Speculation: Wilson for Hartnell

[Byrddog]

why move either? Smith has played like a top 6 forward. trading him means we need another top 6 forward to replace him.

Wilson has shown he can contribute, so you give him a chance to do it in the season this year. its possible confidence was all he lacked.

this is a team that needs to decide if next year is a 'go for it" year. if it is(and I believe it should be), then I expect to see us move picks/prospects, even top prospects, for established NHL players to shore up the secondary scoring and some extra depth at D.

If you can upgrade your top 6 at a minimal increase in CAP hit you do it every time. Imagine you have player x who is a left winger is say 26 and has scored 30 goals each of the last 3 years and he can be had for 5.5 to 6 mil it only makes sense to move Wilson and just increase your cap hit by 1.5 to 2 mil. The same can be said for Smith. Or What if you could pick up Druion for example who will be even more cost controlled. t this point it is not feasible to have guys making 4 mil on the 3rd or 4th line.

Most are so certain the cap will increase to 74 this year and continue to go up. But people need to recall that last year Buttman projected the cap would be 74 for this season and it settled down to 71. If the player org does not max the escalator there is no way it will be 74 next year and if they decide to refuse any escalation it would be 69 mil.

But even considering all of that we have seen Poile over the years just sit on his hands. As long as the team makes the playoffs. That's the frustrating thing for me anyway I want improvements to be made and I have zero confidence in Wilson now. And Hook is not a viable top 6 guy in any stretch. The 3rd line is a mismosh now as well and the team can not stand more young guys and be improved. AT this point I can care less if Smith is in the top 6 because there is no other option. But I expect more from a 4 mil player than either Smith or Wilson provide. The long periods of not hitting the scoresheet is unacceptable no matter what other attributes a player brings if both Wilson and Smith created as much as some think there assist totals would be dramatically better.

 

[Pr0fet]

If you can upgrade your top 6 at a minimal increase in CAP hit you do it every time. Imagine you have player x who is a left winger is say 26 and has scored 30 goals each of the last 3 years and he can be had for 5.5 to 6 mil it only makes sense to move Wilson and just increase your cap hit by 1.5 to 2 mil. The same can be said for Smith. Or What if you could pick up Druion for example who will be even more cost controlled. t this point it is not feasible to have guys making 4 mil on the 3rd or 4th line.

Most are so certain the cap will increase to 74 this year and continue to go up. But people need to recall that last year Buttman projected the cap would be 74 for this season and it settled down to 71. If the player org does not max the escalator there is no way it will be 74 next year and if they decide to refuse any escalation it would be 69 mil.

But even considering all of that we have seen Poile over the years just sit on his hands. As long as the team makes the playoffs. That's the frustrating thing for me anyway I want improvements to be made and I have zero confidence in Wilson now. And Hook is not a viable top 6 guy in any stretch. The 3rd line is a mismosh now as well and the team can not stand more young guys and be improved. AT this point I can care less if Smith is in the top 6 because there is no other option. But I expect more from a 4 mil player than either Smith or Wilson provide. The long periods of not hitting the scoresheet is unacceptable no matter what other attributes a player brings if both Wilson and Smith created as much as some think there assist totals would be dramatically better.

This. 16 assists on a line with Forsberg (moved around the lines a bit but 10 assists since jan 1st) is pretty weird.

 

[PredsV82]

This may be my first post here, but I've been reading the forum for years and closely following preds hockey. I would trade Wilson for a washing machine or bag of pucks. It's the same thing year in and year out. At some point you just have to write him off that he's not going to be the player everyone is waiting on him to be. Playoff production is good obviously, but regular season production moves you up the ranking for better advantages in the post season. He's had longer than he needs to get it going, and hasn't been able to get it done.

we will just have to agree to disagree. And I am one of Wilsons biggest critics. But he's got another gear, we have already paid him the money, and if he underperforms during the season next year he can be a healthy scratch but at the very least he is serviceable forward depth.

If a trade involving Wilson brings back a top 6 forward, I can live with it because it will be a wash at worst, but trading him for picks or a prospect is a waste of an asset, and its not like we are gonna need his cap space.

 

[MrJoshua]

I tend to agree although I think we might get a good draft choice for him. I believe this about Wilson; what we saw in the playoffs is indicative of the way he can play but he, for reasons known only to him, refuses to put out the required effort during the regular season. He is either lazy or didn't really want to spend his career in Nashville. He's a Boston boy. Remember that the regular season is also critically important. Had we finished ahead of San Jose and got the 4th home game, we'd be playing St Louis now. Wilson is not a top 6 forward in the regular season. At least not here.

Seeding goes top three in the division, then the wild card team. If Nashville had finished as WC1 with more points than the Sharks, the Sharks would still have had home ice advantage and higher seeding in the playoffs because they weren't the wild card team.

The only way Nashville could have played the Sharks with home ice advantage in the playoffs would have been if Nashville moved up out of a wild card position and faced off against the Blues in round 1.

 

[Filip Forceberg]

Yes, I know. But finishing with more points than the Sharks could have resulted in the Preds finishing 3rd, or 2nd or maybe even 1st. Wild card teams have more trouble in the playoffs than seeded teams (generally speaking) was my point and maybe I stated it poorly. The Sharks played well enough to get seeded and the Preds didn't. The Sharks were rewarded and the Preds weren't. The regular season is important and Wilson needs to realize that. That was really where I was going. By the way, I'm not laying that situation all on Wilson.

I'm not so sure I agree. I think the Preds actually had a much better chance reaching the Conference Finals through the Pacific division, but going 7 games in each series killed them. If the Preds beat the Ducks in 5 or 6 games, I truly believe they would have beaten the Sharks in 6.

 

[Drake744]

I'm not so sure I agree. I think the Preds actually had a much better chance reaching the Conference Finals through the Pacific division, but going 7 games in each series killed them. If the Preds beat the Ducks in 5 or 6 games, I truly believe they would have beaten the Sharks in 6.

That's great but no one could've possibly expected us to beat Anaheim in 5 games. MAYBE 6 but they're a good team. Good teams make adjustments in the playoffs and proof is the way they killed us after dropping the first two. It's not like we can say we "should've beaten them sooner".

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

I think the travel killed us more than the 7 games. The team looked exhausted at multiple points throughout the playoffs.

Flying 2,000 miles across two time zones on supposed off days 9 times in a little less than a month and then playing two tough opponents 14 times scattered in between takes its toll. Really, the only sort of breaks they had were the beginning of the playoffs where the end of the regular season was the 9th and they didn't play until the 15th, the game 7 win in Anaheim where they only had to travel from Anaheim to San Jose to play a game two days later and the built in extra day between game 6 and 7 in the Sharks series.

That's just a brutal schedule.

 

[PredsV82]

That's great but no one could've possibly expected us to beat Anaheim in 5 games. MAYBE 6 but they're a good team. Good teams make adjustments in the playoffs and proof is the way they killed us after dropping the first two. It's not like we can say we "should've beaten them sooner".

When we won the first two in Anaheim, winning in 5 or 6 should have happened. Still can't believe we crapped the bed three straight games.

 

[Filip Forceberg]

That's great but no one could've possibly expected us to beat Anaheim in 5 games. MAYBE 6 but they're a good team. Good teams make adjustments in the playoffs and proof is the way they killed us after dropping the first two. It's not like we can say we "should've beaten them sooner".

I agree about no one expecting us to beat Anaheim in 5 games, especially before the series started. I picked the Preds to win in 7. But after winning the first 2 games in Anaheim, splitting 1 game at home would have been huge.

 

[Drake744]

When we won the first two in Anaheim, winning in 5 or 6 should have happened. Still can't believe we crapped the bed three straight games.

They were the hottest team in the league since Christmas. They didn't get there without being a resilient bunch. The argument can be made that if they didn't crap the bed in the first two games by being undisciplined and running around like a bunch of idiots trying to bait us into retaliation, we could've lost that series in 6 or whatever. They put us in a position to grab that series, not the other way around. We did our job and took advantage of their idiocy early on, but they were competent enough (eventually) to pull their **** together, play their game and they beat us in 3 straight. We won when it mattered most, but to "expect" to just get rid of the league's hottest team in 5 games just because we won the first 2 in their place is a little optimistic. I'll give you 6 games maybe should've happened, but it is what it is. Plus, winning in 6 games would've saved a game but wouldn't have saved travel. We flew to Anaheim to play game 7 and then just flew an hour to San Jose to start that series. Even if we won in 6 in Nashville, we still would've turned around and flown out to CA either way.

I think the travel killed us more than the 7 games. The team looked exhausted at multiple points throughout the playoffs.

Flying 2,000 miles across two time zones on supposed off days 9 times in a little less than a month and then playing two tough opponents 14 times scattered in between takes its toll. Really, the only sort of breaks they had were the beginning of the playoffs where the end of the regular season was the 9th and they didn't play until the 15th, the game 7 win in Anaheim where they only had to travel from Anaheim to San Jose to play a game two days later and the built in extra day between game 6 and 7 in the Sharks series.

That's just a brutal schedule.

The same thing happened in 2011 when we went back to back series in Anaheim and Vancouver. You could tell though that all the energy they had in the second half of the SJ series came from the environment at the home games. Starting in the multiple OTs in game 4 then game 6 we looked like a team who was hanging on for dear life but the crowd got them through it and we won. On the road in games 5 and 7 in their building with no rowdy fans behind them they looked straight up awful.

 

[jwhouk]

1. Preds won't make it to the WC Final until we win the division outright. And that ain't gonna happen until we're not in the same division as CHI/STL.

2. Hartnell returning is under Wolfe's Law: "You can't go home again."

 

[PredsV82]

More like wilson and a 2nd round pick and a mid level prospect for Hartnell

we need to add forward depth, not exchange it. trading Wilson for another forward may increase the quality of the player in the spot that was Wilsons, but still leaves us with a need for a true top 6 guy to bump Jarnkrok down.

 

[PredsV82]

Agree. And i dont think Poile as the guts to go get a good top 6 forward via trade. And i dont think nashville will spend in free agents or overpaie for them

why would you say that after he has acquired James Neal and Ryan Johansen via trade in each of the last two years? Youre talking about Poile like he was 5 years ago when we still had an internal budget.

 

[PredsV82]

Everybody knows that Laviolette pulled the trigger on Johansen vs jones trade. And the Neal trade wasnt really an upgrated imo. They both have similar goals number but i guess they wanted a pure sniper

"everybody" -= you apparently because that's the first ive seen or heard of it

ok that makes no sense. If Lavy "pulled the trigger" on a trade(which he obviously cant do by himself) then why cant he pull that trigger again?

And Hornqvist a 3rd liner at even strength, but a power play specialist. neal is a true top 6 winger and a sniper. It was most definitely an upgrade to our top 6.

 

[triggrman]

Everybody knows that Laviolette pulled the trigger on Johansen vs jones trade. And the Neal trade wasnt really an upgrated imo. They both have similar goals number but i guess they wanted a pure sniper

I have honestly never heard anyone say that....

 

[PredsV82]

The coach as alot more say than you think. They talk everyday, Poile knows how Laviolette wants to built is team. Its a relationship if the gm and coach dont trust each other your not going anywhere

well no kidding, but you make it sound like Laviolette made Poile trade for Johansen against his will.

 

[Byrddog]

why would you say that after he has acquired James Neal and Ryan Johansen via trade in each of the last two years? Youre talking about Poile like he was 5 years ago when we still had an internal budget.

DSoc what you say is true and there is a article in hockey news about that topic in particular. The reporter indicated that Poile had the cap to sign one more but then he is limited with what he can pay Neal and RJ when there contracts hit his desk. So will he go after a F/A or trade a package to get another piece right now? It may hinge on what he has to pay Forsberg. Yes its reported thats what hes working on right now. But if he spends it better be on a non miss or he could blow the cap for a number of years.

 

[PredsV82]

No one is going to say it. Its common sense. poile never makes a big trade in 20 years then he gets a new cosch then BAM a first line center. Its hard to believe Poile did all that by himself

now youre just being silly.

from trading away Mike Dunham when he was our starter to trading for Peter Forsberg, Poile has made his share of "big" trades

 

[PredsV82]

No no no. They both agreed on it but im sure Laviolette push really hard for it

well, then that doesn't reflect negatively on Poile

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Poile had never done it because the stars hadn't perfectly aligned like they did this time.

Columbus puts a fallen out of favor, young, 1st line C on the table. They want a young potential franchise defender in exchange. The Preds at the time were having a really hard time scoring. Our top 4 on defense were set for years to come.

It's the perfect storm for Poile to cash in. Did Lavy push for the trade? Maybe. Did he have anything to do with actually pulling the trigger on that trade? Not a chance.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

In 20 years theirs maybe 3 significant trades that he made. The rest of them no one remembers because no one cares because they where small trades that didnt change anything

What teams make huge trades every year?

In the last 3 years he's gotten us Forsberg, Neal and Johansen through trades. Literally an entire top line.

 

[Byrddog]

Avalanche, Anahein, La, Chicago to name a few

I agree teams that have been there before and know what depth is. Chicago makes moves every year to position themselves. I guess the thing is the Preds have never had a roster that just needed depth additions we always have a hole or two that needed to be filled before stocking up for a run.

 

[KreamofAskarov]

Avalanche, Anahein, La, Chicago to name a few

Colorado is not in the same league as those other teams. They trade their best players for picks and prospects. Those other teams you mentioned trade to actually get better and compete.