Windsor Spitfires 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 3)

[hockeylegend11]

So not really an offensive goal scoring Dman? (take away the Hattie n it's about a goal a year?) TY for highlighting that.
My bad, I thought I saw a post saying he was up there in goal scoring for D for justification his offense was needed.
In response to others saying move him.
Context matters when trying to use stats.[/

In points he is tied for 3rd most amongst D with 23 points.
His 23 points by the way is only 7 less then London's entire 6 man dcorps.
combined .
Now that's interesting and true.
For context London d corps ranks 20th in points .
His 5 even strength goals equals London's 5 even strength goals from their entire team dmen

 

[OHLTG]

You're not trading a top-5 offensive d-man in the league unless you get fair value in return. He's at a point-per-game and has improved in every season since he joined the league. He may not be a defensive stud, but he's physical, brings offence that nobody else on the team does, and clear leadership ability in the room. Whether it's liked or not, Bowler's not going to deal him for a couple of mid-round picks.

 

[aresknights]

Why you bringing London again HL? lol. I responded to another poster n you started lol, n you gotta bring up London in response? Feel better lol? Cause what's really important is cherry picking a stat lol.
And if ya wanna stats compare it'll be easy since you brought it up, not me......
Total team pts this year?
Team goal differential this year?
I think those carry more weight but that's just me.

Maybe Windsor will top them in both by years end. Good chance they can. Maybe as good as chance as the last 10 years.

Windsor is racking up pts lately. Good on them. But they gotta get over that 1st rd drought. It'll do the fans and org. a ton of good.

The 2nd half will paint a clearer picture as to which teams are capable of making a run, as it usually does. Regardless of some selective, none consistent use of stats, as it usually does

 

[aresknights]

You're not trading a top-5 offensive d-man in the league unless you get fair value in return. He's at a point-per-game and has improved in every season since he joined the league. He may not be a defensive stud, but he's physical, brings offence that nobody else on the team does, and clear leadership ability in the room. Whether it's liked or not, Bowler's not going to deal him for a couple of mid-round picks.

Question is what is fair value in today's market?
The overpayment seem to have been corrected n add in Covid. Prices are way down.
It'll be interesting to see what happens around the league.
I'm going to lean towards buyers market ( if there is any market )

 

[OHLTG]

Question is what is fair value in today's market?
The overpayment seem to have been corrected n add in Covid. Prices are way down.
It'll be interesting to see what happens around the league.
I'm going to lean towards buyers market ( if there is any market )

If prices are down, even more reason to keep him.

 

[HockeyPops]

Another thing re Louka Henault
His 5 goals all scored at even strength is 2nd in the league amongst dmen tied with Danill Chayka of Guelph
Dmen Robert Calisti another oa for SSM and Roberto Mancini for Saginaw have 6 goals each at even strength to lead the league.
Henault 's value 5 on 5 offensively cant be ignored.
Windsor thrives on offense to win.

Hate to nitpick, but if Mancini and Calisti have 6 each, then Henault is not 2nd. He would be tied for 3rd.

 

[aresknights]

If prices are down, even more reason to keep him.

Not choosing sides trade or keep, just an observation.
What is fair value? Do you think its lower than it was 4 years ago for any player?
With the rule changes I think the market changed

 

[OHLTG]

Not choosing sides trade or keep, just an observation.
What is fair value? Do you think its lower than it was 4 years ago for any player?
With the rule changes I think the market changed

The market may have changed/lessened but his value has grown. If a team's not willing to pay, you don't trade him.

 

[dirty12]

Posting about over use of stats as mausiating is fine, imo. Accuse of manipulating stats, then point PP points as reason for an underwhelming +/-? Plus minus is calculated at even strength. Why discredit Henault for a 3 goal career game when Thompson rode 7 pts in the first 2 games to a WJC invite? He’s T12 for pts/g. Staios must have three 3-4 pt games.

 

[aresknights]

The market may have changed/lessened but his value has grown. If a team's not willing to pay, you don't trade him.

What would it cost a team to acquire Henault?
What would you pay to acquire Perrott?

I think regardless of inflated prices or more modest prices it'll come out in the wash if your buying/ Selling comparable pieces over a few years.

I have no idea what Spits should/ will do, but tend to like CFaud n Teflons approach n reasoning.
Just tired of the Covid curve putting that extra factor into it lol.

 

[HockeyPops]

Posting about over use of stats as mausiating is fine, imo. Accuse of manipulating stats, then point PP points as reason for an underwhelming +/-? Plus minus is calculated at even strength.

Agree, although shorthanded goals count towards plus/minus as well.

 

[windsor7]

You're not trading a top-5 offensive d-man in the league unless you get fair value in return. He's at a point-per-game and has improved in every season since he joined the league. He may not be a defensive stud, but he's physical, brings offence that nobody else on the team does, and clear leadership ability in the room. Whether it's liked or not, Bowler's not going to deal him for a couple of mid-round picks.

Is bowler able to trade him at all???

 

[windsor7]

Not choosing sides trade or keep, just an observation.
What is fair value? Do you think its lower than it was 4 years ago for any player?
With the rule changes I think the market changed

Need a gm to do trades too is an important fact..

 

[hockeylegend11]

Posting about over use of stats as mausiating is fine, imo. Accuse of manipulating stats, then point PP points as reason for an underwhelming +/-? Plus minus is calculated at even strength. Why discredit Henault for a 3 goal career game when Thompson rode 7 pts in the first 2 games to a WJC invite? He’s T12 for pts/g. Staios must have three 3-4 pt games.

Actually Staios has 2- 4 point games this season,a 4 assist game vs Peterborough on Nov 18 and another 4 point game vs Peterborough Dec 17 1G,3A last game before Christmas break.
Additionally he has put up 6-2 point games this season,so in those 8 games he had 20 points,his other 18 games played 10 points total.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Hate to nitpick, but if Mancini and Calisti have 6 each, then Henault is not 2nd. He would be tied for 3rd.[/QUOTE
I was counting quantity so 5 tied with Chayka would be 2nd most behind anyone with 6.

 

[HockeyPops]

I was counting quantity so 5 tied with Chayka would be 2nd most behind anyone with 6.

That's not how it works, though. If every other defenseman in the league had 2, and Henault had 1, would you say he had the second most?

 

[hockeylegend11]

You are splitting hairs
Also I included Chayka in my stats so I am not isolating one guy
If I did you would have a point,the fact I am not is not showing bias to a Windsor player
It's the way I count things and it's unbiased,if it were you are correct.
The number 5 is 2nd in quantity.

 

[HockeyPops]

You are splitting hairs
Also I included Chayka in my stats so I am not isolating one guy
If I did you would have a point,the fact I am not is not showing bias to a Windsor player
It's the way I count things and it's unbiased,if it were you are correct.
The number 5 is 2nd in quantity.

I am splitting hairs, but I am driving home a point in doing so. You can't just make up your own rules for what 2nd means.

Mystery solved: What happens when there's a tie in the Olympics?

 

[member 71782]

The market may have changed/lessened but his value has grown. If a team's not willing to pay, you don't trade him.

This makes no sense. The change in the market is what dictates the price.

If the market is depressed and you think you can demand a price based on what the market was 5 years ago then good luck with ever getting what you consider fair value for a player.

2019-20 had as many potential buyers plus there were a few surprise buyers. It should have been a sellers market and by normal standards it wasn't even close. Teams had similar assets as they do today with one team being loaded, Oshawa at the time. The lack of multiple teams with lots of assets shows things had been trending downwards for a couple of years.

This year there's the potential uncertainty of Covid on everybody's minds at the moment which will be be an extra pressure.

Top OAs aren't going for much and Windsor has 3 middle of the pack OAs that all come with major concerns and you think Henault is going to bring in a very good return?

Teams don't trade for your players based on what they mean to your team, it's what they'll mean to their team. Judging the cost of what they'll pay is based on what similar players have gone for not what your team demands. Sure, your team can hold out and keep the player if they choose but with OAs you can only have 3 so if you want to upgrade you'll have to move them.

The way I see it is you move them separately so you get something instead of paying more for an upgrade and then also using them as a throw in for nothing just to get them a place to play.

If Windsor upgrades both their OA D I can honestly see them passing through waivers since contenders wouldn't be needing them and others would be focusing on development of their kids.

I thought my values were fair based on the market but then again I understand the value of an upgrade vs the emotional attachment to a player because he's on my team.

 

[EON]

New thread: Windsor Spitfires 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 4)