Will Sean Couturier ever have a 50+ point and/or 25+ goal season?

[The Madrigal]

Looking at the Cup winners since the lockout, almost all of them had a Selke-award nominee/winner.

2006: Brind'Amour
2007: Don't think they had one, could be wrong, but they did have 2 perennial Norris nominees in Niedermayer and Pronger
2008: Datsyuk
2009: Staal
2010: Toews
2011: Bergeron
2012: Kopitar
2013: Toews
2014: Kopitar
2015: Toews
2016: No one, but that team was an buzzsaw from February onward, and Crosby was pretty damn good defensively in that stretch.

Even if Couturier never blossoms into the offensive contributor that we hoped he could be when he was drafted, he still provides a skillset that is almost a prerequisite for a team with Stanley Cup aspirations. Winning the lottery and drafting a center at #2 does not mean he's redundant or unnecessary; it shouldn't change anything about his status until the Flyers find another Selke contender to replace him. Or until they find a ton of future HOFers to sprinkle up and down their lineup like the 2007 Ducks or 2016 Pens.

"Selke contender??"

Sean Couturier
6 NHL seasons
0 Selke Trophies
0 Selke Nominations

 

[Ernest95]

"Selke contender??"

Sean Couturier
6 NHL seasons
0 Selke Trophies
0 Selke Nominations

selke nomination isn't even dependent on the best defensive defenseman, it seems to be based on who can put up points while being the "best" defensive forward, which sure many of those guys are good, but there are sometimes players on those teams that take more of the workload, like Kruger and toews for the blackhawks.

 

[25]

"Selke contender??"

Sean Couturier
6 NHL seasons
0 Selke Trophies
0 Selke Nominations

And Couturier's defensive metrics and usage is consistently as good or better than everyone on that list save Bergeron. The Selke award voting is quite flawed. It goes to the best offensive season among the defensive forwards. It's been 20+ years since the Selke went to someone with under 40 points. All of those players are very good defensively and were quite deserving of their award. But that doesn't mean the only worthy defensive forwards are the guys that can score too.

I used Selke nominations are the basis for that post mostly because I don't feel like going through a decade of defensive metrics to show that the best teams year after year have one of the best defensive forwards. If you like, compare what Couturier does defensively to any of those guys. At the absolute worst, he is comparable.

 

[TCTC]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths (specifically in terms of time and energy spent) that intelligent, well-informed fans will go to on these boards to go endlessly back-and-forth with people who are clearly obsessive or can't even grasp logical fallacies you're introduced to in an introductory logic class. Just let it be.

Fans who call Couturier the best defensive forward after Bergeron aren't much better. Both sides are annoying.
You know what the GDT's look like whenever he scores a goal. "Where are the haters?", "No offense Couts lol". Both sides need to stop.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Even if Couturier never blossoms into the offensive contributor that we hoped he could be when he was drafted, he still provides a skillset that is almost a prerequisite for a team with Stanley Cup aspirations. Winning the lottery and drafting a center at #2 does not mean he's redundant or unnecessary; it shouldn't change anything about his status until the Flyers find another Selke contender to replace him. Or until they find a ton of future HOFers to sprinkle up and down their lineup like the 2007 Ducks or 2016 Pens.

This is exactly how I see it as well. The whole premise of constantly looking at his points is flawed from the outset because it ignores who he is and what he does - he is our Guy Carbonneau. Like I said earlier, this all ultimately boils down to rotten apples over spoiled expectations for a #8OA draft pick.

 

[Rebels57]

This is exactly how I see it as well. The whole premise of constantly looking at his points is flawed from the outset because it ignores who he is and what he does - he is our Guy Carbonneau. Like I said earlier, this all ultimately boils down to rotten apples over spoiled expectations for a #8OA draft pick.

Ironically, not many 8OAs have the overall game impact has and will continue to have for many years.

The only player in the last 10 drafts that you could say has had a bigger impact for his team drafted 8OA is Ristolainen. W. Nylander and Werenski are too early in their careers to say they do but have the potential if they build off strong rookie seasons.

 

[TCTC]

2011 was a pretty good top 10 draft though. All of them have become solid NHL players, although in hindsight I'd only pick Scheifele ahead of Couturier.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Fans who call Couturier the best defensive forward after Bergeron aren't much better. Both sides are annoying.
You know what the GDT's look like whenever he scores a goal. "Where are the haters?", "No offense Couts lol". Both sides need to stop.

I'm not talking about making an annoying post here or there. I mean the whole arguing with a brick wall (which is the kind way of saying it half the time) for page-after-page thing. People are going to post nonsensical, knee-jerk, or obsessive things. It's a fact of life on the internet or in real life. I don't get what people think they're going to get from arguing with those types of posts and people for an amount of pages that feel innumerable. Typically just talking in circles too because, again, you might as well post to a brick wall on some occasions and those occasion are pretty easy to tell apart.

 

[TCTC]

I'm not talking about making an annoying post here or there. I mean the whole arguing with a brick wall (which is the kind way of saying it half the time) for page-after-page thing. People are going to post nonsensical, knee-jerk, or obsessive things. It's a fact of life on the internet or in real life. I don't get what people think they're going to get from arguing with those types of posts and people for an amount of pages that feel innumerable. Typically just talking in circles too because, again, you might as well post to a brick wall on some occasions and those occasion are pretty easy to tell apart.

Yeah, I agree. Threads like this are a recipe for trouble.

 

[Stizzle]

2011 was a pretty good top 10 draft though. All of them have become solid NHL players, although in hindsight I'd only pick Scheifele ahead of Couturier.

Scheifele was picked before Couturier.

 

[bobbythebrain]

2011 was a pretty good top 10 draft though. All of them have become solid NHL players, although in hindsight I'd only pick Scheifele ahead of Couturier.

Mika, Larsson and Dougie

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Scheifele was a bit controversial at the time. He was a big riser that year who didn't have a previous pedigree like others & that year was his only year to date playing in the OHL. The gamble paid off though as they got one of the best players in the draft.

 

[TCTC]

Scheifele was picked before Couturier.

I know. And he's the only of those players I'd still pick before Couturier.
Maybe Landeskog as well, but I think he's a little overrated.

 

[TCTC]

Mika, Larsson and Dougie

I wouldn't pick Zibanejad ahead of Couturier personally. Larsson and Hamilton are tough ones. Both are d-men and haven't exactly been consistent so far.

 

[Stizzle]

Fans who call Couturier the best defensive forward after Bergeron aren't much better.

I'm not sure where this is coming from. People here do say he's one of the best after Bergeron. Which seems like a fairly reasonable statement. I don't recall anyone really declaring him the obvious #2.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Going forward all that really matters is how well he can match up in consecutive playoff series' against very tough and dangerous opponents. In the east alone we will face and have to defeat teams with centers like, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Mathews and to a lesser extent but still tough Backstrom and Barkov. Once the team is good enough to make the playoffs I think you need a guy that can make a difference by neutralizing the other teams top threats. Based upon how the team is currently constructed Coots is potentially that guy. We actually need to get into the playoffs and win a series or two to really know.

 

[Hockeypete49]

For me I voted yes but his value is far more than goals. The offensive talent is there but I feel his role is 3rd line center on this club not a 2C. With 2OA pick coming this should lighten the load off both Sean and G. Plus in a year or two there is going to be a influx of forwards ready to make the jump to the team and Couts and Schenn are part of our future.

 

[McNasty]

This is exactly how I see it as well. The whole premise of constantly looking at his points is flawed from the outset because it ignores who he is and what he does - he is our Guy Carbonneau. Like I said earlier, this all ultimately boils down to rotten apples over spoiled expectations for a #8OA draft pick.

Spot on, the Flyers as a team play better when he's on the ice. People can't look past individual point totals, it wouldn't matter if they scored 10 goals for every 1 he was on the ice for, there's always some chump who goes "yeah but can he score 30 goals"?

 

[1865]

The Frank J. Selke Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.

Sean Couturier (24 Years Old)
0 Selke Trophies
0 Selke Nominations

Ryan Kesler (32 Years Old)
1 Selke Trophy
5 Selke Nominations

Jonathan Toews (29 Years Old)
1 Selke Trophy
4 Selke Nominations

Anze Kopitar (29 Years Old)
1 Selke Trophy
3 Selke Nominations

As quoted elsewhere, you must surely know that isn't the main interpretation of it now. The lowest points by a Selke winner in the past decade was 55 in 80 games by Bergeron in 14/15.

See some points below:

All players listed above are at least 5 years older than Couturier and not one of them had won it by Couturier's age. Toews won it at 25, Kesler won it at 26, Kopitar won it at 28. For all of the above, they had at least 73 points in the season.

You're really not making a strong argument here.

 

[YEM]

You're really not making a strong argument here.

or in any of the other threads
#yawn

 

[Rebels57]

or in any of the other threads
#yawn

 

[Tripod]

As quoted elsewhere, you must surely know that isn't the main interpretation of it now. The lowest points by a Selke winner in the past decade was 55 in 80 games by Bergeron in 14/15.

See some points below:

All players listed above are at least 5 years older than Couturier and not one of them had won it by Couturier's age. Toews won it at 25, Kesler won it at 26, Kopitar won it at 28. For all of the above, they had at least 73 points in the season.

You're really not making a strong argument here.

Yeah....the true explanation is that Couturier won't win a Selke for best defensive forward because he is not offensive enough on the #2PP unit.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Looking at the Cup winners since the lockout, almost all of them had a Selke-award nominee/winner.

2006: Brind'Amour
2007: Don't think they had one, could be wrong, but they did have 2 perennial Norris nominees in Niedermayer and Pronger
2008: Datsyuk
2009: Staal
2010: Toews
2011: Bergeron
2012: Kopitar
2013: Toews
2014: Kopitar
2015: Toews
2016: No one, but that team was an buzzsaw from February onward, and Crosby was pretty damn good defensively in that stretch.

Even if Couturier never blossoms into the offensive contributor that we hoped he could be when he was drafted, he still provides a skillset that is almost a prerequisite for a team with Stanley Cup aspirations. Winning the lottery and drafting a center at #2 does not mean he's redundant or unnecessary; it shouldn't change anything about his status until the Flyers find another Selke contender to replace him. Or until they find a ton of future HOFers to sprinkle up and down their lineup like the 2007 Ducks or 2016 Pens.

2007 - Sami Pahlsson was second in Selke voting, was their machup center and averaged 19:25 of ice time in playoffs. He wasn't their Kopitar, but it sure as heck seems like he was their Couts.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Yeah....the true explanation is that Couturier won't win a Selke for best defensive forward because he is not offensive enough on the #2PP unit.

Boyd Gordon, Jagr, James Neal, Kunitz, Zetterberg, O'Reilly and Carter received same amount of votes last year. Just goes to show you what a joke it is.

 

[Lord Defect]

Boyd Gordon? Lol