Will there be a super star for Seattle Kraken in its inaugural season?

[Fistfullofbeer]

Vegas set an unrealistic expectations for early success. I don't think they're run as bad as all that, but Seattle is a different team, formed under different circumstances.

How ever, I am not a huge fan of Francis. I'm not screaming for his head or even wondering who else is out there yet, but let's see the team before we claim it needs a new GM.

I can understand why folks have low opinions/expectations from GMRF. Same for Hakstol. But I most definitely believe in 2nd chances.

Like you said, Vegas has set unrealistic expectations for any new(er) expansion team(s). If not for the immediate success that Vegas had on the ice, I highly doubt people would be complaining about the roster that GMRF has built so far. Sure, there would be complains about picking player A over B from certain teams OR not making some trades but that is something that I am accustomed to as a hockey fan. That kind of criticism is common for pretty much every GM in the league.

The folks who have been calling for GMRF to be fired already are most certainly trying to:

- Draw parallels to what went on with Vegas in the expansion draft and their immediate success
- Build on their existing dislike for GMRF (and Hakstol)

I am pretty excited to see what the team does on the ice. I anticipate us to be a low scoring team unless Appleton/Geekie/Jarnkrok step up in expanded roles like Marchessault/Karlsson/Tuch did, but even if they don't I expect this team to be a solid defensive team giving other teams a hard time on the ice.

The biggest question mark to me is most certainly Hakstol. If he can prove that he learnt from his mistakes with the Flyers, this team can most certainly be in a fight for a playoff spot in the weak Pacific.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

If Evander Kane gets contract termination the Kraken could sign him. He would likely lead the Kraken in points.

 

[gstommylee]

If Evander Kane gets contract termination the Kraken could sign him. He would likely lead the Kraken in points.

Na no way Seattle would ever take on that mess. He has little value. too much baggage especially when some of that baggage that has the league investing him should find out soon what that investigation comes out with.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Na no way Seattle would ever take on that mess. He has little value. too much baggage especially when some of that baggage that has the league investing him should find out soon what that investigation comes out with.

I was a supporter of Kane when the Sharks signed him (was a Sharks fan before the Kraken). A lot of the fans were upset because his contract seemed like an overpayment at that time but I felt that he could justify it if he could cut down his penalty minutes. He has been a very solid player for the Sharks. Brings a lot of effort on the ice and is a genuine power forward.

That being said, I would not want him on our team. Locker room issues, gambling problems and other personnel issues as well. He could still work well under a team with established leadership, his issues were non-existent when the Sharks still had Jumbo and Pavs leading the team. However, we are a young team which does not have that. And even if we did, he would still be a risky signing given his past.

 

[Irie]

I was a supporter of Kane when the Sharks signed him (was a Sharks fan before the Kraken). A lot of the fans were upset because his contract seemed like an overpayment at that time but I felt that he could justify it if he could cut down his penalty minutes. He has been a very solid player for the Sharks. Brings a lot of effort on the ice and is a genuine power forward.

That being said, I would not want him on our team. Locker room issues, gambling problems and other personnel issues as well. He could still work well under a team with established leadership, his issues were non-existent when the Sharks still had Jumbo and Pavs leading the team. However, we are a young team which does not have that. And even if we did, he would still be a risky signing given his past.

Kane is a hell of a player, and I think you are exactly correct in that a team with solid, established leadership could probably integrate Kane and have great success.

I don't buy the narrative that all of a sudden he is a terrible teammate after so many voices in the locker-room praised him his first couple of years in San Jose.

I think the elephant in the room that no one will touch with a ten foot pole is politics. Kane was an outspoken voice for the BLM movement, and there are several known strong trump supporters on the Sharks. Seeing as just about anything related to this topic is strictly prohibited on these forums, we will just leave it as I believe there is a rift in that dressing room that probably goes far beyond Kane missing a meeting or being late here or there.

Losing Pavelski was something that that group could not overcome (he was the adult in the room imo.) While all indications state that Thornton is a fun team-mate and stand up guy, I feel that maybe he was a bit too much of a jokester and man-child goofing around with Burns, and not the best Captain the Sharks have had.

And i totally agree that Kane is not worth the risk to bring on to a new team like Seattle, regardless of his skill. Even if he integrated seamlessly, his gambling scandal is a distraction that a new team working to find it's identity would be well to avoid, just in case.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I was a supporter of Kane when the Sharks signed him (was a Sharks fan before the Kraken). A lot of the fans were upset because his contract seemed like an overpayment at that time but I felt that he could justify it if he could cut down his penalty minutes. He has been a very solid player for the Sharks. Brings a lot of effort on the ice and is a genuine power forward.

That being said, I would not want him on our team. Locker room issues, gambling problems and other personnel issues as well. He could still work well under a team with established leadership, his issues were non-existent when the Sharks still had Jumbo and Pavs leading the team. However, we are a young team which does not have that. And even if we did, he would still be a risky signing given his past.

Yeah, I think all the drama surrounding Kane just make it a no go for us to go after him.

After all, we want to establish ourselves in the community and win over undecided/casual fans to become supporters of the franchise.

BTW: I wouldn't be surprisde if Kane(if the Sharks would buy him out) would go to a team like Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington etc. and thrive under the influence of their veteran leadership.

 

[jbron]

GMRF isn't going to come near Kane. Kane brings so much baggage and Francis is just way to conservative to make such a trade.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

GMRF isn't going to come near Kane. Kane brings so much baggage and Francis is just way to conservative to make such a trade.

Agree with you that GMRF is fairly conservative but at this time, even the most aggressive of GM's would not want anything to do with Kane right now. His future is going to be driven based on if the NHL can find evidence/proof that he bet on Sharks games.

- If he did, he is likely to be suspended by the NHL and may never play in the league again.
- If he didn't, there are still the locker room issues to contend with. And his gambling debts. His contract is actually fair but the other factors are a big risk and I doubt any GM is willing to take it on. Not without very significant additions. The Sharks may buy him out (may need to wait till next season though) but even then not many teams would want to take a chance on him.

 

[LokiDog]

Morgan Geekie has the best chance to be the next William Karlsson

There's a few, IMO.

Geekie is a great choice. Appleton to me is also VERY similar to Karlsson, at a similar age, with similar prior production. And Wennberg, while a couple of years older, has extremely high pedigree and talent but just hasn't fully put it together consistently yet. This is a big opportunity for him. He's 27 years old, has put up 58 points in this league before and he'll never have a better shot at big top-six minutes than now. He also happens to be best friends with William Karlsson.

 

[Dog]

There's a few, IMO.

Geekie is a great choice. Appleton to me is also VERY similar to Karlsson, at a similar age, with similar prior production. And Wennberg, while a couple of years older, has extremely high pedigree and talent but just hasn't fully put it together consistently yet. This is a big opportunity for him. He's 27 years old, has put up 58 points in this league before and he'll never have a better shot at big top-six minutes than now. He also happens to be best friends with William Karlsson.

Thing about it is if few players can put up decent amount then should be enough production for offense. Few possibilities of what might happen but who knows about injuries, chemistry, and perhaps Kraken not done trading. I would imagine goaltending is settled but offense and possibly defense probably is not.

 

[PG Canuck]

Kane is a hell of a player, and I think you are exactly correct in that a team with solid, established leadership could probably integrate Kane and have great success.

I don't buy the narrative that all of a sudden he is a terrible teammate after so many voices in the locker-room praised him his first couple of years in San Jose.

I think the elephant in the room that no one will touch with a ten foot pole is politics. Kane was an outspoken voice for the BLM movement, and there are several known strong trump supporters on the Sharks. Seeing as just about anything related to this topic is strictly prohibited on these forums, we will just leave it as I believe there is a rift in that dressing room that probably goes far beyond Kane missing a meeting or being late here or there.

Losing Pavelski was something that that group could not overcome (he was the adult in the room imo.) While all indications state that Thornton is a fun team-mate and stand up guy, I feel that maybe he was a bit too much of a jokester and man-child goofing around with Burns, and not the best Captain the Sharks have had.

And i totally agree that Kane is not worth the risk to bring on to a new team like Seattle, regardless of his skill. Even if he integrated seamlessly, his gambling scandal is a distraction that a new team working to find it's identity would be well to avoid, just in case.

Kane is a well known dude with some issues. This dates back to his junior days, only later emphasized by his days in Winnipeg, now highlighted by what is currently happening.

He’s been a problem far longer than you’re leading on.

Besides, any Sharks player praising him as a teammate is simply doing lip service. It’s how hockey and the NHL works. No one is ever going to say anything publicly. This isn’t the NBA or NFL where players aren’t afraid to speak their mind.

 

[Irie]

Kane is a well known dude with some issues. This dates back to his junior days, only later emphasized by his days in Winnipeg, now highlighted by what is currently happening.

He’s been a problem far longer than you’re leading on.

Besides, any Sharks player praising him as a teammate is simply doing lip service. It’s how hockey and the NHL works. No one is ever going to say anything publicly. This isn’t the NBA or NFL where players aren’t afraid to speak their mind.

You missed my point.

I didn't say Kane doesn't have issues, i was merely speculating about the 180 from a select few team-mates in San Jose, all during a time when Kane is playing the best Hockey of his life. As someone that has followed Buffalo for many decades and the Sharks since their inception, I am fairly familiar with Kane and his distractions. But San Jose has a certain ideology in their dressing room currently that is at war with what Kane has spoken up for.

If you don't think that has any influence on this situation then I think you are being Naive. In a world where political rhetoric is powerful enough to tear apart families, you don't think it might have any influence over an NHL team? From leaked rumors, Kane is not the only one a certain contingency is having issues with in that mess of a locker-room in San Jose.

 

[PG Canuck]

You missed my point.

I didn't say Kane doesn't have issues, i was merely speculating about the 180 from a select few team-mates in San Jose, all during a time when Kane is playing the best Hockey of his life. As someone that has followed Buffalo for many decades and the Sharks since their inception, I am fairly familiar with Kane and his distractions. But San Jose has a certain ideology in their dressing room currently that is at war with what Kane has spoken up for.

If you don't think that has any influence on this situation then I think you are being Naive. In a world where political rhetoric is powerful enough to tear apart families, you don't think it might have any influence over an NHL team? From leaked rumors, Kane is not the only one a certain contingency is having issues with in that mess of a locker-room in San Jose.

Point is, he is a problem. He always is. It doesn’t matter what it’s about, he’s always the center of it. Maybe it’s politics I don’t know, wouldn’t be shocked and don’t really care to speculate about anything political on that nature. However he has so much baggage I don’t really care how good of a player he is.

He could come to Seattle for free and it would be a detriment.

 

[Irie]

Point is, he is a problem. He always is. It doesn’t matter what it’s about, he’s always the center of it. Maybe it’s politics I don’t know, wouldn’t be shocked and don’t really care to speculate about anything political on that nature. However he has so much baggage I don’t really care how good of a player he is.

He could come to Seattle for free and it would be a detriment.

Maybe.

It is your opinion that he can't bring more to a team than the detriment his baggage would, and I would disagree in that I have seen him first hand make teams better.

I also feel strongly that *if* the league finds him innocent of betting on NHL games, then I think there are several teams that will be interested in his services and *if* they have a strong leadership core, Kane will be integrated in and they will be better for adding him.

Granted, those are two big ifs, and I will agree with you that Seattle should have zero interest in attempting that experiment. But there is no denying that Kane brings an extremely valuable skillset that every team could use. Anyone that disagrees has not watched him play recently. He was more often than not the best player on the ice for either team in the games he played in this past season.

 

[mazmin]

Wennberg = Karlsson
Geekie/Appleton = Tuch
Gourde = Maschessault

More 5v5 and PP1 time will do wonders for these Krak picks

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Wennberg = Karlsson
Geekie/Appleton = Tuch
Gourde = Maschessault

More 5v5 and PP1 time will do wonders for these Krak picks

I definitely expect all the names you pointed out to do better under expanded roles but it would be wise for us to temper expectations. My main concern for this season is not really if we have a good team, which I feel we do, but more about how Hakstol manages this team.

Does he give the young players enough of a leash to settle into their expanded roles or does he reduce their ice-time the first time they make a mistake? The good (or bad) thing with the Kraken is that there are no 'vet' options to fall back to. A lot of teams sign aging vets for depth roles which GMRF has not, yet. If things stay that way, it will be all on the youngsters to sink or swim.

 

[kihei]

We won't have a superstar, but I believe we will have an indentity as one tough-ass team to play against. I think that is going to be more defining and more important in the first few years.

 

[garmonbozia]

I definitely expect all the names you pointed out to do better under expanded roles but it would be wise for us to temper expectations. My main concern for this season is not really if we have a good team, which I feel we do, but more about how Hakstol manages this team.

Does he give the young players enough of a leash to settle into their expanded roles or does he reduce their ice-time the first time they make a mistake? The good (or bad) thing with the Kraken is that there are no 'vet' options to fall back to. A lot of teams sign aging vets for depth roles which GMRF has not, yet. If things stay that way, it will be all on the youngsters to sink or swim.

I would really like to see one veteran center brought in on a one year deal. I know the options are quite few and not that appealing, but, I think it would really balance out the forward group if there was one more that could hold down the fort on the top line until Gourde gets healthy. Forcing too much responsibility on Wennberg to start is playing a risky game with his confidence when he really should be on one of the middle lines to put him in the best place to succeed (Gourde too for that matter).

We still don't have ANYBODY that's decent on draws. It will be tough to win the low scoring defensive games this team seems set up for if we struggle for possession on face-offs. Maybe there is a surprise waiver claim available when teams cut down their rosters or a last second trade for someone overtaken by youth in camp, but Francis shouldn't count on either. Signing Staal, Zajac, or Bozak won't break the bank. 2 of the 3 have served in a similar role previously. Even if they aren't at that level anymore they could be relied on to play responsibly and set the baseline expectation. Without committing to more than a year it would be easy to move on next offseason. If another C already on the team proves up to the challenge they have a fairly low bar to get over and we still have depth down the middle.

TLDR: Sign another center to a one year deal.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Most are picking 1 player but I contend that how the first line does will go a long ways in determining how the Seattle Kraken do...and that first line will be composed of Schwartz,Eberle and Wennberg! At least until Gourde comes back and makes a decent line with McCann and Donskoi with youngster Appleton wanting more ice time! He's the gem of the youngsters him and Beniers of course

 

[Cowumbus]

Wennberg = Karlsson
Geekie/Appleton = Tuch
Gourde = Maschessault

More 5v5 and PP1 time will do wonders for these Krak picks

No. No, no no. Wennberg is not even close to Karlsson.

Gourde and Appleton could be really good though.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

You missed my point.

I didn't say Kane doesn't have issues, i was merely speculating about the 180 from a select few team-mates in San Jose, all during a time when Kane is playing the best Hockey of his life. As someone that has followed Buffalo for many decades and the Sharks since their inception, I am fairly familiar with Kane and his distractions. But San Jose has a certain ideology in their dressing room currently that is at war with what Kane has spoken up for.

If you don't think that has any influence on this situation then I think you are being Naive. In a world where political rhetoric is powerful enough to tear apart families, you don't think it might have any influence over an NHL team? From leaked rumors, Kane is not the only one a certain contingency is having issues with in that mess of a locker-room in San Jose.

As a Canes fan watching our fan base at each other's throats over the Tony DeAngelo signing, be careful what you wish for.

You've got a great feel good story going on right now, and one guy isn't worth blowing that up for.

 

[Irie]

As a Canes fan watching our fan base at each other's throats over the Tony DeAngelo signing, be careful what you wish for.

You've got a great feel good story going on right now, and one guy isn't worth blowing that up for.

Oh, if you read my other posts in this thread then you will see that I have been absolutely against the idea of bringing Kane in from the start.

And i totally agree that Kane is not worth the risk to bring on to a new team like Seattle, regardless of his skill. Even if he integrated seamlessly, his gambling scandal is a distraction that a new team working to find it's identity would be well to avoid, just in case.

My response was mostly to play devil's advocate in the thread where some where saying that *if he were cleared of the gambling charges* that no team would have any use or want for a guy like Kane. I was never saying Kane didn't have risk, serious baggage, or issues, but the narrative has gone way beyond facts on the trade forum and is being driven mostly by speculation.

 

[Aurinko]

No. No, no no. Wennberg is not even close to Karlsson.

Gourde and Appleton could be really good though.

Donskoi = Karlsson

Not a superstar, or quite as defensively active, but important versatile player that can play against anyone. And hey, not even Karlsson was Karlsson before he moved to VGK.

 

[Kat Predator]

Donskoi = Karlsson

Not a superstar, or quite as defensively active, but important versatile player that can play against anyone. And hey, not even Karlsson was Karlsson before he moved to VGK.

And Karlsson isn't Karlsson any longer. His first year in Vegas stands out as the exception, in a hugely positive and productive way.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

And Karlsson isn't Karlsson any longer. His first year in Vegas stands out as the exception, in a hugely positive and productive way.

This is a very good point. Karlsson has been very productive in Vegas. Far more than he was before then but he averaged 0.95 PPG in his first season there. The following three seasons have been: 0.68, 0.73, 0.69 PPG.