Confirmed with Link: Wings Buy Out Final 3 Years of Weiss' Contract

[WingedWheel1987]

"There's no bigger fan of Dan Cleary than Mike Babcock"

-Mike Babcock

Ken Holland only signs players he wants too.

He is also the GM of the DRW. He never had an issue ignoring Babcock's requests before Cleary.

 

[Flowah]

I am certain this will be a huge waste. 6 seasons of cap space down the drain for no good reason. Weiss should have been given a shot under Blashill. This was a dumb move.

I'm sure Holland had to have consulted Blash about that. "Do you think you'll use Weiss at all?"

How do you not even consult a coach before making a move like that?

 

[Frk It]

I'm sure Holland had to have consulted Blash about that. "Do you think you'll use Weiss at all?"

How do you not even consult a coach before making a move like that?

Or maybe Blash said he wants more flexibility to potentially use Larkin or Athanasiou, because he knows them and they're good players.

 

[LMTD]

At least we save 3+mil in cap space. There was a log jam in forwards anyways.

 

[Flowah]

Or maybe Blash said he wants more flexibility to potentially use Larkin or Athanasiou, because he knows them and they're good players.

Exactly. Point being I'm 99% sure Holland talked to Blash about it beforehand and Blash said he was unlikely to use Weiss. Maybe because he doesn't see Weiss as useful or maybe because he likes Larkin and AA more. Either way, I don't think Holland buys him out unless he knows they're probably not using him.

 

[obey86]

But you'd have to pay his full 4.9 this year against the cap in addition to whatever the payouts were in those 4 years of dead cap and it would clear a roster spot at forward, allegedly for a cheap prospect replacement there.

I don't remember where all the good calcs are, but what happened means Weiss will count against the cap for 9.8 mil spread out over 2015-2021. If they waited a year he'd count for 11.4 mil spread out over 2015-2021.

Am I messing that up?



Huge? I think that's a little extreme. We're really talking about 1.6ish mil in years 5 and 6, yes? Assuming the cap continues to rise, that's pretty much a league minimum contract and I think it's actually less in terms of total cap dollars to buy him out now.

Who cares? If the Wings don't use that extra cap space this season it doesn't matter. That's the point.

If they use the extra space with a FA signing, then fine, I have no problem buying Weiss out this year. Time will tell.

 

[abbbaron]

Babcock is part of the organizational meetings. He certainly has an idea of what players he wants well before July 1st. The Wings wen't right out and signed Weiss before Flip signed with TB. Why? Because that was the player they had already decided to pursue. There is nothing inconvenient about that point.

Yeah there is. So help me put the pieces together: Holland makes Filppula at least a couple "substantial" offers, during the season and in the run up to FA day-- so that was against Babcock's wishes??? Or did Babcock want Filppula in addition to Weiss? Otherwise it was Babcock, and as you stated earlier Babcock alone, who had been trying to get management to trade for Weiss (because Babcock long identified Weiss from a mile away, across organizations, as his type of guy...)

That's Babcock being told that Weiss is not the player he wants, doesn't have the work ethic or the mentality to fit with the organization and him calling up Weiss and basically saying, "I'm told you're not my guy, are you willing to do what I need you to do." Again that doesn't contradict this narrative at all. Once Weiss got here and basically proved his detractors correct, Babcock threw him under the bus by benching him.

To be clear: this is information based on your inside connection (a sales rep who occasionally has/had contact with the players)? Or is this your interpretation based on what you've seen in the press? If it's the latter, could you by any chance provide a link? I'm looking for a relevant source that was out there at that time, not to what is being peddled now (after the fact Babcock left the organization high and dry)

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

They don't have to use the cap space now on a FA for the cap space to be useful at some point during the season. A little cap flexibility would be a good thing even assuming Holland doesn't spend to the cap, which he usually does.

The six-year buyout makes sense. You gain the certainty of $3.8M in cap space vs. the uncertainty of what Weiss would produce for $4.9M. The difference in cap hit between the two buyout options over the following four years would be about 80K per year ($1.58M vs $1.66M). The final year of cap cost is pushed six years down the road when it will be a smaller percentage of the cap.

 

[Frk It]

They don't have to use the cap space now on a FA for the cap space to be useful at some point during the season. A little cap flexibility would be a good thing even assuming Holland doesn't spend to the cap, which he usually does.

The six-year buyout makes sense. You gain the certainty of $3.8M in cap space vs. the uncertainty of what Weiss would produce for $4.9M. The difference in cap hit between the two buyout options over the following four years would be about 80K per year ($1.58M vs $1.66M). The final year of cap cost is pushed six years down the road when it will be a smaller percentage of the cap.

If we have learned anything these last few years, it's that roster flexibility is hugely important. The roster spot this opens alone to me is worth it's weight in gold, and then the cap room is nice too.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

If we have learned anything these last few years, it's that roster flexibility is hugely important. The roster spot this opens alone to me is worth it's weight in gold, and then the cap room is nice too.

Totally agree Frk. The Wings have three or four veteran contracts that need to be moved out over the next year or two and replaced by RFAs outperforming cheap contracts. Weiss had to go. Franzen on LTIR will open up another spot. Quincey leaving next year would be useful, and at some point they need to move either or both of Howard and Ericsson.

 

[obey86]

They don't have to use the cap space now on a FA for the cap space to be useful at some point during the season. A little cap flexibility would be a good thing even assuming Holland doesn't spend to the cap, which he usually does.

The six-year buyout makes sense. You gain the certainty of $3.8M in cap space vs. the uncertainty of what Weiss would produce for $4.9M. The difference in cap hit between the two buyout options over the following four years would be about 80K per year ($1.58M vs $1.66M). The final year of cap cost is pushed six years down the road when it will be a smaller percentage of the cap.

The Red Wings have had a bunch of unused cap space like 3 out of the last 4 seasons. Barring signing any big free agents I expect more of the same this season.

We likely cleared up cap space for no reason this season, while also increasing the number of years Weiss stays on the Wings cap. If empty cap space carried over and could be used next season like in the NFL then great! But it doesn't. Clearing up that cap space to not use it (which is what will most likely happen) or sign Dan Cleary is simply dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.

 

[Fugu]

There are some needs on the roster that they currently cannot really fill from their prospect pool, namely that #1D, and a bonafide center/forward (what Weiss was supposed to be).

I would only get frustrated with Holland if he says he's going to be very aggressive and serious, and then pulls up short because everyone else is willing to pay more. It's not really a market he can set or control. You're either in or you shouldn't bother going to the show.

I'm not sure what his bargain bin shopping has accomplished in these past 2-3 years, and his loyalty program needs another overhaul-- because it did not improve the team.

Hi, HiHD!

 

[Henkka]

This is kind of favourite thread right now.