Tennis: Wimbledon 2023 [July 3-16]

[AhosDatsyukian]

Nadal is done winning slams.

And Djokovic will finish with more than 23.

People been saying that about Nadal for nearly 10 years lol. Nadal on clay is the greatest athlete of all time. We’ll see how recovery goes but if he’s even at 60% of his best he’s the RG favorite

 

[kihei]

That may be a little premature. I wouldn't bet against Djokovic winning another major or two.

Is it? One tournament ago that wasn’t the rhetoric. Pretty sure Djoko has at least 1-2 more in him. And if/when Nadal returns can’t count him out of RG and should still win some other tournaments probably.

While Carlos is to me the most promising out of all the current young guys on the tour to be more than just another Wawrinka or something, the big 3 era is over when they don’t win anymore.

I'm not saying that Djokovic can't win one or two more slams. He will be certainly favoured in Melbourne, for instance, in all likelihood,. But there is no longer any question that there is a new king of the hill. It's not a question of if or when--Carlos is it and he is it right now. After looking like he was walking on eggshells in his first match at Queen's and almost losing to Rinderknech in a tight three-set, opening round match, Carlos has improved so dramatically on grass in such a very short time that he just eclipsed the former king of the hill on his best surface. That's a dramatic changing of the guard if there ever was one. Good luck to Nole in the future, but I think we are now well and truly in the Carlos Alcaraz era.

 

[MsMeow]

People been saying that about Nadal for nearly 10 years lol. Nadal on clay is the greatest athlete of all time. We’ll see how recovery goes but if he’s even at 60% of his best he’s the RG favorite

It isn't just the injury recovery but also age with Rafa. I would be surprised if he won another major. Who knows if he will even return.

Carlos mastered grass way quicker than expected and already has a US Open title under his belt. I would have expected him to be better on clay than on grass and hard. If he stays healthy he's going to be the favourite in any tournament.

 

[Tuggy]

People been saying that about Nadal for nearly 10 years lol. Nadal on clay is the greatest athlete of all time. We’ll see how recovery goes but if he’s even at 60% of his best he’s the RG favorite

That's easy to say about a 27 or 30 year old Nadal, but he is 37. Hasn't played since the AO and who knows when/if he'll play again.

My prediction I made before is he'll play one last RG next year and retire after the 2024 Olympics in Paris.

He's not winning another major.

 

[kihei]

That's easy to say about a 27 or 30 year old Nadal, but he is 37. Hasn't played since the AO and who knows when/if he'll play again.

My prediction I made before is he'll play one last RG next year and retire after the 2024 Olympics in Paris.

He's not winning another major.

Also, when Rafa comes back, he will be unseeded for a long time and facing much tougher draws. Just ask Andy Murray how that works.

 

[Panteras]

I'm not saying that Djokovic can't win one or two more slams. He will be certainly favoured in Melbourne, for instance, in all likelihood,. But there is no longer any question that there is a new king of the hill. It's not a question of if or when--Carlos is it and he is it right now. After looking like he was walking on eggshells in his first match at Queen's and almost losing to Rinderknech in a tight three-set, opening round match, Carlos has improved so dramatically on grass in such a very short time that he just eclipsed the former king of the hill on his best surface. That's a dramatic changing of the guard if there ever was one. Good luck to Nole in the future, but I think we are now well and truly in the Carlos Alcaraz era.

I just don’t understand how Carlos is the new king of the hill though lol sure he just bested Nole in a 5 setter. But it’s not like he completely demolished Nole and has won 4 straight finals against him….

And I’m a Rafa fan jumping ship to the Carlos bandwagon saying this, now that Nadal is all but retired.

But still, it’s not like Nole didn’t demolish Carlos at RG just last month.
I think it’s more of an “he’s officially arrived” “this kid is now truly a star in the making” “Carlos is forreal” “the next Nadal” than as you’re putting it “he’s now the king” “the Carlos era”. Think you’re jumping the gun a bit and kind of saying like it’s all but done for Nole unless it’s AO… not like Nole hasn’t lost 1 final against the likes of Medvedev, how did that turn out? Carlos is not Medvedev and is younger and starting to peak and I agree I think this is his future but I think we need to pump the brakes. I agree with you he is poised to be the new king and start his own era but we can’t say that yet without disrespecting the fact that Novak is still playing at very high level.

 

[Tuggy]

I just don’t understand how Carlos is the new king of the hill though lol sure he just bested Nole in a 5 setter. But it’s not like he completely demolished Nole and has won 4 straight finals against him….

And I’m a Rafa fan jumping ship to the Carlos bandwagon saying this, now that Nadal is all but retired.

But still, it’s not like Nole didn’t demolish Carlos at RG just last month.
I think it’s more of an “he’s officially arrived” “this kid is now truly a star in the making” “Carlos is forreal” “the next Nadal” than as you’re putting it “he’s now the king” “the Carlos era”. Think you’re jumping the gun a bit and kind of saying like it’s all but done for Nole unless it’s AO… not like Nole hasn’t lost 1 final against the likes of Medvedev, how did that turn out? Carlos is not Medvedev and is younger and starting to peak and I agree I think this is his future but I think we need to pump the brakes. I agree with you he is poised to be the new king and start his own era but we can’t say that yet without disrespecting the fact that Novak is still playing at very high level.

I agree, talk of passing of the torch is way premature.

Djokovic did just beat him at RG.

Alcaraz is on top right now, but I still wonder a little about his durability.

Either way, I'm not taking anything away from what he did today. Amazing win.

Looking forward to seeing how the hard courts season plays out.

 

[kihei]

I just don’t understand how Carlos is the new king of the hill though lol sure he just bested Nole in a 5 setter. But it’s not like he completely demolished Nole and has won 4 straight finals against him….

And I’m a Rafa fan jumping ship to the Carlos bandwagon saying this, now that Nadal is all but retired.

But still, it’s not like Nole didn’t demolish Carlos at RG just last month.
I think it’s more of an “he’s officially arrived” “this kid is now truly a star in the making” “Carlos is forreal” “the next Nadal” than as you’re putting it “he’s now the king” “the Carlos era”. Think you’re jumping the gun a bit and kind of saying like it’s all but done for Nole unless it’s AO… not like Nole hasn’t lost 1 final against the likes of Medvedev, how did that turn out? Carlos is not Medvedev and is younger and starting to peak and I agree I think this is his future but I think we need to pump the brakes. I agree with you he is poised to be the new king and start his own era but we can’t say that yet without disrespecting the fact that Novak is still playing at very high level.

Nole can prove me premature in my estimation at the US Open. Should be great fun.

 

[otown]

Let's hope for a rematch at the US Open! Novak took the defeat graciously heaping lots of praise on Carlos. Great for the sport and fantastic entertainment for us fans!

 

[kihei]

Not as mindbending as Vondourosa 2 wins and 10 losses record on grass before Wimbledon started, but still something of a head-shaker:: Coming into this grass court season, Carlos had a record of only 4 wins and 2 losses on grass. Quick learner or what?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Djokovic didn't destroy Alcaraz at the French Open. Alcaraz body failed him. From everything we saw up until the point that he couldn't hold up physically, it looked like a competitive match. Even if Djokovic would've pulled it out in 3 or 4, it looked like a true competitive match.

I don't know why people used this against Alcaraz or continue to do so. Djokovic can get credit for beating Alcaraz without us acting like Alcaraz was exposed in that match. Because if anything, maybe Djokovic bought a little too much into the hype believing that he had Alcaraz number best on best when that wasn't so. Could've contributed to why he lost today.

 

[Troubadour]

Exactly, that's what I was saying earlier. Calling it a passing of the torch is too premature, there's a lot of gas left in Djokovic's tank and he now has extra motivation to get back on top which will make this an interesting summer.

Alcaraz is amazing and I immediately pegged him as a future great (and my favorite player) when I first saw him at the Winston Salem open back in 2021 but I don't think Djokovic is ready to pass the torch quite yet. It would be nice if some of the young guys rose up, Rune, Sinner etc., and created some real competition for these two like Murray and Stan, for a brief time, did in The Big 3 era.

He is 36 and by the fifth set, he had lost his legs. There were stop balls and lobs the younger version of Djokovic would have chased and got to. The slower legs also mean lesser options for attack. So while it's early to sign him off, less and less will depend on him and more will be dependent on skill and determination (or lack thereof) of his opponents on the day.

Carlos definitely showed his contemporaries how to play Novak. It was different from the USO final against Medvedev in that while Novak maybe didn't play his absolute best, he played much closer to it than in that final where he basically imploded, and it should provide a blueprint for the younger guys -- make him run, play wide angles and dropshot him towards the net.

 

[Tuggy]

Been a while since a new name has been on there...

 

[Panteras]

Nole can prove me premature in my estimation at the US Open. Should be great fun.

Oh I hope he doesn’t! I hope you’re 100% right and I’m wrong. I’m all for Carlos being indeed the new king and this is the Carlos era already. I’m just trying to be impartial here and trying to acknowledge the fact that Djokovic is still very much around. So I can’t discount him just yet. But again, I do hope you’re right as I’m a Carlos fan.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

That's easy to say about a 27 or 30 year old Nadal, but he is 37. Hasn't played since the AO and who knows when/if he'll play again.

My prediction I made before is he'll play one last RG next year and retire after the 2024 Olympics in Paris.

He's not winning another major.

Before injuries he won Australian, French then made Semis at Wimbledon which he didn't lose he had to withdraw. That was just a year ago. Now he's actually taking a significant amount of time off to heal rather than trying to push through all his various ailments. The time off will only be good for him and his body. The only competition he has at the French is Djokovic/Alcaraz and on clay he's good enough to be a favorite over both of them when he returns. I'm not saying he'll definitely win another but to say he definitely won't is completely absurd. Keep counting him out like people have his entire career.

 

[CupofOil]

Also, when Rafa comes back, he will be unseeded for a long time and facing much tougher draws. Just ask Andy Murray how that works.

I will only underestimate Nadal at Roland Garros when he's no longer playing there. He probably would have won it again this year had he been healthy.

No doubt that it's a steep uphill climb for him to get to that level again but you can never count The King of Clay out regardless of what his draw is.

 

[CupofOil]

He is 36 and by the fifth set, he had lost his legs. There were stop balls and lobs the younger version of Djokovic would have chased and got to. The slower legs also mean lesser options for attack. So while it's early to sign him off, less and less will depend on him and more will be dependent on skill and determination (or lack thereof) of his opponents on the day.

Carlos definitely showed his contemporaries how to play Novak. It was different from the USO final against Medvedev in that while Novak maybe didn't play his absolute best, he played much closer to it than in that final where he basically imploded, and it should provide a blueprint for the younger guys -- make him run, play wide angles and dropshot him towards the net.

This is true. Not to discredit Medvedev but Djokovic choked away that moment in Ons Jabeur-esque fashion, it was actually surreal seeing him succomb to nerves but it surely got the best of him on that day.

Alcaraz basically gave Djokovic a taste of his own medicine, he gets more balls back than anybody else on tour and made Djokovic work. It was basically Novak playing against himself. Once Alcaraz settled down from trying to hit winners every point like he did in the first, he was able to work his way back into the match with patience and only "going for it" when the moment presented itself. Really impressive that he was able to adapt that quickly on such a big stage.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Djokovic is hard court Goat, not grass court Goat where he was overperforming to threaten Federer's total. He has a chance to get revenge at next two majors starting with some make up at US open. I think Alcarez will take over Roland Garros next year I'm not sure how you're supposed to stop his game there outside of cramps.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Did Novak have reading material during that extra long bathroom break? @kihei

What if he came out and said "No one should go in there for 20 minutes"?

 

[MsMeow]

Djokovic is hard court Goat, not grass court Goat where he was overperforming to threaten Federer's total. He has a chance to get revenge at next two majors starting with some make up at US open. I think Alcarez will take over Roland Garros next year I'm not sure how you're supposed to stop his game there outside of cramps.

I think Alcaraz will be in Djokovic's head at the US Open. He is fast and he hits way harder than Rafa and Roger, especially on his forehand. I think the crowds during the upcoming hard courts are going to be solidly behind him, too. It's going to be a fun summer!

 

[kihei]

I think Alcaraz will be in Djokovic's head at the US Open. He is fast and he hits way harder than Rafa and Roger, especially on his forehand. I think the crowds during the upcoming hard courts are going to be solidly behind him, too. It's going to be a fun summer!

I see it differently. I think Nole is going to be super-motivated by this. At this late stage of his career, a challenge like this is exactly what he needs, especially with Roger and probably Rafa out of the picture.

According to a Breakfast at Wimbledon segment, John McEnroe still things Roger is the GOAT. On the other hand, I think at one time or another John has claimed each of the three to be the GOAT But, still, interesting.

 

[kihei]

I don't think he has been mentioned here, but he should be. The best thing that ever happened to Carlos may be Juan Carlos Ferrero. He has been many things to Carlos-- mentor, coach, friend, taskmaster, father-figure, steady hand--and he deserves a lot of praise for how calmly and conscientiously he handles all of these roles

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I see it differently. I think Nole is going to be super-motivated by this. At this late stage of his career, a challenge like this is exactly what he needs, especially with Roger and probably Rafa out of the picture.

According to a Breakfast at Wimbledon segment, John McEnroe still things Roger is the GOAT. On the other hand, I think at one time or another John has claimed each of the three to be the GOAT But, still, interesting.

I've never been able to shake the feeling that peak Federer seemed like a better player than peak Djokovic, even if the numbers say seasons like 2011 and 2015 are as good. I felt like it was a surprising news story in 2006/2007 when peak Federer lost ANY non claycourt match and they would talk about on the radio in surprising news story tone that Murray got him on a random hardcourt event or something, such was his era of invincibility.

However Federer only kept that level up for a handful of years, whereas by making a full comeback starting in 2018 instead of a half comeback where he wins another 4-5 majors only, Djokovic kept up his run as dominant #1 for a really long time. So when it comes to overall career GOAT Djokovic may able to get it for career consistency.

 

[Bub]

I've never been able to shake the feeling that peak Federer seemed like a better player than peak Djokovic, even if the numbers say seasons like 2011 and 2015 are as good. I felt like it was a surprising news story in 2006/2007 when peak Federer lost ANY non claycourt match and they would talk about on the radio in surprising news story tone that Murray got him on a random hardcourt event or something, such was his era of invincibility.

However Federer only kept that level up for a handful of years, whereas by making a full comeback starting in 2018 instead of a half comeback where he wins another 4-5 majors only, Djokovic kept up his run as dominant #1 for a really long time. So when it comes to overall career GOAT Djokovic may able to get it for career consistency.

Peak Federer also didn't have the competition that peak Rafa and Peak Djokovic have had.

And to bring in things others have said:

-- McEnroe has indeed said "He is the GOAT" about all three, and just said it was Djokovic at the French Open and, iirc, early during this Wimbledon. So take that for what it's worth. (And I like John, he's a breath of fresh air compared to nearly every other commentor.)

-- For the "Carlos is king now" crowd, just remember that he was one bad ND swing away from being down two sets. Maybe he still wins--he played a helluva match and deserved to win--but that's quite a hill to climb. And I don't think Djokovic was 100% physically at this match. With Carlos cramping in France, and Novak struggling with his leg here, I'd like to see them play for all the marbles both at peak health. Seeing Novak win next time would be, imo, very very good for tennis.

-- As much as I'd like to discount Rafa, I don't think he's done either. He'll be full of whatever they shoot him up with and come charging back, even if only at Roland Garros and the Olympics. I could be wrong; at 37, nagging injuries sometimes aren't fully helped even with surgery and a long recovery (ask Roger). I hope he's done (sorry Rafa) but I won't be at all shocked to see him return to at least 90-95% peak Rafa.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Rank	Player	Total
1	Novak Djokovic[a] (SRB)	389
2	Roger Federer (SUI)	310
3	Pete Sampras (USA)	286
4	Ivan Lendl (TCH)	270
5	Jimmy Connors (USA)	268
6	Rafael Nadal (ESP)	209

No.	Player	Weeks
1	Steffi Graf	377
2	Martina Navratilova	332
3	Serena Williams	319
4	Chris Evert	260
5	Martina Hingis	209
6	/ Monica Seles	178

Although I'm a Federer and American women fan, I consider weeks at #1 the true indication of the goat. Wish washy McEnroe has mentioned this as a very important factor.