Will Sean Couturier ever have a 50+ point and/or 25+ goal season?

[flyers0909]

This is from about a year ago, but pretty much sums up my thoughts (and I would imagine a lot of people's thoughts from around the league). Skip to 41:20

https://hockeypdocast.com/2016/03/03/episode-67-world-cup-of-hockey-part-1/

He also got brought up on this years midseason awards podcast as a guy who they would have thought about slotting in 3rd (in Selke voting) behind Kopitar and Bergeron if he hadn't only played 20 games.

 

[jabba2]

If Couturier was on the 1 PP he would get 50 points. He also should be getting more looks as the 1# Center. Im not joking. He looks like the Flyers best 5-5 going by advanced stats even though he gets most of his faceoffs in his own zone.

 

[Rebels57]

If Couturier was on the 1 PP he would get 50 points. He also should be getting more looks as the 1# Center. Im not joking. He looks like the Flyers best 5-5 going by advanced stats even though he gets most of his faceoffs in his own zone.

If he can stay healthy he might end up 1C by end of the season. We shall see. Girouxs 5v5 production could bounce back with the talent influx around him.

 

[Random Forest]

^I've always been immensely curious how Giroux and Couturier would look together with Couturier at center. There are lots of reasons this would be a bad idea, but in a vacuum, I think it would bring out the best in both players.

 

[Rebels57]

^I've always been immensely how Giroux and Couturier would look together with Couturier at center. There are lots of reasons this would be a bad idea, but in a vacuum, I think it would bring out the best in both players.

It could happen for sure. With 2OA, Vorobyov, Rubstov all coming we will have a ton of center depth on the way. Might be a couple of seasons away though.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The Giroux-Coots combination could be interesting. Who would play LW? Voracek or Schenn? Someone else?

 

[Rebels57]

The Giroux-Coots combination could be interesting. Who would play LW? Voracek or Schenn? Someone else?

Would depend on when this happens..but for the sake of discussion if it happens in 16-17..

Voracek - Couturier - Giroux
Lindblom - Patrick/Hischier - Schenn
Konecny - Filppula - Simmonds

We have a crazy amount of depth at forward.

 

[BritainStix]

I don't think you can break up the Weise - Couts - Schenn line. At least for the first 10 games of the season to see if they simply caught lightning in a bottle. That line was so dominant it reminded me of Leino - Briere - Hartnell in the play-off run.

 

[Rebels57]

I don't think you can break up the Weise - Couts - Schenn line. At least for the first 10 games of the season to see if they simply caught lightning in a bottle. That line was so dominant it reminded me of Leino - Briere - Hartnell in the play-off run.

They were good but thats a bit of an exaggeration lol

 

[litflyersfan]

Why the heck would you move Giroux away from center. One of the best at face-offs in the league. Only way it makes sense to me is to put Giroux with Nico/Nolan, take the draw, then slot over to the wing after the draw. Can help the youngster get acclimated to the league without getting too overwhelmed.

Face-off stats: http://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't think you can break up the Weise - Couts - Schenn line. At least for the first 10 games of the season to see if they simply caught lightning in a bottle. That line was so dominant it reminded me of Leino - Briere - Hartnell in the play-off run.

I wouldn't count on that specific chemistry lasting thru a 6 month hiatus, and Weise is easily replaceable. Raffl, for example, could do everything just as well.

 

[Random Forest]

Would depend on when this happens..but for the sake of discussion if it happens in 16-17..

Voracek - Couturier - Giroux
Lindblom - Patrick/Hischier - Schenn
Konecny - Filppula - Simmonds

We have a crazy amount of depth at forward.

This is what I had in mind. Of course, we lose Giroux's two-way value and faceoff ability, but I think playing with Couturier could have a net positive effect on his overall impact and worth an experiment.

Another off-beat idea that I'd be curious about experimenting with: rolling four scoring lines.

Lindblom-Giroux-Konecny
Weise-Couturier-Schenn
Raffl-Patrick-Voracek
Cousins-Filppula-Simmonds

Yeah, it's crazy, but I'd love to see how it would work for even just a game or two.

 

[Rebels57]

Why the heck would you move Giroux away from center. One of the best at face-offs in the league. Only way it makes sense to me is to put Giroux with Nico/Nolan, take the draw, then slot over to the wing after the draw. Can help the youngster get acclimated to the league without getting too overwhelmed.

Face-off stats: http://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage

This is a discussion forum. From time to time we engage in "hypothetical" discussion just for the sake of it.

Also, its not a crazy idea to move him to wing when he is a few years older. Its not uncommon for older centers to make that transition when younger centers emerge.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

This is a discussion forum. From time to time we engage in "hypothetical" discussion just for the sake of it.

Also, its not a crazy idea to move him to wing when he is a few years older. Its not uncommon for older centers to make that transition when younger centers emerge.

I think in a few years he'll be perfect on wing, but in the mean time he needs to stay at center. Once 2OA is able to take over for him and Rubstov/Vorobyov/Someone else is a full time center in the organization Giroux will likely not be needed at center anymore. At that time, I'd feel comfortable with him as a RW, but not yet.

 

[FlyTimmo]

It would be interesting to see Couts and Giroux together on a line. However, it isn't like Couturier is a better center than Giroux, and it wouldn't really make sense to move Couts to the wing. So this is one of those hypotheticals that really doesn't have a chance of coming true in the next 3 years.

 

[Stizzle]

It would be interesting to see Couts and Giroux together on a line. However, it isn't like Couturier is a better center than Giroux, and it wouldn't really make sense to move Couts to the wing. So this is one of those hypotheticals that really doesn't have a chance of coming true in the next 3 years.

 

[Tripod]

It would be interesting to see Couts and Giroux together on a line. However, it isn't like Couturier is a better center than Giroux, and it wouldn't really make sense to move Couts to the wing. So this is one of those hypotheticals that really doesn't have a chance of coming true in the next 3 years.

Well....5vs5 the last 3 years:

Couturier 80 points
Giroux 79 points

And we know Couturier is better defensively. Giroux has the advantage on the PP, 4vs4, 3vs3.

But Giroux likely goes up against better defensive players and Dmen while Couts goes up against scorers that he needs to shut down.

 

[deadhead]

I wouldn't count on that specific chemistry lasting thru a 6 month hiatus, and Weise is easily replaceable. Raffl, for example, could do everything just as well.

Raffl used to be able to do everything just as well.
However, I'm getting the feeling he's headed down the same path as Read, recaptures his peak for one or two months a season, then a nonfactor due to dings the rest of the time.

Weiss is bigger and just as fast as Raffl, and doesn't look like he's wearing down.

But like the draft, I suspect this decision will be made by Las Vegas.

 

[Striiker]

All of this Couturier at 1C talk...

I think people are getting a bit overexcited after an unsustainable stretch of play to finish the year.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes I know he had the most 5v5 points on the team, but 17 of those came in the last 20 games.

In his previous 46 games, he had 14. Which is 0.304 5v5 points per game, a lower scoring rate than the worst 5v5 player to ever play in the NHL (Giroux, or at least I assume he's the worst, based on the complaints on here), who had 0.306 5v5 points per game in the same time period (which is also a larger sample size because he played 62 games). Obviously that's a tiny difference, but the point is that without that unsustainable play Couturier is no better than people who are CONSTANTLY *****ed about because of their 5v5 play. That time period also includes Giroux's horrendous stretch of play from Xmas until March 1st, where he had 3 5v5 points in 26 games, an outlier that seriously lowers his 5v5 ppg pace.

Plus, lets remember Giroux is getting matched against the opponents best defensive players. Couturier has hard usage, from a defensive standpoint, since he's playing against opponents top scorers, but most of those guys aren't exactly above average defensively. Easier to get scored on, but also easier to score against. If we're using Couturier as 1C with Giroux on his wing, he's going to get used against opponents best defensive players, so likely less scoring, and he's also not going to be going up against the opponents best offensive players so we'll probably get scored on more (obviously whoever replaces him as the person expected to shut down opponents won't be nearly as effective).

So, while in theory that line might sound nice, I seriously doubt it would work out well. It'd probably be better to let Giroux stay at 1C, hope he bounces back to how he was up until Xmas and the previous season. Then, if he doesn't, maybe the following year put Hischier or Patrick in that spot (if they look like they can handle it), with Giroux on their wing. Couturier stays in his current spot, both shutting down opponents top players and taking advantage of their lacking defense once in a while.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Plus, G is going to draw better defenders away from the other lines, making it easy for the young centers (who would be playing against inferior defensive forwards) - and if the other team pulls defensive forwards to cover the young ones, G can capitalize in easier match-ups. Meanwhile, Couts will be shutting down their scorers. I like them separated, at least for the near future. And if he is going to play wing, I think I'd rather see him play with a different center than Couts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is what I had in mind. Of course, we lose Giroux's two-way value and faceoff ability, but I think playing with Couturier could have a net positive effect on his overall impact and worth an experiment.

Another off-beat idea that I'd be curious about experimenting with: rolling four scoring lines.

Lindblom-Giroux-Konecny
Weise-Couturier-Schenn
Raffl-Patrick-Voracek
Cousins-Filppula-Simmonds

Yeah, it's crazy, but I'd love to see how it would work for even just a game or two.

Keeping G at center for faceoffs alone strikes me as a necessity.

 

[Random Forest]

Keeping G at center for faceoffs alone strikes me as a necessity.

It probably is, but no lineup is ever permanent. If just for certain matchups or to give Giroux a new look for a couple games at a time, I think it's a decent idea. These suggestions aren't so much to say "this is how we should orient our lines" as it is "these are some ideas to consider given the depth we might have next season".

I'm someone who thinks experimentation and creativity in making lineups can be good things when done in moderation. Getting too caught up in conventional wisdom can be stifling.

 

[Striiker]

Despite my previous post, I'm not 100% against that line. Just that I don't think that it should be the standard lineup. Being used in certain situations (at the end of games maybe) might be a good idea.

Plus, no reason why Giroux can't take faceoffs and then still play wing.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It probably is, but no lineup is ever permanent. If just for certain matchups or to give Giroux a new look for a couple games at a time, I think it's a decent idea. These suggestions aren't so much to say "this is how we should orient our lines" as it is "these are some ideas to consider given the depth we might have next season".

I'm someone who thinks experimentation and creativity in making lineups can be good things when done in moderation. Getting too caught up in conventional wisdom can be stifling.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

An alternative is letting G take the faceoff and then make his way to wing.

If Hakstol runs the centers like he did for much of last year, then having our best players on wing isn't exactly a bad idea. G setting up Couts at the net is intriguing.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Well....5vs5 the last 3 years:

Couturier 80 points
Giroux 79 points

And we know Couturier is better defensively. Giroux has the advantage on the PP, 4vs4, 3vs3.

But Giroux likely goes up against better defensive players and Dmen while Couts goes up against scorers that he needs to shut down.

41 centers with more than 80 es points over that span.