Willing or unwilling to trade Zadorov in a hypothetical ROR trade?

[jvirk]

Only willing to give up McCabe + our later 1st + NYI 2nd...not going to include Zadorov..that's just dumb

 

[Zip15]

In a heartbeat. I'd prefer another way to do it, but if this is what it came down to, I'm doing it.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

We can't people just wait until ROR becomes a UFA? He will be.

 

[Zip15]

We can't people just wait until ROR becomes a UFA? He will be.

For reasons already hashed out in several threads that I'm not going to reargue. Specifically, if he goes to UFA, the chances of Buffalo retaining him in the long-term drop significantly. I disagree with the premise that he's going to UFA, regardless, so if you believe otherwise, there's our impasse. But I don't think that he'll sign with Buffalo if we're competing with the amount of teams who'd be after ROR as a UFA.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

For reasons already hashed out in several threads that I'm not going to reargue. Specifically, if he goes to UFA, the chances of Buffalo retaining him in the long-term drop significantly. I disagree with the premise that he's going to UFA, regardless, so if you believe otherwise, there's our impasse. But I don't think that he'll sign with Buffalo if we're competing with the amount of teams who'd be after ROR as a UFA.

Right, we never had repeat threads with alternating titles...your smugness aside trading for ROR and thinking he wont hit UFA is just as silly. From everything that has happened with ROR and contracts it clearly points to this guy wanting to hit UFA.
Or do people just automatically assume Pegula bucks are more impressive once ROR plays on the team?

 

[stokes84]

Right, we never had repeat threads with alternating titles...your smugness aside trading for ROR and thinking he wont hit UFA is just as silly. From everything that has happened with ROR and contracts it clearly points to this guy wanting to hit UFA.
Or do people just automatically assume Pegula bucks are more impressive one ROR plays on the team?

For one thing, Colorado isn't a cap team. One of the reasons ROR has so much speculation surrounding him is that many think Colorado won't dish out money + term. If Murray doesn't see a plan where he's willing to give him good money and good term, he wouldn't look to trade for him.

 

[joshjull]

Right, we never had repeat threads with alternating titles...your smugness aside trading for ROR and thinking he wont hit UFA is just as silly. From everything that has happened with ROR and contracts it clearly points to this guy wanting to hit UFA.
Or do people just automatically assume Pegula bucks are more impressive one ROR plays on the team?

The start of his problems with Avs management was their willingness to commit big money over several years to Duchene but wouldn't with him. Not sure how that has any bearing on how he would handle things with another team if they were willing to pony up the money he wanted long term.

 

[joshjull]

Because it's essentially giving him a NTC.

While I understand what youre saying. The flip side is letting a team talk to him may be the only way to seal a deal or get a specific player/prospect the Avs want. To use the thread topic to make the example. If Colorado wanted Zads in the deal from our end. We could say they only way that happens is if we can talk to ROR's camp first about an extension. In that circumstance I find it hard to believe the Avs would balk at letting us talk with him.

 

[Beerz]

While I understand what youre saying. The flip side is letting a team talk to him may be the only way to seal a deal or get a specific player/prospect the Avs want. To use the thread topic to make the example. If Colorado wanted Zads in the deal from our end. We could say they only way that happens is if we can talk to ROR's camp first about an extension. In that circumstance I find it hard to believe the Avs would balk at letting us talk with him.

Of course it's a possibility... but it rarely happens and opens a Pandoras Box if it back fires on the Avs.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

For one thing, Colorado isn't a cap team. One of the reasons ROR has so much speculation surrounding him is that many think Colorado won't dish out money + term. If Murray doesn't see a plan where he's willing to give him good money and good term, he wouldn't look to trade for him.

I don't believe Colorado is so much the issue as ROR wants to go to UFA and decide his own fate much like Suter or Parise.

I see Colorado trading him at the deadline if he is not resigned. If Murray trades for an unsigned ROR and ROR doesn't sign it will be a huge blunder.

 

[joshjull]

Of course it's a possibility... but it rarely happens and opens a Pandoras Box if it back fires on the Avs.

The entire ROR situation rarely happens.

What exactly is "backfiring" in this situation to you? At worst they can't trade him to certain teams. But thats going to happen if they don't let him talk with those teams anyway. At least if they want a good return. So how does this make things worse?


Any team looking to acquire ROR is doing so with the intention of signing him to a long term extension. I find it hard to believe teams will go on blind faith in a trade and not want to get some idea from ROR's camp if he will extend with them. The Avs would be cutting of their nose to spite their face not letting teams talk with him. Because they will either not be able to trade him or greatly reduce what they get if they do.

 

[joshjull]

I don't believe Colorado is so much the issue as ROR wants to go to UFA and decide his own fate much like Suter or Parise.

I see Colorado trading him at the deadline if he is not resigned. If Murray trades for an unsigned ROR and ROR doesn't sign it will be a huge blunder.

You can make up all kinds of things about ROR's intentions if you like. But its been made pretty clear that a rift was created between ROR's camp and the Avs management. Some of the reasons have been listed in this thread and others. To pretend thats not involved in this is pretty silly. Had he been given an extension similar to Duchene's a few years back we wouldn't be talking about him as a trade target right now.

 

[haseoke39]

Are you willing or unwilling to include Nikita Zadorov in a deal for ROR? ..

Not willing.

 

[Moskau]

The biggest issue with RoR is that his camp doesn't want to extend according to McKenzie. The reasoning is that he doesn't want to sign a 6 year contract with Colorado and then get shipped off to an undesirable team before any contract clauses kick in. Joe Sakic has said every time when asked that Colorado wants to extend him but they will also not lose him for nothing. So the 2016 trade deadline sounds more and more likely. Colorado is going to do their best to really woo RoR over these next 6-8 months. If the team is firing on all cylinders they may be able to convince him to extend before the trade deadline. If not then he's a goner and they likely lose a lot of value on him at the TDL.

I think Buffalo would be a great spot for him but I also think it's a huge risk and his camp wants him to be on a team where he's the go to guy. I'm not sure being traded to a team that is drafting Eichel this year and drafted Reinhart last is too appealing for a guy who wants to be the top dog, likely wants to be the #1 center and likely wants to be the eventual team captain. You can promise him #1 Center duties this season but I'm sure his camp is smart enough to see that likely wont last. You can offer him top line winger duties with Jack Eichel but Colorado can offer the same thing with MacKinnon.

A lot of this is why I think Colorado eventually has to let him talk to teams ahead of time. RoR extended would be one of the more valuable returns that has happened in the NHL recently. I think a team that can offer him everything he wants like New Jersey would be all over the situation.

 

[Beerz]

The entire ROR situation rarely happens.

What exactly is "backfiring" in this situation to you? At worst they can't trade him to certain teams. But thats going to happen if they don't let him talk with those teams anyway. At least if they want a good return. So how does this make things worse?


Any team looking to acquire ROR is doing so with the intention of signing him to a long term extension. I find it hard to believe teams will go on blind faith in a trade and not want to get some idea from ROR's camp if he will extend with them. The Avs would be cutting of their nose to spite their face not letting teams talk with him. Because they will either not be able to trade him or greatly reduce what they get if they do.

What could backfire on the Avs? ...

-- Sabres offer NYI 1st and Bailey for ROR.

-- Avs say they want the 1st and Zadorov.

-- Sabres say they would need assurances from ROR.

-- Avs agree to allow it.

-- ROR makes it clear to Buffalo managment that he has no desire to re-up in Buffalo. He may make it clear that he intends to go to Free Agency.

-- Knowing this. Buffalo not only withdraws their 1st and Zadorov offer .. they withdraw their 1st and Bailey offer.

Word gets out ROR plans to go to UFA or will only accept a trade to team X.

 

[Moskau]

What could backfire on the Avs? ...

-- Sabres offer NYI 1st and Bailey for ROR.

-- Avs say they want the 1st and Zadorov.

-- Sabres say they would need assurances from ROR.

-- Avs agree to allow it.

-- ROR makes it clear to Buffalo managment that he has no desire to re-up in Buffalo. He may make it clear that he intends to go to Free Agency.

-- Knowing this. Buffalo not only withdraws their 1st and Zadorov offer .. they withdraw their 1st and Bailey offer.

Word gets out ROR plans to go to UFA or will only accept a trade to team X.

Colorado could get an equal return to NYI 1st + Bailey at the Trade Deadline then. That's basically the going rate for a top rental anyways.

 

[Zip15]

Right, we never had repeat threads with alternating titles...your smugness aside trading for ROR and thinking he wont hit UFA is just as silly. From everything that has happened with ROR and contracts it clearly points to this guy wanting to hit UFA.
Or do people just automatically assume Pegula bucks are more impressive once ROR plays on the team?

It's smug to point out that an issue has been belabored elsewhere and that I'd rather not re-enact an entire argument? Okay. Everything about ROR points to him wanting to be compensated like he is a top player on a team. If Pegula, or any other owner, can give him that without needing UFA, I don't see why he doesn't take it.

He's not coming to Buffalo in UFA. They need to get him here before that point.

 

[Beerz]

Colorado could get an equal return to NYI 1st + Bailey at the Trade Deadline then. That's basically the going rate for a top rental anyways.

Maybe. Not a given. You think Chicago or The Kings or whoever are going to have Cap Space for him? Avs will have very limited options .. with little to no leverage at all.

 

[TehDoak]

Let's go over the assumptions that need to be made before I put my answer into the poll:

A) Colorado is even looking to trade Ryan O'Reilly. He leads all their forwards in ice time, we all talk about how versatile he is. Why would Colorado even trade him? They aren't that cap-locked.
B) Buffalo is interested in bringing him in. He does seem to fit the description of what Murray talked about in bringing another player in. So, I'll go ahead and assume that Buffalo IS interested, especially considering Bob M's comments about him and Buffalo earlier this year
C) The Avalanche are looking for futures and not immediate help. If I am Colorado AND I'm looking at moving Ryan O'Reilly....I'm looking for immediate help, not a prospect D-man. I think we can all agree Zadorov needs more seasoning. Why not look at a team with great defensive depth like Nashville?

This whole "Zadorov + for RoR" theory has really taken a life of its own. It's one trade proposal that people assume Colorado would be like "Ok sure, that works, let's go". It's never that simple.

 

[Heraldic]

The entire ROR situation rarely happens.

Pending UFAs rarely get traded? Not really the case. This isn't really any different than with Vanek or Spezza.

What exactly is "backfiring" in this situation to you? At worst they can't trade him to certain teams. But thats going to happen if they don't let him talk with those teams anyway. At least if they want a good return. So how does this make things worse?

What it means? Well... If Murray is confident he is able to extend RoR, but not sure about it. Then he learns that RoR is absolutely hitting free agenzy. He offers nothing, absolutely nothing. The same applies to every team in similar situation. Then the only teams that might be interested about him are teams that are looking for a rental, and they most likely aren't willing to offer anything too valuable.

Team being confident about re-signing RoR will offer more for him than a team that knows he is going to be only one year rental. That's pretty simple.

Any team looking to acquire ROR is doing so with the intention of signing him to a long term extension. I find it hard to believe teams will go on blind faith in a trade and not want to get some idea from ROR's camp if he will extend with them. The Avs would be cutting of their nose to spite their face not letting teams talk with him. Because they will either not be able to trade him or greatly reduce what they get if they do.

Ottawa took a risk with Bobby Ryan. It paid off. Dallas took a risk with Spezza. It paid off. Islanders took a risk with Vanek. It backfired them. Islanders took a risk with Johnny Boychuk. It paid off.

Or are you saying that the teams acquiring the player in ANY of those situations were negotiating before-hand?

It really isn't that complicated.

You can make up all kinds of things about ROR's intentions if you like. But its been made pretty clear that a rift was created between ROR's camp and the Avs management. Some of the reasons have been listed in this thread and others. To pretend thats not involved in this is pretty silly. Had he been given an extension similar to Duchene's a few years back we wouldn't be talking about him as a trade target right now.

And Sakic and Roy weren't in the management then. Why RoR would hold grudge against persons not even involved what happened back then?

 

[Heraldic]

Colorado could get an equal return to NYI 1st + Bailey at the Trade Deadline then. That's basically the going rate for a top rental anyways.

Well, it really wasn't 2014. You just never know how the market settles itself. And the 2016 draft will be worse than the upcoming one.

 

[Jim Bob]

Zadorov is one of the young guys that I wouldn't move in a deal for ROR.

Well, unless the offer is Zadorov straight up for ROR or a minor sweetener on the Sabres side like the NYI 2nd.

 

[StlSwedes]

Interesting how often I have seen Zads in proposals for ROR and the consensus is overwhelmingly against the idea. IMO, I believe the ROR is a pipe dream for us to salivate over all season but never really had a chance. Colorado resigns or he goes elsewhere in free agency.

I lived in Denver for the last 12 years and every week during the season for the last two, Patrick Roy speaks with the local sports radio channel and he always states how much he loves ROR's game. With Sakic and Roy running the show I believe ROR stays.

 

[dasaybz]

I really don't want to make anymore huge trades. I want to see this team take on a life of its own, and let all these prospects develop. I loved the Kane trade, but now let's see what we got. Let's see if all these young guys we have are going to step up and be NHLers. If this team really needs the help in a year or so, then I'll look for another massive trade, but unless I can get a guy for like a first and a Bailey, or something like that, then I'm not really interested.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

Willing, but it doesn't matter.

ROR looks like a classic case of a young man wanting to test free agency.