Tennis: Wimbledon 2023 [July 3-16]

[CupofOil]

Speeches like this is why Alcaraz is so easy to root for. Plays a beautiful, entertaining, game but also just seems like a great kid full of personality.

 

[Jack Straw]

Win Wimbledon and you get to play croquet with Roger Federer!

 

[sfvega]

It's always been super impressive to me how good these guys are early in their careers, but also how good their other languages are. I couldn't imagine making a big speech in Spanish at 20 years old.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know why this is considered such a surprise.

Not suggesting Djokovic was an underdog, but why weren't people giving Alcaraz a real chance?

Djokovic is 36. This is not his peak form. He's been the best the last few years because the competition isn't that good. That's to take nothing away from him. It's just true about the level of the competition. The best ever is better in his mid/late 30's than a bunch of players that aren't multi-slam winning type of players.

He's now playing a 20 year old who has no fear and can play at the level that the big 3 played at during their best years. 20 isn't 16. 20 might not be Alcaraz's final form, but it's plenty old enough to be able to be the best in the world.

What happened at the French Open was way overplayed by many people. Alcaraz didn't get his ass kicked. His body gave up on him. The conditions played a part in that in a way they weren't going to in this match. If it's pure play during the games they were healthy, their match at the French Open didn't show that different of a level between the two.

 

[TCTC]

It's always been super impressive to me how good these guys are early in their careers, but also how good their other languages are. I couldn't imagine making a big speech in Spanish at 20 years old.

Tbf, Nadal's English at 20 was pretty bad if I remember correctly.

 

[sfvega]

Hate to break it to you, but it's a good amount below golf.

Boxing also gets bigger numbers, although that is declining fast. I think boxing numbers are inflated, and the true numbers will only be reflected in a few years.

Yeah, I used to like boxing well into the 2000s, but it seems to be in the death throes at this point relying on gimmick TouTube/MMA fights to draw people in. Especially with the CTE developments, can't imagine near as many parents are letting their kids train in boxing even through HS. So their pool of talent 10-15 years from now is going to be really rough.

 

[sfvega]

Tbf, Nadal's English at 20 was pretty bad if I remember correctly.

Nadal is my favorite player ever, but yes it certainly was. But he was behind his peers it seems. Roger and Joker have transitioned languages much more seamlessly. Though that is probably more common in Europe, but it's still impressive.

 

[Troubadour]

Carlos went for it and got it. He was better from the second set onwards (pretty much). Well earned, and finally some young blood at Wimbledon.

Novak made so many dumb errors, was incredibly impatient at times, pointlessly rushed towards the net, on the other hand, often looked afraid to attack -- not his finest hour. Plus, so many slips. Not a great ad for Asics shoes (which tend to be pretty good btw).

 

[TLEH]

Yeah, other than Djokovic and Alcaraz, not sure anyone else out there has the talent to dominate. Once Djokovic goes, this guy might run the table for multiple years. 5+

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He still seems to be in great shape. And let's be honest, other than Alcaraz there aren't many players on the tour good enough for the highest level.

Yeah, exactly this.

Djokovic is far from done.

Passing of the torch seems overly dramatic phrasing. Alcaraz might be better than Djokovic now, but not by so much that it wouldn't be a toss-up the next time they play.

And as you say, the rest of the players are still worse than Djokovic. Today changed none of that. Even if Alcaraz is now the favorite, he's still young enough in his career that he can lose to Sinner or Rune or Medvedev on the right day. And if that happens, Djokovic still has a hold over those players, so Djokovic will probably still win a few more slams, whether he has to face Alcaraz to win those or not.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

The passive style of play reminded me of 2013 Finals against Andy although most of that was likely due to Del Po draining him in the SF. His serve was so good last week, but the last few matches, he wasn't getting free points as he normally has in the last few years (it has gotten better with age).

 

[Panteras]

Yeah, other than Djokovic and Alcaraz, not sure anyone else out there has the talent to dominate. Once Djokovic goes, this guy might run the table for multiple years. 5+

An era like the big 3 might not come for a long time. Carlos is poised to be the king for a long time. But for some reason Sinner really has his number.

 

[CupofOil]

Yeah, exactly this.

Djokovic is far from done.

Passing of the torch seems overly dramatic phrasing. Alcaraz might be better than Djokovic now, but not by so much that it wouldn't be a toss-up the next time they play.

And as you say, the rest of the players are still worse than Djokovic. Today changed none of that. Even if Alcaraz is now the favorite, he's still young enough in his career that he can lose to Sinner or Rune or Medvedev on the right day. And if that happens, Djokovic still has a hold over those players, so Djokovic will probably still win a few more slams, whether he has to face Alcaraz to win those or not.

Exactly, that's what I was saying earlier. Calling it a passing of the torch is too premature, there's a lot of gas left in Djokovic's tank and he now has extra motivation to get back on top which will make this an interesting summer.

Alcaraz is amazing and I immediately pegged him as a future great (and my favorite player) when I first saw him at the Winston Salem open back in 2021 but I don't think Djokovic is ready to pass the torch quite yet. It would be nice if some of the young guys rose up, Rune, Sinner etc., and created some real competition for these two like Murray and Stan, for a brief time, did in The Big 3 era.

 

[I am not exposed]

An era like the big 3 might not come for a long time. Carlos is poised to be the king for a long time. But for some reason Sinner really has his number.

Lets hope that continues to create a rivalry with these younger players

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

That may be a little premature. I wouldn't bet against Djokovic winning another major or two.

Yeah Djokovic is still favorite for next Australian Open and Nadal will still be the favorite for RG next year and if he chooses to keep playing he'll be the favorite in 2025, 2026 whatever. Alcaraz has proven himself a cut above every single other player on the tour right now though.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I don't know why this is considered such a surprise.

Not suggesting Djokovic was an underdog, but why weren't people giving Alcaraz a real chance?

Djokovic is 36. This is not his peak form. He's been the best the last few years because the competition isn't that good. That's to take nothing away from him. It's just true about the level of the competition. The best ever is better in his mid/late 30's than a bunch of players that aren't multi-slam winning type of players.

He's now playing a 20 year old who has no fear and can play at the level that the big 3 played at during their best years. 20 isn't 16. 20 might not be Alcaraz's final form, but it's plenty old enough to be able to be the best in the world.

What happened at the French Open was way overplayed by many people. Alcaraz didn't get his ass kicked. His body gave up on him. The conditions played a part in that in a way they weren't going to in this match. If it's pure play during the games they were healthy, their match at the French Open didn't show that different of a level between the two.

Experience on grass is a serious factor though, Carlos has barely played on grass in his career and there is not much opportunity to practice on it for most players which is why experienced guys like the big 4 have dominated Wimbledon the last 20 years. Saying this as an Alcaraz fan, I felt better about Carlos vs Novak in the French on clay than I did about today, definitely wasn't counting him out but I did view Djokovic as a fairly heavy favorite. He hadn't lost on this court in 10 years for a reason... I do think it's clear now that Alcaraz is the guy to beat going forward, except for a theoretically healthy Nadal at RG.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Thank you Carlos. Please do not let Djokovic be the all-time leader in Grand Slams. At all costs. It’s already a shame he’s tied with Rafa.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Experience on grass is a serious factor though, Carlos has barely played on grass in his career and there is not much opportunity to practice on it for most players which is why experienced guys like the big 4 have dominated Wimbledon the last 20 years. Saying this as an Alcaraz fan, I felt better about Carlos vs Novak in the French on clay than I did about today, definitely wasn't counting him out but I did view Djokovic as a fairly heavy favorite. He hadn't lost on this court in 10 years for a reason... I do think it's clear now that Alcaraz is the guy to beat going forward, except for a theoretically healthy Nadal at RG.

I think though that all of that goes out the door with a player like Alcaraz. If you see some of the shots he hits, maybe there's a lack of experience on grass, but no amount of experience on grass makes up for being able to pull off that type of stuff with consistency, like he's shown. Alcaraz is one of those players you could watch knowing nothing about tennis and be able to pick out very easily that what he does is in a different talent stratosphere from basically everyone other than the big 3.

And he won his most recent grass court tournament, so it wasn't like his grass court record was bad. It was just a lack of experience, not struggling on the surface.

 

[I am not exposed]

Thank you Carlos. Please do not let Djokovic be the all-time leader in Grand Slams. At all costs. It’s already a shame he’s tied with Rafa. f*** Nole!

Um. Novak Grand Slams 23.

Nadal= 22.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Um. Novak Grand Slams 23.

Nadal= 22.

Just shows you how much I’ve been following tennis since the pandemic.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

Thank you Carlos. Please do not let Djokovic be the all-time leader in Grand Slams. At all costs. It’s already a shame he’s tied with Rafa.

I really thought this was sarcasm until I saw your recent post. Wow.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

I really thought this was sarcasm until I saw your recent post. Wow.

No it was an honest mistake. I thought Nole’s recent RG win was to tie Nadal in major titles with 22. I used to follow tennis religiously, even watching 2nd round matches of 250 tournaments on illegal stream. Pretty much since Federer’s retirement (or his late-career injuries) and especially the pandemic, tennis has become meh to me. I would only watch Nadal matches.

 

[Panteras]

Lets hope that continues to create a rivalry with these younger players

I’m an Alcaraz fan but yeah I’d still want some rivalries and good competition. But it seems to be that at 20, Alcaraz is the cream of the crop and has shown that mental ability that is also needed to win. Probably all but Alcaraz would’ve folded like a lawn chair after Djoko won that 4th set and into the 5th.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Um. Novak Grand Slams 23.

Nadal= 22.

Lol yeah obviously Djokovic passed him this year and anyone who follow tennis should know that, but I have a feeling Nadal wins French next year and they both wind up tied at 23 for their careers. We'll see though, wouldn't count either of them out of winning more than 1 more slam...

 

[Tuggy]

Lol yeah obviously Djokovic passed him this year and anyone who follow tennis should know that, but I have a feeling Nadal wins French next year and they both wind up tied at 23 for their careers. We'll see though, wouldn't count either of them out of winning more than 1 more slam...

Nadal is done winning slams.

And Djokovic will finish with more than 23.