He still needs to be traded.
Was a horrible year and don't see all the upside some see with him skating on the ice.
It would be best just to part ways one way or another.
Windsor Spitfires 2016-17 Season Thread (Part 8)
- Thread starter EON
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He still needs to be traded.
Was a horrible year and don't see all the upside some see with him skating on the ice.
It would be best just to part ways one way or another.
Spits
I disagree re moving players prior to start of the season unless you know exactly what you are getting,not dealing for conditionals,that's not maximizing assets it minimalizing.
Rarely do u get 2 Euros picking 50th,not saying u won't,yes select 2 and hope the best one shows,and it better be the 1st guy chosen.
I think that Day,Sergachev,and Knott do return,as for Stanley not sure about a secondary deal,maybe the condition verbally is if Spits win the Cup,a deal is done,if not no deal.
The following is my initial opening day line up including guys I am expecting to return.
Forwards
Brown-Vilardi-Euro
Luchuk-Knott-Boka
Angle-Laishram-Purboo
OBrien-Benwell-Burns
Spares/other
Aloise-Loon-Stewardson, Playfair
Rychel, Sirman,D'Amico
Def
Titrone-Sergachev
Nother-Day
Corcoran-Stanley
SP
Staios
Fallowfield
Henault
Goalies
Dipietro
Bauer
SP
O'Leary
Now I can see Brown being dealt, probably Ottawa,would like to see Chelmelski as part of this deal,,a year younger,a center.
Guys like Knott, perhaps Luchuk,Day and Stanley if not moved in the summer prime candidates to get traded
Dipietro definitely would be 1 guy while reluctant to deal him that would fetch a ransom,and I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on
such a deal.
Sergachev would be dealt if Montreal says he isn't coming back or wants him somewhere else, otherwise he stays.
The other day I proposed a line of O'Brien, Aloise and Burns, wrecking crew with some talent,they would energize the franchise IMO,so I think they should be tried at camp.
Joey Trifone could be interesting on the back end,and if the Spits could get Cade Webber,it presents an interesting D for years to come,u would have,Staios, Henault, Corcoran, Trifone,Webber, Fallowfield,and he is the old man at 18,Nother is going to be 19, so u might get an O/A year out of him.
I say do things right no panic deals, limited conditional deals,is the way to go not the scorch the earth things discussed here.
There are nice building blocks, especially in goal and on the D, future wise, should be interesting this summer and beyond.
I disagree re moving players prior to start of the season unless you know exactly what you are getting,not dealing for conditionals,that's not maximizing assets it minimalizing.
Rarely do u get 2 Euros picking 50th,not saying u won't,yes select 2 and hope the best one shows,and it better be the 1st guy chosen.
I think that Day,Sergachev,and Knott do return,as for Stanley not sure about a secondary deal,maybe the condition verbally is if Spits win the Cup,a deal is done,if not no deal.
The following is my initial opening day line up including guys I am expecting to return.
Forwards
Brown-Vilardi-Euro
Luchuk-Knott-Boka
Angle-Laishram-Purboo
OBrien-Benwell-Burns
Spares/other
Aloise-Loon-Stewardson, Playfair
Rychel, Sirman,D'Amico
Def
Titrone-Sergachev
Nother-Day
Corcoran-Stanley
SP
Staios
Fallowfield
Henault
Goalies
Dipietro
Bauer
SP
O'Leary
Now I can see Brown being dealt, probably Ottawa,would like to see Chelmelski as part of this deal,,a year younger,a center.
Guys like Knott, perhaps Luchuk,Day and Stanley if not moved in the summer prime candidates to get traded
Dipietro definitely would be 1 guy while reluctant to deal him that would fetch a ransom,and I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on
such a deal.
Sergachev would be dealt if Montreal says he isn't coming back or wants him somewhere else, otherwise he stays.
The other day I proposed a line of O'Brien, Aloise and Burns, wrecking crew with some talent,they would energize the franchise IMO,so I think they should be tried at camp.
Joey Trifone could be interesting on the back end,and if the Spits could get Cade Webber,it presents an interesting D for years to come,u would have,Staios, Henault, Corcoran, Trifone,Webber, Fallowfield,and he is the old man at 18,Nother is going to be 19, so u might get an O/A year out of him.
I say do things right no panic deals, limited conditional deals,is the way to go not the scorch the earth things discussed here.
There are nice building blocks, especially in goal and on the D, future wise, should be interesting this summer and beyond.
Like Rayzor was saying, it has to start in the off season, asset management is going to be important. Every player that leaves must be replaced and you need cards for those replacements whether those players come from within the system or acquired through trades or FA.
The more carry overs from this year to start the season the more cards you burn, the fewer cards available to acquire players with at the deadline. Each player you carry over then trade later count as two cards, one for the player and one for their replacement.
Get as many kids in at the start, move as many vets in the off season. This will limit the cards you use. It will also give the team an idea of how the kids are progressing, evaluate the talent coming up to the deadline and make moves that address future needs as those needs are exposed.
Vilardi and DiPietro are the big moves if they are moved. Hold onto them until the deadline when you get max value but also after evaluating the kids for half a year maximize your return by structuring the deal(s) around team needs. Do you need a high end player in return with fewer picks or a second line player with more picks in return.
Brown, Sergschev and Stanley focus on immediate picks the next three years and at least one player with high upside. Moving those three in the off season sets the tone for the year, saves some cards and gets development time for some kids.
Luchuk and Laischram as OAs will carry more value at the deadline. As OAs their value is already limited so you end up with a couple of picks but if Brown, Sergachev and Stanley can return picks that restock the draft cupboard for the next three years you can maximize the value of Luchuk and Laishram with higher picks further out in more creative deals while still getting half a season out of them.
Agree that it will be a tough year for the organization but the right moves at the right times with the right staff in place can get the kids lots of development time and still have them battling for a playoff spot.
I already posted before seeing Jeff Brown leave his post as coach/ GM of the Ottawa 67's,still think with Ottawa could still work with the Senators in charge of his development moving forward.Will have to wait and see on this one,no need to panic here.
ohloutsider
Registered User
Yes understand how cards work - you don't have to sign anybody until drop of the puck on the NHL season - around Oct 15th - yes we should move some players before that but a fire sale - no smart GM is doing that - most GM's of other teams are not sure in August the direction their team is heading so not many buyers out there in August. they have time and they will take the time to get it right - Warren made deals all the way through the trade window and you will see the same this year. By the way all the deals he made last year he still closed out with 2 cards left and he carried Sanvido to the end. Everybody on this thread understands we need to sell/rebuild/restock just the approach we differ on.
If everyone returns that you think might then provided all those flyer picks that haven't arrived yet suddenly came Windsor would have a decent team that could go a couple of rounds in the playoffs.
Keep the line up intact and roll the dice and see what happens., although the scorched draft cupboards mean this team would not be able to add, the decent young talent goes a year behind in developing and us fans see another decent year with not much hope for the immediate future as a full on rebuild that is desperately needed gets pushed back another year when we have fewer high players to deal and just as few draft picks.
Why hold Sergachev if he is 50/50?
If you think the team will deal him if he returns why spend the card which leaves one less card to bring someone else in or up.
Stanley and Brown have had various rumours surrounding them about potential deals. If there is any truth to those rumours get the deals done in the off season. Why use two cards on them then two more cards to replace them later in the season? Get the deals done and use the four cards bringing up kids in the system, signing a couple of FAs or acquiring kids that will be here for a couple of seasons.
Those three players have one year left barring any return for an OA season.
Windsor isn't maximizing assets holding onto them for all of this season and if they are looking to sell at the deadline there are other players in Windsor and around the league that will garner as much if not more interest.
If you're going into a full rebuild, which when you look at Windsor's draft board for the next ten years is desperately needed you're not going to be able to deal away half your roster at the deadline and then expect to even have the cards to replace them.
There's more contenders in the summer than there is in January. Vilardi and DiPietro make sense to deal at the deadline when we know who the top contenders are and prices are driven up.
Laishram and Luchuk make sense at the deadline. Steady players that can fill a role on a team that will go deep in the playoffs yet versatile enough to support a young, rebuilding team. OAs are cheap in the offseason but if they provide what a team is looking for they will bring a better return at the deadline.
Day and Knott. I really doubt either one returns, 50/50 for Day, less for Knott. Move Day at the deadline, would be one of the better D available but since most probably don't expect him back you probably couldn't get an offseason deal done for him even for conditionals. Knott would be a surprise to return. Probably bring the highest return of all our OAs but just don't see him coming back.
It may be a scorched earth way of doing things but when the team has no seconds for nine or ten drafts, no thirds or fourths for three or four drafts and various other shortcomings in their draft board that they are not going to recoup or improve on if they hold onto most of these players then what do they do?
Do they hang in their for five or six years hoping they strike it rich in the fifth, sixth, seventh and with rounds every year?
Or do they just be content fighting for a playoff spot one year then missing the following year until they finally get back to a full draft board sometime in the late 2020s.
As for the future, how many 16 year olds from this draft have a legit shot of making this in a full rebuild?
How many 17 year olds from this or last years drafts have a legit shot if this team does a full rebuild?
As always, what happens will always be somewhere in the middle of everyone's speculation but the reality is if this team wants their immediate future to include being competitive quickly they will need to make drastic changes otherwise that three to four year junior cycle could drag on for six or seven years.
HL
Your always an optimist and feel myself and others are mainly pessimists but the reality is for the next three or four drafts this team has few if any high round picks to build with. They can't bet on hitting on mid round picks and even if they manage to be somewhat competitive while holding off on dealing most of these players and hitting on mid round players they don't have the draft picks required to make deals to add.
They are in poor shape going forward after this season and will have to do something drastic or be stuck in mediocrity for years to come.
Legend conditional picks are exactly that conditional. If the player shows you get those picks. The only reason why the organization wouldn't start a rebuild in the summer is trying to get blood from a stone. They want to bring players back to hopefully have a decent record then sell off at the deadline therefore trying to sneak into the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed get thrown to the wolves but get 2 home playoff games. You're either all in with the rebuild or your're trying to play both sides of the fence and the latter doesn't really work. I would also slow this irrational exuberance on Trifone he played high school hockey in Wisconsin and people want him in the lineup? There's a large jump from high school hockey to OHL.
Yes Rychel made deals through the season but in most deals he didn't move anyone out or did so prior to having to use a card on them. Selling I would guess he will be looking to acquire players as well as move them, that's where my concern comes in with using up cards that you don't need to.
Yes I am proposing a fire sale but two of the three I suggest moved in the off season have rumours surrounding them being dealt already and the third may or may not return but being an import why play around, move him for conditionals. If he returns we get those picks, if not we're not getting anything for him anyways.
Any other players to move in the off season are players most are not expecting back or would prefer not to see back.
OHLTG
Registered User
Cfaub
You can always deal Sergachev without burning a card,if Montreal sends him back to Windsor,u can move him before activating a card, so that's one reason I would not deal him on a conditional basis,you get far less with most conditional deals then definitive ones. Besides I am not sure about getting 2 quality Euros picking in the 50's instead of early.
More then 1 non biased observer felt Windsor did very well in the re-entry draft and 3 of the 4 who played weekend looked pretty good, speaking of forwards Loon-Stewardson, O'Brien and goalie Patrick O'Leary, while dman Pizzuti was fine but not as good as the other 3, while the #1 in that draft wasn't here,Evan Benwell,who still is playing,and he is expected to make the club.
Of the free agents that were at the rookie camp, Trifone was the most impressive,and there were 7 of them there,the only other one who looked really good and should be invited back to main camp was a late born 99 forward from Pickering,David Teagen-Katsumi, who had ba tryout last year in North Bay.The other 5 free agents there did nothing for me,one who I thought might show something was 17 year old forward Wes Dobbin,as a 16 year old winger on a bad Lambton Shores Jr B team he scored 20 plus goals, unfortunately he did not good at all, hardly noticed him,not a good thing for a kid trying to latch on to a team.
As Trifone,just because he played at high school doesn't matter,he did show something,was noticeable and deserves a look at main camp to show what he can do against even better competition.
I like the underdog, besides didn't Tom Barasso go from High School to the NHL when he was drafted.?
You can always deal Sergachev without burning a card,if Montreal sends him back to Windsor,u can move him before activating a card, so that's one reason I would not deal him on a conditional basis,you get far less with most conditional deals then definitive ones. Besides I am not sure about getting 2 quality Euros picking in the 50's instead of early.
More then 1 non biased observer felt Windsor did very well in the re-entry draft and 3 of the 4 who played weekend looked pretty good, speaking of forwards Loon-Stewardson, O'Brien and goalie Patrick O'Leary, while dman Pizzuti was fine but not as good as the other 3, while the #1 in that draft wasn't here,Evan Benwell,who still is playing,and he is expected to make the club.
Of the free agents that were at the rookie camp, Trifone was the most impressive,and there were 7 of them there,the only other one who looked really good and should be invited back to main camp was a late born 99 forward from Pickering,David Teagen-Katsumi, who had ba tryout last year in North Bay.The other 5 free agents there did nothing for me,one who I thought might show something was 17 year old forward Wes Dobbin,as a 16 year old winger on a bad Lambton Shores Jr B team he scored 20 plus goals, unfortunately he did not good at all, hardly noticed him,not a good thing for a kid trying to latch on to a team.
As Trifone,just because he played at high school doesn't matter,he did show something,was noticeable and deserves a look at main camp to show what he can do against even better competition.
I like the underdog, besides didn't Tom Barasso go from High School to the NHL when he was drafted.?
OHLTG
Registered User
Why the need to diminish high school to OHL? It's not easy but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Alex Debrincat did it. As Legend pointed out, Tom Barasso went from 23gp in final year of high school to 42 with the Sabres. Former OHL'er D Alex Lepkowski went from high school to the O (and did well), as did former Spitfires' F Ben Johnson (I'll take his totals this year from someone).
Earlier I posted a projected best case Windsor roster for next season
Now I am projecting a worse case scenario assuming that Day,Sergachev, Knott make the pros,and Stanley is dealt to Kitchener as rumoured.
Any deals in the summer for the 3 guys become null and void, except for the deal involving Stanley.
Forwards
Brown,Vilardi,Euro
Luchuk, Benwell,Bola
Angle,Laishram,Purboo
O'Brien,Aloise,Burns
Sp
Playfair,Loon-Edwardson, Rychel
Sirman, Brimmer, D'Amico
D
Euro-Robertson
Nother-Staios
Trifone-Corcoran
Other
Fallowfield-Henault
Gauvin-Hoffman
Goal
Dipietro
Bauer
Sp
O'Leary
As anyone can see should such a scenario play out,they go from a team with one of the league's best d combined with Dipietro,the best remaining goalie in the league with Parsons, McNiven and Brodeur gone,to a very inexperienced d corps.
A full rebuild would likely ensue,with Brown, Luchuk, Dipietro and Vilardi put up for grabs.
Quite the hull would come from dealing Dipietro and Vilardi and hasten such a rebuild.
L
Now I am projecting a worse case scenario assuming that Day,Sergachev, Knott make the pros,and Stanley is dealt to Kitchener as rumoured.
Any deals in the summer for the 3 guys become null and void, except for the deal involving Stanley.
Forwards
Brown,Vilardi,Euro
Luchuk, Benwell,Bola
Angle,Laishram,Purboo
O'Brien,Aloise,Burns
Sp
Playfair,Loon-Edwardson, Rychel
Sirman, Brimmer, D'Amico
D
Euro-Robertson
Nother-Staios
Trifone-Corcoran
Other
Fallowfield-Henault
Gauvin-Hoffman
Goal
Dipietro
Bauer
Sp
O'Leary
As anyone can see should such a scenario play out,they go from a team with one of the league's best d combined with Dipietro,the best remaining goalie in the league with Parsons, McNiven and Brodeur gone,to a very inexperienced d corps.
A full rebuild would likely ensue,with Brown, Luchuk, Dipietro and Vilardi put up for grabs.
Quite the hull would come from dealing Dipietro and Vilardi and hasten such a rebuild.
L
Interesting story regarding dman Cade Webber who was not announced as one of the 23 players to be invited to play for The USA Development Team.
Apparently he was the only player to turn down the opportunity to play there.
While he is a BU recruit,and with rumours that BU coach David Quinn might be in line to coach the Buffalo Sabres, the Spits could be a landing spot for the talented defender.
Even though he was a 11th round
pick,he is a 1st round talent,and would be quite the coup if he were to arrive here.
Fowler,Ellis, Sergachev, and Stanley have been drafted in the 1st round by NHL teams due in large part from the development of playing in Windsor,no reason Windsor can't help this youngster like the others.
Apparently he was the only player to turn down the opportunity to play there.
While he is a BU recruit,and with rumours that BU coach David Quinn might be in line to coach the Buffalo Sabres, the Spits could be a landing spot for the talented defender.
Even though he was a 11th round
pick,he is a 1st round talent,and would be quite the coup if he were to arrive here.
Fowler,Ellis, Sergachev, and Stanley have been drafted in the 1st round by NHL teams due in large part from the development of playing in Windsor,no reason Windsor can't help this youngster like the others.
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It's not diminishing high school. I said there's a big difference between stepping up from high school to OHL. Lepkowski stunk in the OHL, big and slow and was horrible. Johnson wasn't very good either. DeBrincat is your only example. So if I said a prospect in baseball was called up from A ball to the big leagues and I said there's a big difference between the 2 leagues that means I am diminishing A ball? Come off it I am tired of your argumentative attitude.
SpItFiReZ
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2004
- 2,187
- 288
That would be a huge pick up. We'll have to wait and see what happens but even with Quinn potentially leaving, BU is a top tier team and likely will continue to do so.
There is also a great discrepancy between high school hockey from State to State. There have been players from Minnesota and Massachusetts that have been drafted by the NFL. DeBrincat played for Little Caesar's before spending a year at Lake Forest Academy. In most States including Michigan and Wisconsin, they play about 25 games from October to March. The best players in those States play midget or Junior.
Spits
Would be very surprised Vilardi cracks the NHL at 18, not because he isn't talented but there is a big difference from the OHL to the NHL.
That being said if he continues his improvement would not surprise me if Vilardi makes his NHL at 19.
Let's hope a team like Detroit drafts him,they don't rush guys like some teams do.
Would be very surprised Vilardi cracks the NHL at 18, not because he isn't talented but there is a big difference from the OHL to the NHL.
That being said if he continues his improvement would not surprise me if Vilardi makes his NHL at 19.
Let's hope a team like Detroit drafts him,they don't rush guys like some teams do.
My fear is that he is drafted by Vegas. He will be their poster boy even if he is not ready.
OHLTG
Registered User
You are diminishing it, though...
Translation - some kid from a high school in Wisconsin looked good for a scrimmage and you want him in the lineup?
Yes, there's a large jump but that doesn't mean he can't do it. Johnson put up 38 points in his rookie season. I'd take that from any kid going from HS to the OHL, especially this season.
I'm not expecting Trifone to put up 20 points and be a #1 guy but he's a large kid who put on a good show. Let's bring him to the main camp and see what he can do. If he makes the team as a 5/6, I'm all for that.
PS. you must have missed where I actually agreed with you in the last week
Strange, I realize.
OHLTG
Registered User
http://windsorspitfires.com/article/single-game-tickets-on-sale
Single game tickets (minus SF and F) are on sale. Does the CHL set the prices or the team? I would have figured they'd be lower all-around (my gut feeling said Windsor would be the lowest since it's hometown...but nope).
Single game tickets (minus SF and F) are on sale. Does the CHL set the prices or the team? I would have figured they'd be lower all-around (my gut feeling said Windsor would be the lowest since it's hometown...but nope).
EvenSteven
Registered User
- Sep 3, 2009
- 7,490
- 6,467
No disrespect, but I'd have thought this tourney would have been sold out long ago - especially in a CHL sized rink.
In '08, IIRC, the Aud in Kitchener was sold out of tourney packages (less those allotted for other teams, sponsors, etc) sometime during the regular season. I don't believe anything less than the full package was ever made available for sale.
I'd imagine sanctions could have affected ticket sales? Had Windsor been awarded hosting duties in 2011, as they should have been, they'd have sold the place out very fast.
OHLTG
Registered User
I'd imagine tickets will be sold out closer to knowing which teams are involved. There are still three weeks until puck drop so plenty of time.
Sanctions could affect sales but in a "why give the CHL money?" way. If you smack a team on the forehead and say "bad team", will the supporters of the team go "here, take our cash for this tournament!"?
Oh, if Windsor was the host in 2011, that place would be sold out within days. The hype was huge.
I still feel that it'll be sold out, or at least close to it. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if you see people giving the
look towards the current prices. Maybe I'm off (I haven't truly seen many round robin prices over the years) but they seem high.
Sanctions could affect sales but in a "why give the CHL money?" way. If you smack a team on the forehead and say "bad team", will the supporters of the team go "here, take our cash for this tournament!"?
Oh, if Windsor was the host in 2011, that place would be sold out within days. The hype was huge.
I still feel that it'll be sold out, or at least close to it. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if you see people giving the
look towards the current prices. Maybe I'm off (I haven't truly seen many round robin prices over the years) but they seem high.4 playoff wins in 6 seasons
sanctions
not a single team banner raised
not a single season where they had home ice advantage
The organization is trying to double down getting blood from a stone due to only 3 home playoff games and being eliminated round 1. Fans are smarter than what the organization takes them for. Every organization has water carriers but the water isn't getting carried far in this case. Fans can see through this for what it is. I might go to the Hockey House for a game or 2 and see if I can get a ticket for 20-30 which is definitely possible from what I've heard.
OHLTG
Registered User
Rayzor makes a good point (see? ). Fans here had a taste of winning and now it's win or bust, which is unfortunate. That said, I still believe you'll have great crowds. As long as the prices remain reasonable, that is.
). Fans here had a taste of winning and now it's win or bust, which is unfortunate. That said, I still believe you'll have great crowds. As long as the prices remain reasonable, that is.- Status
