Will there be another player like Datsyuk?

[Jake Hoyt]

I think Kucherov is the new Datsyuk

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Jonathan Toews.
/thread

ANY MANY MORE

I actually thought your first post was a joke, so I laughed. Then I saw your second one, and then I cried.

 

[Volica]

I don't think we'll ever see something Datsyukian again.
You're talking about a top 5 best hands in the NHL (arguably the best). You're talking top 5 best 200 foot games in the NHL; and you're talking about someone that while he was playing was never getting the true respect he deserved and a guy who just won. And won a lot.

Guy was more generational than he's given credit. Really the best Russian player to arguably play over the past 25 years (including Ovi, a prime Kovy, etc), but who rarely got the time of day because of the company he had.

 

[Birko19]

Another fun Datsyuk highlight.

Seeing him as a non-fighter (5'11" 194 lbs) holding his own against mega-tool Perry (6'3" 210 lbs).




Watching the other highlights, he always seemed to know the exact best moment for a stick lift. He was seriously like the Harlem Globetrotters on ice.

The guy was truly the most complete player I have ever seen, adding to the clip you posted, Pavel was a strong man:

 

[ArGarBarGar]

There is no comparison. Mcdavid won the scoring race by 11 points. Datsyuks best offensive season he lost by 15 points. When Kane won last year he won it by 17 points.

We are talking about 32 and 26 point gaps between datsyuk relative to peers and offensive greats like mcdavid and kane. There is simply no offensive comparison. Its just datsyuk romanticism taking highlights and stretching to assume his production was at that level, it wasnt. And in his 97 point seasons, an absurd number of the points came on the power play. Just fortunate to be on a power play with lidstrom and be in a distributor role.

Wait, what kind of math is this?

You don't just add them together.

 

[authentic]

I hope there's another like him in the future, he was certainly a rare and unique talent that was pretty much electrifying every time he was on the ice. Opposing coaches must have been happy to see him retire.

To think that the Wings have produced guys like Datsyuk, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Yzerman is pretty incredible.

Arguably the top 5 two way players of the past 25 years. Atleast 5 of the top 10.

 

[authentic]

Not many guys have highlights when matched up against the defensive nightmare of Bergeron/Chara like the one you just posted.

Here's a couple more typical games from him while against Boston:

These videos are insane. I just laugh at anyone who thinks he wasn't on Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin's level. He was playing a different, and IMO better game than anyone of the modern era.

 

[authentic]

"my guy couldn't do it, so kane and mcdavid couldn't either" lol, kane and mcdavid have posted truly dominant offensive seasons, datsyuk didn't come close to the leader across his best seasons, not even close.

106 points when goals per game were 2.71 and power play opps per game were 3.1 vs
97 points when goals per game were 2.91 and power play opps per game were 4.2

not even close

trying to equate datsyuks offense to guys in another offensive tier like kane and mcdavid is attempting to fit skills and production to a player that simply didn't have them.

Datsyuk didn't even get the powerplay time those guys did at the time anyway. Over 5 minutes per game for Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin vs 3 something for Datsyuk. Considering their roles and deployment of ice time at even strength and powerplay, Datsyuk was offensively extremely close to them from 2007-09, that's not even considering his otherwordly defense and possession game. Then there's also this to consider, 27 year old Crosby's points per game 1.09, 36 year old Datsyuk 1.03. Let's not even begin to compare Toews to him here.

 

[DanZ]

"my guy couldn't do it, so kane and mcdavid couldn't either" lol, kane and mcdavid have posted truly dominant offensive seasons, datsyuk didn't come close to the leader across his best seasons, not even close.

106 points when goals per game were 2.71 and power play opps per game were 3.1 vs
97 points when goals per game were 2.91 and power play opps per game were 4.2

not even close

trying to equate datsyuks offense to guys in another offensive tier like kane and mcdavid is attempting to fit skills and production to a player that simply didn't have them.

Wow, you posted actual stats instead of a massively flawed comparison. Glad we were able to move past that terrible argument.

I have little doubt that Datsyuk could have won an Art Ross if he was told to focus only on offense and ignore defensive responsibilities like Kane. It is certainly arguable and is obviously close, despite your flawed arguments.

 

[grN1g]

Datsyuk was 1 in a million type player and nobody really comes close to a comparison besides maybe McDavid.

Guy could do it all, was an exceptional skater on top of everything already mentioned in the op, but what really sets him apart from players like Toews for example was what a game breaker he could really be night in and night out. The guy was a stud in all 3 zones of the ice and his offense never suffered, I doubt we will ever see that kind of combination of talent, IQ, and skating ability again with the possible exception of McDavid.

 

[SamuraiSword]

Ryan Nugent Hopkins

 

[RDTBay4]

I think Kucherov is the new Datsyuk

Kucherov's game is much more similar to Mogilny than Datsyuk.

Drouin tries to make moves like Datsyuk and sometimes does pretty well, but he isn't as good of a finisher or defender. He has flashes though.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Ryan Nugent Hopkins

Oh my...

 

[Kirk Mclean]

Nico Hirscher

 

[Binister]

Jonathan Toews.
/thread

Joke of the century. Datsyuk was a beast, Toews an overrated dynasty center.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Wow, you posted actual stats instead of a massively flawed comparison. Glad we were able to move past that terrible argument.

I have little doubt that Datsyuk could have won an Art Ross if he was told to focus only on offense and ignore defensive responsibilities like Kane. It is certainly arguable and is obviously close, despite your flawed arguments.

Lol, another made up hypothetical. He could have done this if that, kane and mcdavid couldnt have dine this if that blah blah.

The reality is kane and mcdavid have dominant art ross seasons where they put up huge gaps between them and 2nd place. In datsyuks best offensive seasons (which absurdly are being compared to actual offensive wizards because "youtubez tho") he didnt even sniff the leader finishing 15 or 16 points behind. Nowhere close.

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

Lol, another made up hypothetical. He could have done this if that, kane and mcdavid couldnt have dine this if that blah blah.

The reality is kane and mcdavid have dominant art ross seasons where they put up huge gaps between them and 2nd place. In datsyuks best offensive seasons (which absurdly are being compared to actual offensive wizards because "youtubez tho") he didnt even sniff the leader finishing 15 or 16 points behind. Nowhere close.

Yet he had a better pt/60 than everyone in the league for those who played a majority of the season. Goes to show you, that deployment and ice times are a HUGE HUGE factor, not only that but his defensive mentality which affects his position and play contribute to a less offensive approach.


08-09'
Malkin 113 pts 3.67 pt/60 >> TOI/Gm 22:31 PP TOI/Gm 5:33
Ovechkin 110 pts 3.63 pt/60 >> TOI/Gm 23:00 PP TOI/Gm 5:24
Crosby 103 pts 3.66 pt/60 >>TOI/Gm 21:56 PP TOI/Gm 5:22
Datsyuk 97 pts 3.75 pt/60 >> TOI/Gm 19:12 PP TOI/Gm 3:23

Link shows season pt/60 leaders
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...aters&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

So despite, less favorable ice times, and deployment, Datsyuk had arguably a better offensive season. Lets recap, he was the only one with any reasonable shorthanded time and played 2 mins less of PP time a game than those above him, yet had a better pt/60.

 

[Plante]

Let me answer all your questions of "Will there ever be another -"

The answer is yes.

Next question?

 

[The Toews Era*]

Yet he had a better pt/60 than everyone in the league for those who played a majority of the season. Goes to show you, that deployment and ice times are a HUGE HUGE factor, not only that but his defensive mentality which affects his position and play contribute to a less offensive approach.

Not sure why you keep mentioning defense. I like two way players and agree that overall contribution is what matters. I was replying specifically to posts severely exaggerating datsyuk by saying he had the offense of kane and the defense of bergeron combined.

Hardly.

In reality he is on the spectrum of great two way players, in the same tier as toews kopitar etc but with more power play points (both due to more pps in general and being tied to the hip to lidstrom and a great power play all the time). Somewhat worse in the playoffs than those guys as well, just one cup as a top liner and lower playoff production than those guys.

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

Not sure why you keep mentioning defense. I like two way players and agree that overall contribution is what matters. I was replying specifically to posts severely exaggerating datsyuk by saying he had the offense of kane and the defense of bergeron combined.

Hardly.

In reality he is on the spectrum of great two way players, in the same tier as toews kopitar etc but with more power play points (both due to more pps in general and being tied to the hip to lidstrom and a great power play all the time). Somewhat worse in the playoffs than those guys as well, just one cup as a top liner and lower playoff production than those guys.

Read above, added some stats for context. It shows that he was as elite offensively. Again, its the distribution of ice times that allow superstars to stand above the competition over the course of 82 games.

 

[LarKing]

This thread brings joy to my heart in dark times. Damn it is fun watching Datsyuk highlights could easily do it all day.

 

[DanZ]

Not sure why you keep mentioning defense. I like two way players and agree that overall contribution is what matters. I was replying specifically to posts severely exaggerating datsyuk by saying he had the offense of kane and the defense of bergeron combined.

Hardly.

In reality he is on the spectrum of great two way players, in the same tier as toews kopitar etc but with more power play points (both due to more pps in general and being tied to the hip to lidstrom and a great power play all the time). Somewhat worse in the playoffs than those guys as well, just one cup as a top liner and lower playoff production than those guys.

The post above showed it perfectly. Again, look at actual stats like above and not worthless stats without context like who won the Art Ross in seasons with weak competition. Kane has his peak against Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin peaks and he has zero Art Rosses.

 

[Narow]

Datsyuk was just a beeeast

Elite offensively
Elite defensively
Most skilled according to many big names
One of the best players to play the game

Subjective
Most entertaining to watch

Imma watch some games fron 07-10 seasons. Any recpmmendations?

 

[The Toews Era*]

The post above showed it perfectly. Again, look at actual stats like above and not worthless stats without context like who won the Art Ross in seasons with weak competition. Kane has his peak against Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin peaks and he has zero Art Rosses.

Lol because crosby, malkin, and ovechkin were old men last year? Many many posts stating all those guys have been at or near their best recently, and are all within their athletic primes. The reality is the NHL has changed moderately, with a decline in power plays and lower, more evenly distributed scoring. That is what made Kane and Mcdavids seasons stand out that much more relative to their peers and relative to Datsyuks best seasons offensively.

 

[DanZ]

Lol because crosby, malkin, and ovechkin were old men last year? Many many posts stating all those guys have been at or near their best recently, and are all within their athletic primes. The reality is the NHL has changed moderately, with a decline in power plays and lower, more evenly distributed scoring. That is what made Kane and Mcdavids seasons stand out that much more relative to their peers and relative to Datsyuks best seasons offensively.

No, but they clearly are all passed their peaks, especially Ovechkin. If you can't see that, I can't help you. Kane has zero Art Rosses if they're at their peaks, like they were when Datsyuk was at his.