GDT: Wings @ Avs | Mantha looks to be back in | Howard starts

[Heaton]

Click to read more...

 

[Mister Ed]

Practice is getting intense :

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Practice is getting intense :

Cue "What the hell, it's just practice, why are you trying to hurt Mantha!" cries from the fanbase.

And also, why don't you level Sheahan?

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

What the hell, it's just practice, why are you trying to hurt Mantha?!

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Why doesn't Sheahan level?!

Aw I screwed it up

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Why doesn't Sheahan level?!

Aw I screwed it up

Haha I love it.

And Sheahan doesn't level because he's not grinding enough. He needs to fight in the corners and throw body checks and then maybe he can get some experience.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Practice is getting intense :

Maybe the boys are teaching Mantha a lesson on his compete level. What if Blashill was right all along about Mantha and the vets are letting it known that if you don't play the way coach wants you to play, there will be consequences.

 

[njx9]

Maybe the boys are teaching Mantha a lesson on his compete level. What if Blashill was right all along about Mantha and the vets are letting it known that if you don't play the way coach wants you to play, there will be consequences.

Honestly, I don't think that's far-fetched, but it seems... problematic if it's only being addressed now, with 15 games left. I don't mean to knock Z, because his compete level (and ability) have been amazing this year, but I'm starting to wonder if there's any leadership at all in the locker room. A guy shouldn't be getting to the point of getting his clock cleaned by Mike Green with 15 games left, just to send a message.

Then again, maybe it's just frustration boiling over. I can't imagine it's easy for Mike Green to give it his all night after night, at this point.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Honestly, I don't think that's far-fetched, but it seems... problematic if it's only being addressed now, with 15 games left. I don't mean to knock Z, because his compete level (and ability) have been amazing this year, but I'm starting to wonder if there's any leadership at all in the locker room. A guy shouldn't be getting to the point of getting his clock cleaned by Mike Green with 15 games left, just to send a message.

Then again, maybe it's just frustration boiling over. I can't imagine it's easy for Mike Green to give it his all night after night, at this point.

Mantha has been getting a talking to by Z all the time. Don't you remember the articles about the first scratch? Z has already told him his compete level isn't good enough. If it's not sinking in with words, then you smash his ass.

 

[DanZ]

Honestly, I don't think that's far-fetched, but it seems... problematic if it's only being addressed now, with 15 games left. I don't mean to knock Z, because his compete level (and ability) have been amazing this year, but I'm starting to wonder if there's any leadership at all in the locker room. A guy shouldn't be getting to the point of getting his clock cleaned by Mike Green with 15 games left, just to send a message.

Then again, maybe it's just frustration boiling over. I can't imagine it's easy for Mike Green to give it his all night after night, at this point.

I mean, it's not just about the season, it's about his career. If Green and Zetterberg are still working their ***** off every night then so should a rookie. He hasn't earned anything.

I think it'd be more frustrating for Green to work his ass off every night with no hope of the playoffs but watch a rookie half ass it. I don't pretend to know what's actually going on though, but I think it's a valid theory and one that shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Maybe the boys are teaching Mantha a lesson on his compete level. What if Blashill was right all along about Mantha and the vets are letting it known that if you don't play the way coach wants you to play, there will be consequences.

Honestly, that's exactly what it sounds like. When was the last time Mike Green levelled anyone in a game? So to do it in practise, against a rookie who's just been scratched for two games because of his compete level...?

 

[TheOtherOne]

My favorite part was when he said "uh I dunno yet if I'm back in" and we wrote articles about it and titled them "Mantha probably not back in!"

 

[njx9]

Mantha has been getting a talking to by Z all the time. Don't you remember the articles about the first scratch? Z has already told him his compete level isn't good enough. If it's not sinking in with words, then you smash his ass.

I do, and I understand needing to shake a guy up, sometimes. But I think doing it with 15 games left in a season that's long since lost isn't effective. At this point, I don't think it's 'teaching' so much as 'punishing', and I don't think that's an effective way to get a guy to compete. Had someone punched him in the mouth in December (or maybe even January), for instance, I could buy it as a wake up call.

Edit: At this point, I feel like he's looking at his production compared to nearly everyone else's, and thinking 'why am I busting my ass on a loser team, where the losers still get more ice time than I do, no matter how bad they are at hockey?' I don't think scratching him changes that mindset. And I don't think knocking the crap out him in practice changes that mindset, at this point. Maybe nothing changes it and we need to decide if his production is more important, or if we need to trade him. I still think holding *everyone* accountable is more effective, even if it pisses off some of the lifers and does little to effectively change the team's current trajectory. At least then we're not just picking the only two guys who seem capable of playing offense at an NHL level, post-Z.

 

[DanZ]

I do, and I understand needing to shake a guy up, sometimes. But I think doing it with 15 games left in a season that's long since lost isn't effective. At this point, I don't think it's 'teaching' so much as 'punishing', and I don't think that's an effective way to get a guy to compete. Had someone punched him in the mouth in December (or maybe even January), for instance, I could buy it as a wake up call.

At this point, the Wings should already be focused on next season and beyond. I don't see any problem with reminding Mantha that he needs to up his compete level before summer training begins. Letting a lazy attitude​ set in at this point is the last thing they should be doing. The team needs to focus on getting better and preparing for next year, and that starts with attitude.

 

[njx9]

At this point, the Wings should already be focused on next season and beyond. I don't see any problem with reminding Mantha that he needs to up his compete level before summer training begins. Letting a lazy attitude​ set in at this point is the last thing they should be doing. The team needs to focus on getting better and preparing for next year, and that starts with attitude.

I totally get that sentiment, but I don't think that's the message he's going to get. Hopefully I'm wrong, and it gets through as intended.

 

[jkutswings]

I do, and I understand needing to shake a guy up, sometimes. But I think doing it with 15 games left in a season that's long since lost isn't effective. At this point, I don't think it's 'teaching' so much as 'punishing', and I don't think that's an effective way to get a guy to compete. Had someone punched him in the mouth in December (or maybe even January), for instance, I could buy it as a wake up call.

Edit: At this point, I feel like he's looking at his production compared to nearly everyone else's, and thinking 'why am I busting my ass on a loser team, where the losers still get more ice time than I do, no matter how bad they are at hockey?' I don't think scratching him changes that mindset. And I don't think knocking the crap out him in practice changes that mindset, at this point. Maybe nothing changes it and we need to decide if his production is more important, or if we need to trade him. I still think holding *everyone* accountable is more effective, even if it pisses off some of the lifers and does little to effectively change the team's current trajectory. At least then we're not just picking the only two guys who seem capable of playing offense at an NHL level, post-Z.

Agree 100 percent. Screw the veterans; EVERYBODY should be accountable...even if that sometimes leads to a very ugly roster due to healthy scratches.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem particularly healthy to let the vets take it out on Mantha. Everybody has played poorly at times, and it damn sure isn't Mantha's fault that they missed the playoffs. It comes across like they're holding Mantha to some ridiculous standard that they don't hold anybody else to, and that includes Larkin.

 

[Winger98]

Agree 100 percent. Screw the veterans; EVERYBODY should be accountable...even if that sometimes leads to a very ugly roster due to healthy scratches.

accountable for what, though? By nearly all accounts the issue with Mantha isn't screwing up, it's effort. Do you think Helm is dogging it out there? Or Gator? Most of these guys aren't dogging it, they just suck.

 

[SirloinUB]

I do, and I understand needing to shake a guy up, sometimes. But I think doing it with 15 games left in a season that's long since lost isn't effective. At this point, I don't think it's 'teaching' so much as 'punishing', and I don't think that's an effective way to get a guy to compete. Had someone punched him in the mouth in December (or maybe even January), for instance, I could buy it as a wake up call.

Edit: At this point, I feel like he's looking at his production compared to nearly everyone else's, and thinking 'why am I busting my ass on a loser team, where the losers still get more ice time than I do, no matter how bad they are at hockey?' I don't think scratching him changes that mindset. And I don't think knocking the crap out him in practice changes that mindset, at this point. Maybe nothing changes it and we need to decide if his production is more important, or if we need to trade him. I still think holding *everyone* accountable is more effective, even if it pisses off some of the lifers and does little to effectively change the team's current trajectory. At least then we're not just picking the only two guys who seem capable of playing offense at an NHL level, post-Z.

With all due respect, the problem here is that you (and not just you) are evaluating this situation based on how you feel and how you imagine Mantha may feel.

It's a whole lot of conjecture and very little substance. Is it really crazy to think that Blashill's first hand knowledge of the situation actually validates his decisions? Or at least is more validating than the random thoughts of people who do not know Mantha? Is it really crazy to think that Mantha (while not pleased) is taking this all in stride?

Personally, the actions of the coach who has interacted with the player are far more revealing to the situation than my theoretical feelings.

I don't mean to be a buzzkil to conversation but armchair coaching is a pet peeve of mine. There is so much more going on in a dressing room that influences these type of decision than what we are privy to.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

accountable for what, though? By nearly all accounts the issue with Mantha isn't screwing up, it's effort. Do you think Helm is dogging it out there? Or Gator? Most of these guys aren't dogging it, they just suck.

But isn't low effort success better than high effort failure, in the grand scheme of problems to be addressed?

 

[ricky0034]

With all due respect, the problem here is that you (and not just you) are evaluating this situation based on how you feel and how you imagine Mantha may feel.

It's a whole lot of conjecture and very little substance. Is it really crazy to think that Blashill's first hand knowledge of the situation actually validates his decisions? Or at least is more validating than the random thoughts of people who do not know Mantha? Is it really crazy to think that Mantha (while not pleased) is taking this all in stride?

Personally, the actions of the coach who has interacted with the player are far more revealing to the situation than my theoretical feelings.

I don't mean to be a buzzkil to conversation but armchair coaching is a pet peeve of mine. There is so much more going on in a dressing room that influences these type of decision than what we are privy to.

maybe if Blashill had shown the slightest bit of competence at any point this season people would give him the benefit of the doubt but he hasn't remotely earned that with all the stupid decisions he's made

if anything at this point it feels like the team needs one of these with Blashill's name on it

 

[Frk It]

Mantha is playing, so not sure why this discussion is continuing.

Ready for this season to be over, just give me my top 10 pick already.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But isn't low effort success better than high effort failure, in the grand scheme of problems to be addressed?

Absolutely not. At least not at the player level. That's a Ken Holland problem. He needs to bring in the players who have success and high effort. Basically, it is the exact opposite of what you're saying. The Wings need to have a team that busts their ass and is a ***** to play against. Then you bring in the big time talent and you're a powerhouse again (over time, of course)

The most consistent way to be successful in hockey is to bust your ass and outwork the guy across from you. Anything else, you're relying on fortune.

In other sports, look at San Antonio. Look at New England. You never have effort problems there, because you know that the coach and the best players are going to tear you a new one if you slack.

You hate a guy like Dan Cleary for playing past his expiration date... but a guy like that (not Cleary himself because he's got no knees) would do wonders for this team. A guy who will kill himself on the ice to make a play.

Hell, Yzerman was so great late in his career because he had a grinder's heart but still had his soft hands and hockey IQ.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Mantha is playing, so not sure why this discussion is continuing.

Ready for this season to be over, just give me my top 10 pick already.

Same. Although given the schedule the Wings see down the stretch, I'm praying it's a top 10 pick. I think it could be even later than that.

 

[njx9]

With all due respect, the problem here is that you (and not just you) are evaluating this situation based on how you feel and how you imagine Mantha may feel.

It's a whole lot of conjecture and very little substance. Is it really crazy to think that Blashill's first hand knowledge of the situation actually validates his decisions? Or at least is more validating than the random thoughts of people who do not know Mantha? Is it really crazy to think that Mantha (while not pleased) is taking this all in stride?

Personally, the actions of the coach who has interacted with the player are far more revealing to the situation than my theoretical feelings.

I don't mean to be a buzzkil to conversation but armchair coaching is a pet peeve of mine. There is so much more going on in a dressing room that influences these type of decision than what we are privy to.

No, I think that's absolutely a fair criticism. I can only go off of what I've found in coaching and playing sports, and none of that includes any direct knowledge of the Red Wings locker room. That said, I think it's fair to look at the Wings season and conclude that Blashill is not a particularly good hockey coach, and I think it's fair to question his decision making on that basis.

I also think it's a bit useless, in the context of a message board, to say "the coach/organization/GM/whatever knows best!" because it's basically a way of shutting down any non-conforming discussion. I think everyone here, in general, knows that no one has direct knowledge. That doesn't mean we're also not occasionally right or that there isn't interesting discussion to be had.