Post-Game Talk: Wings 6, Pens 3 - Screw the Positive

[Sidney the Kidney]

The blind spinning cross-ice backhand pass into traffic from Kunitz in the NZ last night is exactly the sort of veteran play Guentzel needs to be watching and emulating.

I haven't seen him attempt that once, let alone consistently.

Guentzel also has to master the Tanner Glass-inspired "finish your check 3 seconds after the defenseman has already passed the puck" forecheck that Kunitz employs.

Might not actually do much to affect the game, but boy does it look good on the stat sheet in the hits column!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Guentzel also has to master the Tanner Glass-inspired "finish your check 3 seconds after the defenseman has already passed the puck" forecheck that Kunitz employs.

Might not actually do much to affect the game, but boy does it look good on the stat sheet in the hits column!

That's the kind of physical play we need that Guentzel simply can't provide.

 

[66-30-33]

We don't need them to be elite every night. But they have to and can be much, much better than they've been lately, and they're mostly struggling now because of ****-poor roster and line decisions.

Go with this roster last night:

Sheary - Crosby - Horny
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Guentzel - Bonino - Rust
Wilson - Cullen - Kuhn

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Ruhwedel -Daley

Murray

...and I'm convinced we win.

Sullivan can't control who we trade for to improve the roster. He can control who he plays and where they play. He's failing on that front.

Hmmm, what about swapping Cullen and Bonino? That 3rd line becomes really fast then and Cullen/Rust work well together.

 

[Penske]

We don't need them to be elite every night. But they have to and can be much, much better than they've been lately, and they're mostly struggling now because of ****-poor roster and line decisions.

Go with this roster last night:

Sheary - Crosby - Horny
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Guentzel - Bonino - Rust
Wilson - Cullen - Kuhn

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Ruhwedel -Daley

Murray

...and I'm convinced we win.

Sullivan can't control who we trade for to improve the roster. He can control who he plays and where they play. He's failing on that front.

Without any trades this is our best line up (with Dumo coming in obviously when fit)

 

[Fordy]

I think the idea that they can play 82 games at the same tempo with the same urgency and same effectiveness as they played in the playoffs last year is leading to unrealistic expectations. You just can't play a high pressure forechecking 200-foot game every night at a high level for an entire season. I also think if they were getting reasonable goaltending from Fleury (or if they'd just play Murray when he's healthy), many of these "problems" wouldn't be noticed.

As for the defensive personnel, I think you're contradicting yourself. Yes, I guess if the forwards are dominating possession at an elite level every night and you're getting .930 SV% goaltending every night, the personnel is adequate. But if the forward and goaltending aren't elite every night, the defense gets exposed. I truly don't get how anyone watches Daley and Maatta play every night and says "yep, we're good here."

i agree, but they are not showing me that they are capable of it right now

i think we're good here because they did it once already. elite posssesion is what the team requires to function as it's constructed. get that and i think that save percentage follows and that the d will return to 2016

 

[MrBrightside]

We don't need them to be elite every night. But they have to and can be much, much better than they've been lately, and they're mostly struggling now because of ****-poor roster and line decisions.

Go with this roster last night:

Sheary - Crosby - Horny
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Guentzel - Bonino - Rust
Wilson - Cullen - Kuhn

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Ruhwedel -Daley

Murray

...and I'm convinced we win.

Sullivan can't control who we trade for to improve the roster. He can control who he plays and where they play. He's failing on that front.

And I'm fine with that. But at the same time, I think that 3rd pairing would get eaten alive and I've never like Maatta with Letang.

 

[Pancakes]

i guess you can look at the scores and say the pens have no problem scoring goals. but they do. pucks are going in but they are not going in the right way, as a result of extended pressure and possession that wears down the other team. they scored 3 or 4 goals last night. and no point were they the right type of goals to or a result of the right kind of play. the right kind of play is where the other team can barely get a hold of the puck, and when they do, they're already tired. they fight to get up ice on one play to every five of ours, and then the exact players we have on D right now can be confident and make the simple play, and either take it away, block the shot, or give up one that ends up in murray's chest and get a faceoff. win it and start again

kunitz prevents this from happening. fleury prevents this from happening. these lines prevent this from happening. the current D personnel would look like geniuses if this is the situation they were in. the complaints would vanish. i know this because this is what happened in the playoffs. it's really that simple. getting back to this requires guentzel coming up and a forward trade. D is a bonus at that point. i have faith in the players on D they have now, once healthy and in the right situation. offense is more important. sorry to say it, it is pure short sightedness or black and white thinking to say the pens gave up too many goals therefore plug in a better dman. there's no nuance to that and i don't believe you understand the team and obviously missed out on the cup run. "we score enough goals we need better D", i have no respect for that opinion and it's the kind of nonsense people said when sid and geno carried bylsma's teams around. it's dumb. the problems are up front

and i mean be real if you're in here defending kunitz in the middle of all this something is wrong with you

An overwhelmingly good attack won us the Cup last year so I'm definitely not opposed to adding a Duchene or a Landeskog or whomever so that we can obliterate teams with wave after wave.

Having said that the only forwards that bother me right now are Bonino, Kunitz, and Fehr. Everyone else is having a good year. I'd like a bit more scoring out of Hags but he does such a ridiculous amount off the puck that he's still invaluable even when he isn't scoring.

Personally I'm of the opinion that we can't go wrong either way with trade acquisitions. A good dman would undoubtedly help. So would a good forward. JR can't really lose. This isn't a team like those Bylsma teams where our depth was so awful up front that we were doomed if we didn't fix that. It's more of a situation where a good trade is going to put us over the top but if we do nothing or get someone who doesn't fit well we still might win the Cup because this team has that kind of depth and talent built up on it now and has finally a real goalie.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And I'm fine with that. But at the same time, I think that 3rd pairing would get eaten alive and I've never like Maatta with Letang.

It's not ideal, but it's about the best we can do without Dumo.

I'm a big proponent of doing everything we can with what we have before we start making trades to address problems that are artificially magnified by poor line-up decisions.

 

[Shrimper]

 

[Fordy]

An overwhelmingly good attack won us the Cup last year so I'm definitely not opposed to adding a Duchene or a Landeskog or whomever so that we can obliterate teams with wave after wave.

Having said that the only forwards that bother me right now are Bonino, Kunitz, and Fehr. Everyone else is having a good year. I'd like a bit more scoring out of Hags but he does such a ridiculous amount off the puck that he's still invaluable even when he isn't scoring.

Personally I'm of the opinion that we can't go wrong either way with trade acquisitions. A good dman would undoubtedly help. So would a good forward. JR can't really lose. This isn't a team like those Bylsma teams where our depth was so awful up front that we were doomed if we didn't fix that. It's more of a situation where a good trade is going to put us over the top but if we do nothing or get someone who doesn't fit well we still might win the Cup because this team has that kind of depth and talent built up on it now and has finally a real goalie.

agreed on all counts. it's the coaches getting them into the right spots that seems to be such an issue

 

[ncm7772]

I'll just briefly touch on the line combo issues. There are plenty, but I'll just address the one that irritates me the most. Unless there's something behind the scenes we don't know about, why isn't Hornqvist with Sid? I realize Hornqvist has struggled this year numbers wise, but Crosby was scoring, like a lot, when they were paired. Rust gets promoted to the top line (not meant to give Rust any grief, cause I think he's played well), now Sid hasn't scored in five games and honestly, hasn't looked very good during that stretch. At least in my opinion. Crosby and Rust simply don't mesh. And I'm completely ok with Rust staying on Malkin's line.

 

[Penske]

I'll just briefly touch on the line combo issues. There are plenty, but I'll just address the one that irritates me the most. Unless there's something behind the scenes we don't know about, why isn't Hornqvist with Sid? I realize Hornqvist has struggled this year numbers wise, but Crosby was scoring, like a lot, when they were paired. Rust gets promoted to the top line (not meant to give Rust any grief, cause I think he's played well), now Sid hasn't scored in five games and honestly, hasn't looked very good during that stretch. At least in my opinion. Crosby and Rust simply don't mesh. And I'm completely ok with Rust staying on Malkin's line.

The question we all want to know. Put him back with Sid!

Hornqvist actually isn't struggling numbers wise. He's on track for over 50 points and over 20 goals which is generally what he always gets.

He's getting more on the PP and a little less at even strength this season but that shouldn't be too much of a concern. His S% at even strength is the worst in his career by far so if that corrects itself he'll put up career best numbers (which he might do anyway).

The important thing as you said is to get him back with Sid. They've never not been good and I get we need to experiment with lines but let's get the right lines back together. That's pretty important especially with our D injuries.

 

[Tender Rip]

This is obviously all about management putting the breaks on the team so as to be able to overwhelm everyone again.... and also to try for the 4th spot and a road through the Atlantic division.

That's all it is. Guentzel over Kunitz and meaningfull lines would jeopardize this severely. Kunitz will be traded at the deadline, but to retain a shot at 4th in the division, we will call up Porter instead of Guentz .

 

[Whale Mingo]

We're just a little panicy here, aren't we?

Teams have lost three in a row before and not dissolved the franchise. I just double checked the calendar and it's January, remain calm.


Wait, I just double double checked and we currently have the longest losing streak in the league. Return to your normally scheduled panic. The sky is actually falling and the team is moving to KC, we are all getting Rhinovirus and Kunitz is signing a 5 year deal.

Repent, the end is near (but it does have warm cookies).

 

[DegenX]

Game day, so let's move the discussion to the All-Purpose thread.