Henault has 0 ppg. Had 3 goals one game and a pathetic plus 1 on such a high powered offensive team. Ribau 3 and Renwick 2 goals could easily match Henaults output if given the same ice time. We need a true hard shot D for the power play. Henault passes as hard as he shoots. Just calling it the way I see it. He takes stupid untimely penalities and pinches with the same recklessness when we are tied or already ahead. He be my first on the trade block for sure. Speaking if trades, sell ok but for younger players or future picks. Buying in this unknown environment with the season possibly at jeopardy with Covid and you risk paying for someone who may play very little at the end of the day. Don't want to be in that situation. Now that the NHL is postponing cross border games the Ohl won't be far behind.
Windsor Spitfires 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 3)
- Thread starter EON
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Yeah u can watch him pinch all game long n them scrabble to get back on defence..
Teflon
Registered User
- Jan 6, 2018
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Funny I agree with parts of both your sides Faub and legend. I build for next year without giving up this year. I keep Macdonald tho. I think he’s an OA next year. Cuylie goes but it’s gotta be a great trade. I must have at least 1 stud D man for the future and a combo of 2nds and 3rds. I move all 3 OA guys if there’s a decent return. If I keep 1 it’s Damico. That said he needs a fire lit under his ass. Goalies… short of a guy I KNOW is better I ride with X until it’s go time next year and he really isn’t getting it done. I’ve said all along I like these forwards, they need to figure out 60 min of effort but that’s fixable. Blow it up??? No way. Tweak? Your damn right.
Let’s see what transpires, this is a wonky year again, I’m reasonably sure you’ll see a full season and playoffs but I’m no seer, things may change. Don’t know that we will be able to judge until season is over.
Let’s see what transpires, this is a wonky year again, I’m reasonably sure you’ll see a full season and playoffs but I’m no seer, things may change. Don’t know that we will be able to judge until season is over.
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Teflon
I agree with most of your post,especially the McDonald opinion
Don't agree with moving all 3 o/as,just don't see alot of movement in trades this year
As for Cuylle wouldn't deal him either unless like u said it's an outstanding trade.
I am willing to ride with Medina for our goaltending and take things from there.
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OHLTG
Registered User
Wow here we go with selective and misrepresenting figures.
Henault, 5 even strength goals, 3 in 1 game, 2 in 22. It's not like he's potting one every 5 games or so.He was average at best until he was with Corcoran who helped run up his numbers and this year I wonder how many times Johnston has contributed to his offense?
In their last 23 games they are 13 - 7 2 -1. Overall they are 14 - 8 -2 - 2. So in reality they are 13 - 10 in terms of wins and losses with 3 loser points helping them out.
Stop with the I don't give the team credit for improvement, I give them plenty of credit and would suggest that I provide far more balance then probably any other poster. I'm not all sunshine and rainbows using skewed stats to say how great this team is and I'm certainly not all doom and gloom as you try to insuate at times. You tend to paint a very distorted picture of how they're doing.
Until 5 or so games ago the team had one of the worst PKs out there. Today they sit 17th on the PK, still one of the worst overall but yes, they've had 5 games where they've shown some improvement.
They're currently 8th on the PP. Not too bad. For a team that can score at will I would expect better though.
Goals For 4th in the league.
Goals Against 15th in the league.
Now team me, how does +/- work?
Henault with his 23 points is only a +1. So he's been on for at least 22 goals against. Do they count short handed goals in the +/- stat? Right now he's been on for 22% of the goals against the team but that doesn't include goals when they're short handed correct? How many more goals against while he was on the ice on the PK if I am correct about this?
That would make him overall a negative player.
Do the goals scored on the PP count as a plus and the goals against a -?
Baisov vs Peer
1 goal makes someone more of an offensive impact, more of a nose for the net?
Now beyond that single goal Peer does have 18 shots in 15 games versus Baisov's 14 shots in 20 games so he does shoot a bit more. Peer is -6 versus Baisov's +3 so it would appear Baisov has the advantage defensively while Windsor has one of the worst PKs so someone with a higher minus on the PK...
All my point has been in all this is what I've clearly stated, don't waste assets doing a half ass job. I think next year would be better but I can see and support a run this year if they actually commit to doing it right.
It doesn't take a bunch of numbers that have been selectively used to agree or disagree with it.
Has the team improved? Yes. I comment after every game, win or lose and have critiqued and given credit, usually both for every game. The fact that they aren't consistent still from period to period is very telling and adding a single player isn't going to change that.
Henault, 5 even strength goals, 3 in 1 game, 2 in 22. It's not like he's potting one every 5 games or so.He was average at best until he was with Corcoran who helped run up his numbers and this year I wonder how many times Johnston has contributed to his offense?
In their last 23 games they are 13 - 7 2 -1. Overall they are 14 - 8 -2 - 2. So in reality they are 13 - 10 in terms of wins and losses with 3 loser points helping them out.
Stop with the I don't give the team credit for improvement, I give them plenty of credit and would suggest that I provide far more balance then probably any other poster. I'm not all sunshine and rainbows using skewed stats to say how great this team is and I'm certainly not all doom and gloom as you try to insuate at times. You tend to paint a very distorted picture of how they're doing.
Until 5 or so games ago the team had one of the worst PKs out there. Today they sit 17th on the PK, still one of the worst overall but yes, they've had 5 games where they've shown some improvement.
They're currently 8th on the PP. Not too bad. For a team that can score at will I would expect better though.
Goals For 4th in the league.
Goals Against 15th in the league.
Now team me, how does +/- work?
Henault with his 23 points is only a +1. So he's been on for at least 22 goals against. Do they count short handed goals in the +/- stat? Right now he's been on for 22% of the goals against the team but that doesn't include goals when they're short handed correct? How many more goals against while he was on the ice on the PK if I am correct about this?
That would make him overall a negative player.
Do the goals scored on the PP count as a plus and the goals against a -?
Baisov vs Peer
1 goal makes someone more of an offensive impact, more of a nose for the net?
Now beyond that single goal Peer does have 18 shots in 15 games versus Baisov's 14 shots in 20 games so he does shoot a bit more. Peer is -6 versus Baisov's +3 so it would appear Baisov has the advantage defensively while Windsor has one of the worst PKs so someone with a higher minus on the PK...
All my point has been in all this is what I've clearly stated, don't waste assets doing a half ass job. I think next year would be better but I can see and support a run this year if they actually commit to doing it right.
It doesn't take a bunch of numbers that have been selectively used to agree or disagree with it.
Has the team improved? Yes. I comment after every game, win or lose and have critiqued and given credit, usually both for every game. The fact that they aren't consistent still from period to period is very telling and adding a single player isn't going to change that.
Bowler better do his homework.
Not an experienced gm in trades...
Not likely he fleeces any other team...
Cfaub
Windsor is 4th in goals for yes overall but 3rd in goal for per game at 4.23
Kingston is #1 with an average of 4.36,SSM is #2 at 4.34.
Interesting to note after game 4 for SSM, and Kingston Windsor is "#1 at 4.545 in 22 games,both are lower with SSM at 4.36 and Kingston at 4.33.
Should note also Henault only had 3 goals in his 1st 150 games.
Peer started killing penalties after his injury and plus minus numbers are not counted on PPs or PKs.
They have improved in every area from PK to PP, goal scoring, goaltending by starter Medina, it's the reason they have climbed to a tie for 1st and only 3 points away from conference tie.
Those aren't made up facts,improvement from early in the season has been considerable in most areas .
Overall team depth has improved and reflected in the standings,not made up facts but truth.
Early in the season u pretty much gave up on this team,you questioned everything, and in most areas they have proven u wrong,especially goal scoring,goaltending starting goalie I mean (Medina) and standings.
The trades all of 3 them have proven beneficial that's a fact,not a stat.
Have things been perfect, no,name a team in the conference that has,but I gladly will take a 1st place tie at the break,then the early season struggles.
Windsor is 4th in goals for yes overall but 3rd in goal for per game at 4.23
Kingston is #1 with an average of 4.36,SSM is #2 at 4.34.
Interesting to note after game 4 for SSM, and Kingston Windsor is "#1 at 4.545 in 22 games,both are lower with SSM at 4.36 and Kingston at 4.33.
Should note also Henault only had 3 goals in his 1st 150 games.
Peer started killing penalties after his injury and plus minus numbers are not counted on PPs or PKs.
They have improved in every area from PK to PP, goal scoring, goaltending by starter Medina, it's the reason they have climbed to a tie for 1st and only 3 points away from conference tie.
Those aren't made up facts,improvement from early in the season has been considerable in most areas .
Overall team depth has improved and reflected in the standings,not made up facts but truth.
Early in the season u pretty much gave up on this team,you questioned everything, and in most areas they have proven u wrong,especially goal scoring,goaltending starting goalie I mean (Medina) and standings.
The trades all of 3 them have proven beneficial that's a fact,not a stat.
Have things been perfect, no,name a team in the conference that has,but I gladly will take a 1st place tie at the break,then the early season struggles.
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Just a reminder of a offensive quality D Ryan Ellis was + 24 in his worst season and+ 52 in his best. Those were the days but a reminder of how this D will be the weak link in the playoffs especially how teams super tighten things up in the playoffs. Offensive powerhouses, weak defensively usually fail in the playoffs in every league. 1 hot goalie and your summer break comes much sooner. D is and has been the Achilles heel in recent years with this team. It is not only on the players if the coaching staff continues to allow undisciplined play by some. Yes as a team they have dramatically improved the last dozen games but it still needs to be even better if they are going to make a long playoff run.
Because of what you wrote in your last sentence that applies because of the closeness in the conference to every single team not just Windsor, nobody is running away with things.
Just because he’s drafted means nothing. Downey will be back as well. He’s not an upgrade to X
Actually Thornton was not drafted,he was signed as an 18 year old free agent tender invited to training camp,then main camp,quite an accomplishment.
OHLTG
Registered User
Am I a fan of Medina? Yes. Do I think he's improved? Yes. Do I think he can/will be the guy to get us beyond the first round? I'm not convinced. I like his trajectory but he's missed playing time, whether it's for injuries or otherwise, and I'm not sold that he's the right guy for the job long-term. IF you can upgrade the starter, for a reasonable price, I'm not against it. Whether that's Medina/?? or Downey/??, I don't know.
So some I agree with and it'll make you happy and some I agree with and you won't be happy.
First you're right. I was one of the loudest on here when it came to the early season struggles, never have and never will say otherwise. To take it a step further I'm still one of the loudest on here when it comes to the inconsistencies and always will be.
I've always given credit not just for their statistical improvement but their on ice improvement as well but while they have shown improvements on the ice they have continued to show the same sloppy play and lack of effort that had me screaming about their play for their first 10 games or so. That says to me that this team, as is us just as capable of playing the way they did to start the season as they have these last few games because they still play that way for parts of every game.
Overall they have played better, finally starting to play the way they're capable of yet they still have at least a period almost every game where they come close to blowing the game. There's still a lot of issues hidden by improved stats.
Henault, a PPG D is one goal shy of being a goal against every game. That's not a number one D on what is supposed to be a very good team.
The real question becomes what is he 5 on 5, on the PP and on the PK? Obviously my number is wrong if they don't count +/- on special teams. GF vs GA on each of those would be needed to truly show how many goals he's been on for.
We all will gladly take where they're at over where they could be at the bottom of the conference but I'll ask the same question I did in 2019-20, are they truly contenders or are they pretenders?
They improved over the first half, I agree but how much improvement compared to how many issues they still have? They've cut down on their issues but the same issues still exist. The same players are still here and still at the heart of those issues.
Henault is still a defensive liability and others are still having to cover for him more often than not. That's not good for the team's #1 D.
One last time, don't waste assets on a half ass job. They were in this position in 2019-20 and did nothing one way or the other and we all know what a better team, at least offensively did.
Either in or out.
If they're in then go all in. You can't make decisions on what ifs and quite honestly if they're nervous about what may happen that's another reason to build for next year.
If they're out then move on from the OAs, move on from Medina and move on from Cuylle. Anyone else is debatable when we see who will or won't return. Right now if the plan ends up being to build towards next year then you need to find some 03s/04s who will be the core at that point. You need to develop who you have to make sure they're ready. You need to let Downey and the kids take their lumps and learn from it while also having Tovell there as the sacrificial lamb.
Develop the kids, see who fits and the rest become tradable assets as others come up to take their spots.
Just puck a direction and follow through with it but don't stand still and get nothing either way from the season.
GermanSpitfire
EU Video Scout for McKeen’s
He was signed as a free agent after the draft, actually - which is more impressive than him being a late round pick IMO.
It’s not even an “upgrade” to Medina, he’s insurance in case Medina goes down with injury, covid… whatever.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t have confidence in Downey, he hasn’t shown anything this season. Often losing starts to the third string who hasn’t played well either.
You pickup a guy who can return next season also which is a plus since Medina might not be back and Downey hasn’t given anything to be confident about.
aresknights
Registered User
This is why stats need context. TY
Didn't realize 60% of his even strength goals came in 1 game and 40% in the other 20 or so?
Louka Henault has played 193 games in the OHL to date in 4 seasons he has 8 total goals and 0 goals on the PP in his career
The last year we played he had 39 points but only 1 goal.
He is a +7 for his career, however as a 16 year old in 42 games he was a -5,his next 151 games to present a +12.
U would think, all the times hes in the offense zone instead of playing defense he have more... oh well
Cfaub
Medina has allowed 7 PPG in the 12 games that he has appeared in
4 in his 1st 6 games where he and the team went 1-3-0-2
In his 2nd and last 6 games he allowed 3 PPG in 24 opps,team scored 26 goals and he allowed 10 goals.
Downey in 11 games has allowed 12 PPG,and Tovell in 6 games has allowed 6 PPG
Big difference when Medina has been in goal no question, PK,your best PK guy is your goalie.
Medina has allowed 7 PPG in the 12 games that he has appeared in
4 in his 1st 6 games where he and the team went 1-3-0-2
In his 2nd and last 6 games he allowed 3 PPG in 24 opps,team scored 26 goals and he allowed 10 goals.
Downey in 11 games has allowed 12 PPG,and Tovell in 6 games has allowed 6 PPG
Big difference when Medina has been in goal no question, PK,your best PK guy is your goalie.
Teflon
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- Jan 6, 2018
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So I didn’t say trade them at any cost. Trade them if there any decent offer. RE. Overagers. Legend you know full well both OA D men are liabilities, easily replaceable bodies. Both were hoped to be a big part of this teams success. Neither are that. Damico may have upside if someone can get him back on his game. The stats don’t hold water in hockey, way more to a hockey player, something your also well aware of. Your a cheerleader we all know it but please temper your stats. They can be manipulated any number of ways we all know that too. Stats don’t work as well in hockey, way more to a hockey player then stats! Dubas is proof of that!!
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aresknights
Registered User
So not really an offensive goal scoring Dman? (take away the Hattie n it's about a goal a year?) TY for highlighting that.
My bad, I thought I saw a post saying he was up there in goal scoring for D for justification his offense was needed.
In response to others saying move him.
Context matters when trying to use stats.
Teflon
As you know I have indicated a willingness to trade Ladd,but not Henault because I don't want to affect the offense on this team,when you are tied for 3rd in league scoring for points you are not easily replaced.
Get Perrott who is better then Ladd offense wise and we are good to go in my opinion.
Won't have to sell the farm to get him.
As you know I have indicated a willingness to trade Ladd,but not Henault because I don't want to affect the offense on this team,when you are tied for 3rd in league scoring for points you are not easily replaced.
Get Perrott who is better then Ladd offense wise and we are good to go in my opinion.
Won't have to sell the farm to get him.
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