Tribute William Nylander Discussion Thread: Ya Gotta Be Blessed Edition

[Nithoniniel]

So Marner is being penalized for empty net points?

Should his defensive dependability(I can only assume the holy savioir keefe is trusted to make the right choices about who is superior on defence since babcock was ruining everything and keefe is Jack Adams himself from what I see from fans) not bridge the gap between primary points and maybe even let raw total points reign?

He's not being penalized. He's just not getting a huge advantage from it, which kind of defeats the purpose of comparing them.

You are very welcome to look at more things than just points. In fact, my main point was that you shouldn't just use raw points.

Edit: I'd like to point out that I'm not sure if Willy has been better than Marner, and I definitely don't want to pile on now when the latter is struggling. Everybody struggles at times, and Marner - like Nylander last year - has people looking for flaws because of how the contract negotiations went.

 

[Didalee Hed]

He's not being penalized. He's just not getting a huge advantage from it, which kind of defeats the purpose of comparing them.

You are very welcome to look at more things than just points. In fact, my main point was that you shouldn't just use raw points.

No no no I’m not saying that only raw points matter. I’m saying that I don’t see why Marner and his empty net points are lesser. Isn’t keefe good and smart and great? He’s the one giving Marner empty net ice time that generates empty net points. Isn’t that meaning Marner is pretty reliable defensively over Nylander? And does that apparently defensive superiority maybe suggest his raw points over Nylander maybe even means something?

 

[Farsailor]

Nylander has 58 points in 67 games.
Marner has 65 points in 58 games.

Who has outperformed who?

They are both great players. But to be fair. Nylander has scored 30 goals (like 8 game winners) and play 3 minutes less a game in avg.

But what really matters is the level of effort and contribution and as for now, or even the whole season, Nylander deserves that "A" more than Mitch in my book.

 

[Nithoniniel]

No no no I’m not saying that only raw points matter. I’m saying that I don’t see why Marner and his empty net points are lesser. Isn’t keefe good and smart and great? He’s the one giving Marner empty net ice time that generates empty net points. Isn’t that meaning Marner is pretty reliable defensively over Nylander? And does that apparently defensive superiority maybe suggest his raw points over Nylander maybe even means something?

Regarding the empty net question, my position is that it's much better to bring up playing those crucial last minutes as a separate point, sort of like his shorthanded work.

When just talking about the points, you need context. By my calculations last year, a player was eight times more likely to get a point with the net empty. I don't think it's particularly fair to give that equal weight in a comparison to an even strength point that is generally hard fought for. That's a bit like saying two 50 point seasons are equally impressive, but one player only got 1 minute of PP per game while the other got 5. The latter perhaps deserved that extra PP time, but that also means that you should expect more production too.

Nylander has been better from a contextualized production standpoint. However, Marner is great on the PK and is taking some very important minutes for us. Perhaps that evens out?

 

[Didalee Hed]

I would think given the context that you bring up that the very least they are equal.

 

[horner]

If I was Keefe I would double shift Nylander and Mathews on the 3 Rd line

Nylander kerfoot kappy
Kerfoot Mathews kappy

 

[Nylander88]

If you watch the highlights there's a very common theme. I notice Nylander... A lot. Congrats on number 30 Willy

 

[PatrikBerglund]

As an outsider, I'd want Nylander over any other player in Toronto, regardless of cap hit.

 

[Dayjobdave]

Nylander’s goal almost made it worth it to stay up and watch the game.

He is definitely playing at a high level and looks great right now. If he can more or less keep up this level of compete and execution, he really is a star player.

Im hoping he gets over 35 goals this year.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Nylander has 58 points in 67 games.
Marner has 65 points in 58 games.

Who has outperformed who?

Nylander. Matthew's has dragged that corpse of Mitch Marner up and down the ice all season.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

What a stud.

 

[BertCorbeau]

What a difference a year makes.

 

[Myopic]

A big part of Nylander's success this year is his strength. He's obviously spent a lot of time in the gym working on his strength and it shows on the ice.

A lot of the Swedes have that Viking blood and get ripped as they get mature. Willy is not afraid to go into the difficult areas of the ice.

Nick Lidstrom for instance was a beast physically, a fact that is not known by most of the public.

 

[Leafs87]

He’s been better than Marner lately

 

[Nithoniniel]

I would think given the context that you bring up that the very least they are equal.

Sure. I have no idea where I stand. Because of the reignited Nylander-Marner wars, I'm not even interested in trying to figure it out. I love both, and hot streaks or struggles either way won't change that.

 

[PromisedLand]

He’s been better than Marner lately

Lately?

willy has been better for more than 50% of the season and he is carrying JT’s abysmal play.

if Willy was playing with Matthews he might be leading the leafs in scoring

 

[stickty111]

Ian Tulluch gave Nylander a 5 star performance and the game ball for the 2nd straight game. He now has 11 on the season. The most of any other leaf. Here is what he said.


Game Ball : William Nylander (LW, #88) — I think a lot of Leafs fans need to admit they were wrong about William Nylander. I know a lot of us grew frustrated after his contract negotiation lasted until Dec. 1, which only got worse when he failed to produce. But it’s time to admit that he’s the best value contract in the organization.

He’s been on a tear offensively, but more importantly, he’s combining his elite skill with strong defensive play. I’ve always wanted to see Nylander engage more defensively because I believed in his 200-foot potential. He seems to be putting it all together this season, scoring his 30th goal of the season while dominating play (again) at even strength.

 

[yubbers]

He just keeps impressing. The effort on that goal last night was fantastic.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd like to see him physically engage defensively on the Leafs.
I want to see unicorns.

 

[Willy Stylez]

I'd like to see him physically engage defensively on the Leafs.
I want to see unicorns.

Would be interesting to see Kefee challenging him and put him on some PK's. Put him with kappy and wouldn't be chocked to see him do well, could be another opportunity for him to grow as a player and give the team another tool to use.

 

[saltming]

Why are we comparing nylander to marner? I mean I get the idea some posters have a favorite player and want that player to be the best, but it seems strange to me. They are both great hockey players on our team. We are lucky to have them both.
Shouldn't be be comparing nylander to vesey, as that's who the pundits were saying would make nylander expendable if the leafs acquired him?

 

[Menzinger]

Would be interesting to see Kefee challenging him and put him on some PK's. Put him with kappy and wouldn't be chocked to see him do well, could be another opportunity for him to grow as a player and give the team another tool to use.

Honestly id like to see that as an experiment too.

Hes a player who seems to thrives on responsibility. Give him a few new challenges and see how he fairs

 

[Willy Stylez]

Honestly id like to see that as an experiment too.

Hes a player who seems to thrives on responsibility. Give him a few new challenges and see how he fairs

Agreed he seems to respond well to responsibility, and he's been clearly talking about it (Offensive side of the game). Try do challenge him in the defensive parts would be interesting to see how he will respond, I do feel he has a lot more to give.

 

[McClelland]

Really happy for Nylander, everyone who knows the game saw the elite potentional but i didnt think he would get the chance to play prime time in a crowded Leafs. Luckily for him a new coach gave him that chance and he took it.

He would have 15 p more at least if Keefe let him play Am wing for a full season.

I Understand why Keefe gave a struggling Marner AM, to get both toplines going, Nylander to kick life in Tavares.

Its a sort of promotion in the hiearchy for W.N , its bad for his total points but good for the team, and its after all a team sport.

But its pretty hilarious though that Mitch earns almost 4m more a year, it isnt good if you cant live up to your contract especially when you suck out every cent to get it.

 

[ottomaddox]

Ian Tulluch gave Nylander a 5 star performance and the game ball for the 2nd straight game. He now has 11 on the season. The most of any other leaf. Here is what he said.


Game Ball : William Nylander (LW, #88) — I think a lot of Leafs fans need to admit they were wrong about William Nylander. I know a lot of us grew frustrated after his contract negotiation lasted until Dec. 1, which only got worse when he failed to produce. But it’s time to admit that he’s the best value contract in the organization.

He’s been on a tear offensively, but more importantly, he’s combining his elite skill with strong defensive play. I’ve always wanted to see Nylander engage more defensively because I believed in his 200-foot potential. He seems to be putting it all together this season, scoring his 30th goal of the season while dominating play (again) at even strength.

I love spiteful bloggers who want to prove leaf fans were wrong. I can't wait for his blog next season: "Leaf Fans were wrong about Denis Malgin".