Windsor Spitfires 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 3)

[hockeylegend11]

Cfaub

Did you have a weak moment agreeing with me on something lol
I tend to look at whole pictures as opposed to snippets let me give you examples .
Windsor in their last 17 games are 11-4-2, have scored 81 goals and allowed 62 for an average of 4.76 GF per game and 3.65 GA per game,should be noted Medina only played in 6 of them,went 6-0,allowed 10 goals for average of 1.65.
The PP went 19-60 for 31.66% and the PK went 15-76- 80.3% success
As well only 6 players played every game.

Next in the last 12 games,Spits are 8-2-2,GF-58 for an average of 4.83 GF,
GA -45 for average of 3.75 against,should be noted Medina only played 3 of those games,went 3-0 and allowed 3 goals total GA was 1.00
PP went 15-46 for a 32.6% success rate and the PK was 8-46 for a rate of 82% success.
Only 7 players played every game.
Spits went 4-0-1 on the road,in fact
they are 6-0-1 in their last 7 on the road.

Finally the Spits are 6-0-2 in their last 8 games,3-0-1 both home and on the road,Medina played in only 3 of them went 3-0 and allowed 3 goals,1.00 average
Team scored 37 goals for an average of 4.625,Cuylle leading goal scorer missed 4 of them,McDonald 2nd leading scorer has missed the last 2.
Team allowed 27 goals for average of 3.375 per game against.
PP was 9-26 for 34.6% success rate and PK was 5-34 for a success rate of 85.3%
Only 8 players have played every game of the team's last 8.

I point out these numbers out covering many metrics important to all hockey teams ,showing improvement in the most important areas and that overall this team in the last 7 or 8 weeks has performed extremely well under sometimes difficult circumstances.
Have there been instances of poor play yes,but far outweighed by instances of excellent play from the goal on out.
Additions of Ribau, earlier plus Christopoulos and Maillet have stabilized this group moving forward which is why we should focus far more on the positive then the negative because the results overwhelmingly say we should.

 

[aresknights]

I've these stats memorized. Reptition helps my memory as I age.

 

[member 71782]

Cfaub

Did you have a weak moment agreeing with me on something lol
I tend to look at whole pictures as opposed to snippets let me give you examples .
Windsor in their last 17 games are 11-4-2, have scored 81 goals and allowed 62 for an average of 4.76 GF per game and 3.65 GA per game,should be noted Medina only played in 6 of them,went 6-0,allowed 10 goals for average of 1.65.
The PP went 19-60 for 31.66% and the PK went 15-76- 80.3% success
As well only 6 players played every game.

Next in the last 12 games,Spits are 8-2-2,GF-58 for an average of 4.83 GF,
GA -45 for average of 3.75 against,should be noted Medina only played 3 of those games,went 3-0 and allowed 3 goals total GA was 1.00
PP went 15-46 for a 32.6% success rate and the PK was 8-46 for a rate of 82% success.
Only 7 players played every game.
Spits went 4-0-1 on the road,in fact
they are 6-0-1 in their last 7 on the road.

Finally the Spits are 6-0-2 in their 8 games,3-0-1 both home and on the road,Medina played in only 3 of them went 3-0 and allowed 3 goals,1.00 average
Team scored 37 goals for an average of 4.625,Cuylle leading goal scorer missed 4 of them,McDonald 2nd leading scorer has missed the last 2.
Team allowed 27 goals for average of 3.375 per game against.
PP was 9-26 for 34.6% success rate and PK was 5-34 for a success rate of 85.3%
Only 8 players have played every game of the team's last 8.

I point out these numbers out covering many metrics important to all hockey teams ,showing improvement in the most important areas and that overall this team in the last 7 or 8 weeks has performed extremely well under sometimes difficult circumstances.
Have there been instances of poor play yes,but far outweighed by instances of excellent play from the goal on out.
Additions of Ribau, earlier plus Christopoulos and Maillet have stabilized this group moving forward which is why we should focus far more on the positive then the negative because the results overwhelmingly say we should.

I have never disagreed that they are improving, only how you present it.

Might I suggest instead of pulling what might be a random number to some you use a set number and break down your analytics by that same number across the board. Everyone on here knows you look for the most favourable way to break it down which can actually be misleading.

Break down your stats by 5 or 10 games and it will show the progress, possibly in more detail. You were using their last 7 games for somethings, 3 for something else and it changes everytime.

Looking for the most favourable way to present your argument simply shows a change in numbers not really a progression.

It also can show consistency or even inconsistency in how they are playing over the long term and where things changed.

You and I probably agree on more than either of us would admit to.

 

[hockeylegend11]

I've these stats memorized. Reptition helps my memory as I age.

I am going to test you aresknights

Lol

 

[hockeylegend11]

Well now that hockey is done for the Western Conference and on to the Christmas break here are the playoff
matches as of now
1-Guelph at home vs Sarnia 8
2-Soo at home vs Kitchener 7
3- London hosts Owen Sound 6
4- Windsor hosts Flint 5

9- Saginaw and 10- are on the outside
looking in.
Must admit prior to season I thought Flint and Saginaw would be bottom feeders,with Erie 8th
The top 4 don't surprise me,though I had Guelph 4th.
Should note there is only 4 point difference between Guelph (36) and Windsor (32) 4th,Windsor tied with Soo,London with 35 points trails Guelph.

 

[windsor7]

Well now that hockey is done for the Western Conference and on to the Christmas break here are the playoff
matches as of now
1-Guelph at home vs Sarnia 8
2-Soo at home vs Kitchener 7
3- London hosts Owen Sound 6
4- Windsor hosts Flint 5

9- Saginaw and 10- are on the outside
looking in.
Must admit prior to season I thought Flint and Saginaw would be bottom feeders,with Erie 8th
The top 4 don't surprise me,though I had Guelph 4th.
Should note there is only 4 point difference between Guelph (36) and Windsor (32) 4th,Windsor tied with Soo,London with 35 points trails Guelph.

Curious which gm makes moves or sits idle...

 

[tomschman]

Well now that hockey is done for the Western Conference and on to the Christmas break here are the playoff
matches as of now
1-Guelph at home vs Sarnia 8
2-Soo at home vs Kitchener 7
3- London hosts Owen Sound 6
4- Windsor hosts Flint 5

9- Saginaw and 10- are on the outside
looking in.
Must admit prior to season I thought Flint and Saginaw would be bottom feeders,with Erie 8th
The top 4 don't surprise me,though I had Guelph 4th.
Should note there is only 4 point difference between Guelph (36) and Windsor (32) 4th,Windsor tied with Soo,London with 35 points trails Guelph.

Only Erie is not in the tight pack. Anyone else can go from 1st to 9th in a couple of weeks or vice versa. This season is extremely interesting. In the OHL, the season starts for real on January 10. That will be very true this year.

Sometimes I question if it worth trying to trade certain players. All of our OAs are decent players. I have seen stated on these boards that we would get maybe a 5th and a 10th for them. I wouldn't trade any of them for anything less than a 4th. I say this because how often does a 5th rounder or lower become an impact player in this league. While I still think that next year will be our better year, I would like to see this team finish top 4 and (dare I say) win a playoff series.

 

[aresknights]

I am going to test you aresknights

Lol

Ya, no test needed, after seeing the same selective #s 300 times, I get ur attempt at educating the masses in doing it
And I would pass your test easy. And would know the questions before ya sent them. Pretty easy to predict me thinks.

 

[member 71782]

Only Erie is not in the tight pack. Anyone else can go from 1st to 9th in a couple of weeks or vice versa. This season is extremely interesting. In the OHL, the season starts for real on January 10. That will be very true this year.

Sometimes I question if it worth trying to trade certain players. All of our OAs are decent players. I have seen stated on these boards that we would get maybe a 5th and a 10th for them. I wouldn't trade any of them for anything less than a 4th. I say this because how often does a 5th rounder or lower become an impact player in this league. While I still think that next year will be our better year, I would like to see this team finish top 4 and (dare I say) win a playoff series.

Now if I had posted about no impact players drafted in the 5th rnd or later Legend and OHLTG would have been all over me.

Tyler Angle 6th rnd 2016

Louka Henault 5th rnd 2017
Daniel D'Amico 6th rnd 2017
Jordan Frasca 7th rnd 2017

Then others they would bring up

Andrew Yogan 5th rnd 2007
Ron Soucie 6th rnd 2007
Kenny Ryan 7th rnd 2007

Jack Campbell 6th rnd 2008
Patrick Murphy 14th rnd 2008
Saverio Posa 15th rnd 2008

John Bowen 7th rnd 2010
Ty Bilcke 8th rnd 2010

I'm sure there's others I've missed and I'll agree some are debatable.

 

[Teflon]

Damn lots of chatter here. Legend when did you decide moving X is a good thing?? No way I move him for anyone, other than something crazy, this year unless I’m going for it this year. And no I’m not trading backup for backup. Won’t know Downeys upside for a bit yet.
Trades? I’ve said me peace there.
5th rnd on down are mostly trade bait picks, you move your OA players and put the picks you get back in the trade cupboard.
For Cuylie I need a high end D prospect and a blend of 2-3 picks. Only if it ain’t all in this year.
I’m not moving guys I expect back next year.
I believe covid impacts this year further but only for a brief time. If u push deadline back you need to push season back as well.
I said at the start after the hire of Savard, this year will tell us what Bowler is made of and what ownership is really up to. Seen nothing to change my opinion of either at this point. Like the 2 additions so far but that’s minor stuff.

 

[tomschman]

Now if I had posted about no impact players drafted in the 5th rnd or later Legend and OHLTG would have been all over me.

Tyler Angle 6th rnd 2016

Louka Henault 5th rnd 2017
Daniel D'Amico 6th rnd 2017
Jordan Frasca 7th rnd 2017

Then others they would bring up

Andrew Yogan 5th rnd 2007
Ron Soucie 6th rnd 2007
Kenny Ryan 7th rnd 2007

Jack Campbell 6th rnd 2008
Patrick Murphy 14th rnd 2008
Saverio Posa 15th rnd 2008

John Bowen 7th rnd 2010
Ty Bilcke 8th rnd 2010

I'm sure there's others I've missed and I'll agree some are debatable.

Take that number and divide by the total number of picks over those years and look at the percentage and my point is made. Is giving up an OA from this team worth that small percentage of future value. Also of note, 2 of the players listed Campbell and Ryan came here when the Spits were the place to be for US players. That no longer seems to be the case. In addition, did either or both of those players receive any illegal enticements to come to Windsor. I have always suspected yeas for at least one.

My point being if we keep our OAs, we might be able to win a playoff series. If we trade them and get 3 5ths, we might get one player that will be useful in the future. However, those players will not be useful next year. The type of players we want to trade for for next year won't be obtained by retrading those 5ths.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Yeah, Windsor’s goaltending has been solidified since Medina returned. The only move I possibly make is for Anson Thornton - shipping Downey the other way as someone said earlier. Medina has been inconsistent and Downey, although being the top goalie drafted in 2020, hasn’t played like it and getting a goalie for a run this year and next would be real smart.

I think you sell Cuylle if you’re able to get a solid return. A run next year is probably Windsor’s best bet but with the uncertainty of everything it may be a buyers market so it might just make more sense to keep Cuylle.

If you keep Cuylle though you need to work on the defence in some capacity. There isn’t many great defenders set to be available so hopefully Bowler gets creative in order to save picks for next year. Mintyukov is a pipe dream but he would be the perfect guy to bring in since he will be back for next season.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Yeah, Windsor’s goaltending has been solidified since Medina returned. The only move I possibly make is for Anson Thornton - shipping Downey the other way as someone said earlier. Medina has been inconsistent and Downey, although being the top goalie drafted in 2020, hasn’t played like it and getting a goalie for a run this year and next would be real smart.

I think you sell Cuylle if you’re able to get a solid return. A run next year is probably Windsor’s best bet but with the uncertainty of everything it may be a buyers market so it might just make more sense to keep Cuylle.

If you keep Cuylle though you need to work on the defence in some capacity. There isn’t many great defenders set to be available so hopefully Bowler gets creative in order to save picks for next year. Mintyukov is a pipe dream but he would be the perfect guy to bring in since he will be back for next season.

Solid post agree with most of what you
posted,as I mentioned before I would like to pick up a dman ie Perrott or Xhekag ,and you are right the Russian D from Saginaw probably not available.
Guess we will see.

 

[EnjoytheO]

What’s with everyone wanting Thorton? Downey is every bit as good and X is even better. If Bowler sells X it’s for future consideration and we should run Downey.

 

[member 71782]

If Bowler is not all in you don't move Downey, especially in what appears to be a depressed market for another back up that in all likelyhood Sarnia has to move.

To bring Thornton here, at the cost of Downey plus to start off backing up Medina makes even less sense.

To top it off people want to spend a fortune on a backup goaltender but do little to nothing else? The last move a contender would make if they have assets left over is adding a backup goaltender and people want this to be the first move and in some cases the only move?

If it's a move for next year fine, deal Medina so he replaces your starter and you maximize Medina's value now instead of discounting it when he's an OA and you still have an unproven starter.

 

[hockeylegend11]

My overall preference would be to pickup 1D not 2 ,preferably Perrott from Owen Sound,keep and run Medina,not move Henault or Downey, trade Ladd and away we go.
This team has proven in the 1st 3rd of the season that they can score,Wyatt Johnston 4th in league scoring, now one of the best players in league and ride things moving forward.
No help needed in goal if running with Medina, scoring at will,only 1 D needed.
Worry about next year,after this season.
Right now offense is their best game with Medina in goal, get 1 D,to play 25 minutes Perrott perfect for the job imao.

 

[member 71782]

My overall preference would be to pickup 1D not 2 ,preferably Perrott from Owen Sound,keep and run Medina,not move Henault or Downey, trade Ladd and away we go.
This team has proven in the 1st 3rd of the season that they can score,Wyatt Johnston 4th in league scoring, now one of the best players in league and ride things moving forward.
No help needed in goal if running with Medina, scoring at will,only 1 D needed.
Worry about next year,after this season.
Right now offense is their best game with Medina in goal, get 1 D,to play 25 minutes Perrott perfect for the job imao.

We both know we disagree but those are moves to win the division and not much else.

If you're going to upgrade the D do it right or not at all. Henault and Ladd need to be replaced or sell a few pieces.

Agree offense is what they do best. They've been able to generate a lot of shots and now start scoring on a lot of them yet still capable of losing those high scoring games with Henault and Ladd getting around 30 minutes a night including special teams. That should tell you where their main problem lies.

Johnston is the key to this team's offense, he makes the whole team better and if he goes down so does this team. Adding some insurance to the offense should be a no brainer after upgrading the D.

Like I said, some of these suggestions make no sense when done on their own. This team is in or building towards next year and people want to spend to add one piece when this team is 3 or 4 pieces away then worry about next year when it gets here while intentionally digging a deeper hole for next year and doing nothing to improve their odds of even getting out of the 2nd round.

 

[stips]

I would agree Perrott. would really help in a number of ways. My big concern is they would play him 30 to 35 minutes a game (that's what they did with Corcoran.) That would leave many players upset with their playing time.
Maybe Delmore has good common sense, and could balance playing time, and coach up the defense.

 

[member 71782]

Looking at what this team needs, there's going to be questions whatever they do.

Medina has 8 to 10 good games this year and has run off a half dozen wins in a row or so. An improvement? Yes. A starter on a contender? Remains to be seen but if they want to try to make a run they can't afford to replace him. They gave 5 cards, 4x 2nds, 6x 3rds, 3x 4ths, 1x 5th, 7x 6ths. Prices should be similar or potentially lower than they were in 2019-20 which helps them out unless they go after a McTavish level player.

To make a run this year will use most of those pucks, not all as well as some later ones. They should be able to hang on to most, if not all of their young kids but they need to upgrade all 3 OAs and if they're going all in they should add some insurance up front in case Johnston goes down.

If they're not willing to go all in and are happy with a 2nd round exit there's no need to spend much. Add a D and be done with it. If they stand pat we likely see a repeat of 2019-20 and we'll know this organization has no interest in doing what it takes to win.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Cfaub

Guess we will continue to disagree, u want to go all in,I dont and I seriously wonder if anyone in the league will considering the present conditions and unknown future.
I am willing to add but not willing to mortgage the future.
For Windsor a guy like Perrott the perfect add,good on the PP and offense,that's a bonus to already excellent offensive team,solid on on the D,physical and tough,and that's a real plus defensively, a guy that can 25 minutes per game .
Trading Henault who has the 3rd most points as a D in the league, averaging a point per game,important on the PP,would not have to be used on PK if you get Perrott, that's a win win
makes no sense to me,Henault pairs up with Ribau, Perrott and Sobolev, and Renwick with DeAngilis ,Ride and Jodoin to fill injuries,u can swap out Perrott with DeAngilis, and put Sobolev with Renwick.
Upfront I am expecting improvements from Zito,Abraham, Miedema, D'amico who has 12 points last 12,21 last 22,and Oliver Peer.
I am really happy with 11 of the 12 starting 12 forwards, including the newcomers Christopoulos and Maillet, the 12th one,16 year old Chris O'Flaherty is improving so I stay with him,with Birkett and Jodoin able to come in.
I would probably move on from Baisov despite being only 17,just right now doesn't make the 23 man squad,if league allows taxi squad of say 2 then he stays otherwise no.
As for goaltending with Medina now #3 in the league,I would not upgrade goaltending go with him and Downey and let it ride.
For me after missing 3 -1/2 weeks approximately Medina plays 3 in a row wins all 3 and allows only 3 goals total,the other teams score 1 PP goal in 13 opps, including a 5 minute PP,plus a goalie vs Kitchener, he and the D,plus Damico were fantastic, that's all I had to know.The PP has been improving over the season, now the PK is improving, goaltenders are your best PK guys,look no further then London for that ,Brochu with average D,plus Evangelista, Windsor ,Medina,get Perrott, better then average D,Johnston and Damico excellent Pk.
I am not willing to change complexion of this team,only a small D in these times can do the trick.
No need to go all out
Bonus is you will have plenty for next year.

 

[member 71782]

I have no problem not going all in, I have a problem standing pat or not adding enough to justify moving assets for a 1st or 2nd round exit.

A couple of games where the team played pretty well and Medina had a good showing in each is enough to sell you on a minor add? You're too easy.

We've seen what happens when teams don't do enough and we've seen what happens when they do nothing. A lot of people pushed for them to stand pat or another way to put it, stand still in 2019-20 with what many considered a better roster. We also saw all the comments about their age and experience automatically making them a contender before this year even started and how did it start?

Yes they've improved but if they don't add or don't add enough and we see 2019-20 all over again then we'll hear the same thing we heard about 2019-20, we'll they were the only top team that didn't add, it should be expected or in one word, excuses.

I would prefer next year myself, they are and can be better set up for next year. The problem is owners that don't care and a GM who appears limited or incompetent in the role.

Which is it? No idea at this point. A couple solid additions that smell a lot like desperate moves trying to add experience to a short roster so the owners can keep their wallets closed.

Either build for next year, their best option or go all in. Don't waste the fans time tinkering around the edges to get the same result we've had much of the last decade with the built in excuse they were the only team at the top that didn't make significant additions. Fans are tired of the bullshit excuses and the bullshit way this team is being run just so those excuses are ready made to fit the situation.

Buy or sell, that's the options on the table. If Bowler doesn't see it then fire him. If the owners are stopping him then sell the dam team already.

I've never seen an ownership group destroy a franchise with a solid and fairly recent winning record so fast. Everyone on here knows the problems start with them and trickle down through the rest of the organization.

As for the players, the 3 OAs are mediocre at best this year. Henault us a product of those around him. Give anyone a 1:45 on the PP and they'll rack up points with Johnston and Co. On the PK and 5 on 5 he hasn't even been average and yet us near the top for minutes on this team.

Ladd is Ladd. Does nothing particularly good or bad and I would take him on the 3rd pair everyday of the week over Henault. He at least brings some defensive responsibility with his game.

D'Amico has been invisible most of the year unless he gets a goal. He's always played a physical game as an instigator who could score. This year he very rarely uses the body and he hasn't instigated anything that would draw a penalty or take an opponent off their game not to mention is not on pace to match his goals total from any year except his rookie year.

Our OAs have been some of the least reliable players on this roster.

In terms Baisov and Peer, what's the difference between them?

They're both supposed to be able to contribute offensively, not sure what else we're supposed to expect from Peer but Baisov is supposed to play physical and usually does.

Baisov has one assist and is a +3 while Peer just recently got his second point giving him one goal and one assist while being a -6. Baisov is only 17 while Peer is 18. I expected much more from both and while many on here have complained about Baisov many have given Peer a ton of praise. Honestly both are very expendable and should not be back next year. Peer reminds of Playfair, skating around not accomplishing much and Baisov reminds me of Boka his first couple of years, playing physical but not providing a lot of offense.

Baisov doesn't appear to have Boka's PK ability and Peer isn't being put in ahead of better younger players.

If people think we are a Perrot or another similar player away and that's it they may want to watch the games a bit closer. It might get you a division title and maybe an appearance in the second round and that's it.

The smartest move us to move the OAs, Cuylle, McDonald and Medina. Sign Tovell and Nartin then add a couple of 03 or 04 D, preferably as part of the other deals or in other deals if needed as well as an 03/04 forward.

We need a solid group of 03s for next year and right now We have Johbston and 3 middle 6 forwards. The rest are bit parts that need to be upgraded.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Cfaub

For a team that has won 6 in a row, 8 in a row unbeaten in regulation ,only 6 losses in regulation the last 23 games,their #1 goalie absent for 11 of those games,#1 guy 3rd in the league in goals against,very high scoring team one of highest in the league,improving in every metric,PP,PK, a deep team tied for 1st in the division, winning despite many absences,showing considerable depth especially after the last 2 trades,mostly everybody contributing, seems you are being very unfair and dismissive of clubs considerable improvement to date.
I bet you didn't know that Henault who as I mentioned is tied for 3rd in dman scoring points with 23 in 23 games played,of the top 6 dman in scoring has scored the most goals at even strength despite playing fewer games then all but 1 of them.
All 5 of his goals have come at even strength, of the 23 points only 10 have come on the PP,so no he is not just a PP guy,he produces at 5 on 5 too.
If you came to a game you would see the difference between Baisov and Peer, it's not close, Peer is quicker and can play both Center and wing,Baisov just a winger who hasn't been able to score at all unfortunately.
I would definitely have Peer next year and not Baisov.
As for the team being sold nobody in their right mind would buy an OHL team right now and it could be that way for years.
I think you are upset that Windsor has turned things around because it goes against your mostly negative narrative despite evidence to the contrary.
I said at the start of the year,prior to season starting that I saw alot of potential with this club,and despite a slow start,under 7 or games,my statement so far is bearing considerable fruit.
This is why tinkering not blowing things up or going crazy to bring people in the way to go.
Scoring wins games and this team can score,keep things under 3 or so you will win,yes u need goaltending and Medina has done since after the 1st 3 weeks,like I said all other areas have improved, considerable depth throughout the lineup, they have beaten every team in the division now with or without Medina,they score at will,get a dman like Perrott, and in my view good to go.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

What’s with everyone wanting Thorton? Downey is every bit as good and X is even better. If Bowler sells X it’s for future consideration and we should run Downey.

Inexpensive upgrade at goaltending who is signed by an NHL team. He will be back for next season while Medina may not be and nonetheless will bring more stability in the crease for Windsor.

 

[OHLTG]

Just going to chime in here...

- I'm not sold on moving Henault just yet. You need offence from the blue-line and he's our key guy right now. If you can upgrade Ladd, I'm not against it.
- D'Amico tends to be hot-and-cold but I don't move him just for some mid-round pick. You need his energy, even if it's not consistent.
- I'd keep Peer over Baisov; the former is solid on the PK and seems to have a better nose for the net. He's not going to wind anyone up like Baisov does, but he produces more. IF Baisov was to stay home for the second half, it's not the end of the world. I believe in his potential but...
- I know people are hoping for a big sell-off but I don't see it happening. The offence is among the best in the league. Upgrade on defence (and maybe goaltending) and this could be something. It's taken them a while but they're finding their groove.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Another thing re Louka Henault
His 5 goals all scored at even strength is 2nd in the league amongst dmen tied with Danill Chayka of Guelph
Dmen Robert Calisti another oa for SSM and Roberto Mancini for Saginaw have 6 goals each at even strength to lead the league.
Henault 's value 5 on 5 offensively cant be ignored.
Windsor thrives on offense to win.