Will MLS eventually surpass the NHL in revenue?

[CorbeauNoir]

Buffalo is not going to get a MLS team an old dying city does not fit the mold. Rochester had a chance when the MLS was really hurting but that time is over. The markets the MLS really want are NY2, Detroit, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Orlando, South Florida, Arizona, St. Louis and eventually Austin and San Antonio. The days of giving a franchise to anyone with a check are over. MLS will probably take an expansion break after number 20.

FOUR teams in Texas?! There's barely enough interest in the two that already exist. I'd imagine Austin would take well to MLS but imo it'd make more sense to move FC Dallas there or something.

 

[DelpoRafaKilla]

Yeah brah there will four teams in Texas, its the Ontario of soccer.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Yeah brah there will four teams in Texas, its the Ontario of soccer.

Really? I don't want to fall into the trap of parading attendance numbers but FC Dallas' turnout has been really poor.

 

[DelpoRafaKilla]

We had ownership trouble and the stadium is a little out of the way, but still in the middle of the soccer loving public. Columbus and Dallas re both owned by the Hunts and they are a little behind in terms of marketing to the young demographic. Last year we didn't even have a sales staff until a few months in. The stadium is poorly designed, because it doesn't provide shade or cool during the summer, so one side of the stadium is packed while the other sparse. With a little more work and a year or two the market will be fine and thriving. And I don't expect SA and Austin to get a team anytime soon, but Garber has professed regional rivalries and both cities have the demographics MLS wants. The SA Spurs owners were kicking around the idea of an expansion proposal, but it has been silent for a wahile. If they could build a stadium, MLS would come.

 

[nyrmetros]

Thoughts on the MLS playoffs format??

 

[frivolousz21]

MLS will grab a foothold in the US sports arena, but it's going to take time.

Currently we're looking at maybe the 1st or 2nd generations of MLS fans, and the first ones where it's really caught on. When all these supporters and the "ultras" as they call themselves have kids and put them onto the sport, that's when you'll see a bigger boom.

Miami (Florida's an easy pick), Minnesota, a second team in New York, Atlanta and Detroit are all trying to get their foot in the door for franchises as well. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Baltimore and St. Louis all have significant arguments for an MLS team too. The demand's there and it's probably going to get bigger.

San Jose needs to build a bigger stadium (10k isn't going to cut it- there are teams in the NASL, the 2nd division league, that have bigger stadiums) though.

As for TV ratings, that's kinda squishy to base it off of that- more and more people are crowding into pubs to watch on singular TVs, or simply watching online (which MLS encourages), which doesn't count on Nielsen. Last May, Portland/Seattle had a rating of 3.0, the same amount of viewers as the NBA playoffs and a higher viewing share than WWE Smackdown, a friday night staple for god knows how long.

The MLS final hasn't been over a .7 in like a decade. I have no idea where you pulled that 3.0 out but it's even close. That game may have pulled a 0.3 but no MLS game has ever gotten a 3.0 ever, not Freddy Adu, not the first one...no MLS cup, a 1.3 or so is the highest.

MLS is averaging 240K viewers on ESPN2 and like 80K on FSC.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

The MLS final hasn't been over a .7 in like a decade. I have no idea where you pulled that 3.0 out but it's even close. That game may have pulled a 0.3 but no MLS game has ever gotten a 3.0 ever, not Freddy Adu, not the first one...no MLS cup, a 1.3 or so is the highest.

MLS is averaging 240K viewers on ESPN2 and like 80K on FSC.

He clearly said Portland/Seattle, not nationally.

 

[frivolousz21]

MLS will grab a foothold in the US sports arena, but it's going to take time.

Currently we're looking at maybe the 1st or 2nd generations of MLS fans, and the first ones where it's really caught on. When all these supporters and the "ultras" as they call themselves have kids and put them onto the sport, that's when you'll see a bigger boom.

Miami (Florida's an easy pick), Minnesota, a second team in New York, Atlanta and Detroit are all trying to get their foot in the door for franchises as well. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Baltimore and St. Louis all have significant arguments for an MLS team too. The demand's there and it's probably going to get bigger.

San Jose needs to build a bigger stadium (10k isn't going to cut it- there are teams in the NASL, the 2nd division league, that have bigger stadiums) though.

As for TV ratings, that's kinda squishy to base it off of that- more and more people are crowding into pubs to watch on singular TVs, or simply watching online (which MLS encourages), which doesn't count on Nielsen. Last May, Portland/Seattle had a rating of 3.0, the same amount of viewers as the NBA playoffs and a higher viewing share than WWE Smackdown, a friday night staple for god knows how long.

The MLS final hasn't been over a .7 in like a decade. I have no idea where you pulled that 3.0 out but it's even close. That game may have pulled a 0.3 but no MLS game has ever gotten a 3.0 ever, not Freddy Adu, not the first one...no MLS cup, a 1.3 or so is the highest.

MLS is averaging 240K viewers on ESPN2 and like 80K on FSC.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Never will

 

[krudmonk]

Actually, try half of that. According to Wikipedia, they drew 4 million at the gate in 2010, which averages out to 16,000 per game

no it didn't.

16 teams x 15 home games = 240 games would be about 33,000K per game.

I am not sure where you pulled those numbers from but it's not real.

I forgot to divide by 2 because I'm an overzealous Pejorative Slur.

that is with a couple teams pulling large numbers and teams still using huge National team game numbers like 60K+ inflating numbers.

and on top of that, that says nothing about popularity. TV says it all about popularity.

MLS last season



a single game final drawing 750K viewers after a 30 game season and a short playoff says MLS is completely niche..I mean if the NHL is niche, MLS is like what? Why is this even being debated? MLS is almost being outdrawn now by EPL on FSC then MLS on ESPN2

again both leagues have similiar size schedules which MLS fans seem to conviently forget when trumpeting average attendance and tv ratings. Which inflates both dramatically vs NHL.

these are realities, doesn't mean the couple hundred thousands followers MLS has isn't impressive for an upstart league.

"Niche" sports rent venues and play shortened seasons. Teams come and go every year. They certainly don't have reserve teams or development academies.

As for European ratings, much of that comes from people are who follow an MLS side as well. It's not uncommon for fans to have favorites across several leagues. We see that on this forum with European fans. There are the die-hard Eurosnobs who fork out for Fox Soccer Channel so that's where that channel is geared, hence MLS going to the more widely-available NBC/Versus.

Furthermore, Mexican club soccer outrates it all in the US, so it's clear that overall perceived quality is not directly proportional to fan interest here. The issue of payroll and marquee players is not as big a hurdle as stated by some. Crossover appeal is heightened with continued exposure to Mexican-American fans through the CONCACAF Champions League.

I know this thread started by comparing it to the NHL (foolish right now), but has become about defending the legitimacy of MLS altogether. It's firmly 5th in English-speaking (next year in Quebec) North America and would be the 6th best-drawing league in Europe. Any argument against it is weakened year after year.

 

[Rocket]

I forgot to divide by 2

Some of us have been there so you are forgiven but I think you can't be forgiven for using last year's numbers when we have a perfectly good current season that just finished. This year averaged nearly 18,000 (vs. 16k+ last year) and with 2 more home games per team to boot. I imagine some teams that were either losing small amount of money or breaking even are profitable this year. That's good enough for me.. the fact that there's finally a profitable (overall) soccer league in North America which never happened before.

 

[Jonimaus]

Thoughts on the MLS playoffs format??

League football should not have playoffs at all.

 

[rojac]

League football should not have playoffs at all.

This is North America. Leagues have playoffs.

 

[Jonimaus]

This is North America. Leagues have playoffs.

My point still stands, league football should not have playoffs.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The playoff format is terrible. They shouldn't even bother having conferences if they basically are irrelevant come the postseason. Just play with 1 table and be done with it.

 

[Brodie]

I think some view Buffalo as an answer to the age old question of how to get MLS into Rochester, where minor league soccer was king in the late 90's. Those days are over, though.

One thing nobody ever seems to want to consider here is the possibility of MLS developing it's own stars as opposed to importing the best players in the world. One current trend in MLS, for example, is using DP slots to buy mega talented kids from poorer South American nations like Colombia. If the league could create scouting pipelines in South American countries aside from Argentina and Brazil as well as Africa, it could very well become a league with a lot of young talent that hasn't yet had the chance to head to Europe.

 

[MayDay]

My point still stands, league football should not have playoffs.

Why not? Give me a good reason.

Playoffs are the best part of any sport's season.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

Short Answer:

No, the MLS will NEVER surpass the NHL.

Reason: The product is TERRIBLE. End of story.

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

League football should not have playoffs at all.

I agree, they should play five competitions at once, instead. That's much smarter.

The playoff format is a little jumbled at the moment, but part of that is due to the fluidity of the league. As things settle down on the expansion front, the playoff format will likely settle in at an NFL-style format with 12 teams, but they really can't implement that yet with only 18 teams or even with just 20 teams.

 

[Confucius]

Why not? Give me a good reason.

Playoffs are the best part of any sport's season.

If it is run similar to the EPL there is no need for playoffs as we know them. They have a Champions league where the top 4 teams from each league faceoff against each other in a round robin type of deal. So that is really the playoffs in Europe.

 

[Jonimaus]

I agree, they should play five competitions at once, instead. That's much smarter.

Explain how having playoffs is making a difference in that scenario.

 

[krudmonk]

Some of us have been there so you are forgiven but I think you can't be forgiven for using last year's numbers when we have a perfectly good current season that just finished. This year averaged nearly 18,000 (vs. 16k+ last year) and with 2 more home games per team to boot. I imagine some teams that were either losing small amount of money or breaking even are profitable this year. That's good enough for me.. the fact that there's finally a profitable (overall) soccer league in North America which never happened before.

Well I think my original post was before season's end so that's why I went to last year's averages. But as you said, it's already better this year. Next season will have Montreal, who already draw decently. Portland is raising capacity by 2K. The season after that, SJ will move from a 10.5K stadium to an 18K stadium. It's all set up to move MLS into a more respectable position worldwide.

 

[MayDay]

If it is run similar to the EPL there is no need for playoffs as we know them.

Yeah, but that only tells you who's the best at regular season play.

That would be like saying the President's Trophy winner is the champion of the NHL.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Yeah, but that only tells you who's the best at regular season play.

That would be like saying the President's Trophy winner is the champion of the NHL.

No. It's not.

Hockey doesn't play a balanced schedule. If you had every team play each other twice, once at home and once away, then it would be like it.

The fact is, having playoffs in soccer doesn't work well because of the sports low scoring nature, lower than hockey's, that would force titles be decided on penalty kicks. It's a travesty that it happens in the World Cup, CL, and Euro, and even worse that it can decide the season champion for MLS.

 

[Confucius]

Yeah, but that only tells you who's the best at regular season play.

That would be like saying the President's Trophy winner is the champion of the NHL.

No the Champions league is a tournament (Playoffs) of the best teams out of all the leagues in Europe. As I said each league sends 4 teams. That's their playoffs. I think it's 8 different leagues sending 4 teams each. So it takes all season to play their playoffs. The teams are actually playing the playoffs at the same time as they are playing their regular season.

They have the race to win their league (Presidents trophy). They have a race to make the top 4 of their league (To qualify for the Champions league). They have the tournament (Playoffs) against other leagues. They have the race to avoid relegation. Many more teams involved in meaningful games.