Will McDavid Have Surpassed The Following Hall Of Fame Players' Careers If He Sweeps The Awards?

[Craig Button]

lol at anyone picking Bure.

Bure's first 3 Seasons is better than McDavid's career today

 

[thadd]

I don't even know who that is. You're the one who brought up the ridiculous notion that you have to rank players based on cups. Gretzky only has 4 cups, Beliveau 10. You think Beliveau is better?

From the players listed. Datsyuk has 2 cups. I'd still easily take Lindros, Bure and McDavid ahead of him all-time.

No, I didn't.
Am I talking to a bot here or something?
I'm missing the punchline.
Cups aren't everything, but when people talk about whose who, cups are always in the conversation.
For years people constantly compared Crosby and Ovechkin and the minute that Ovechkin won his cup the TV really muted it self on that narrative since both of them had one a cup.
When people talk about GOATS, they're always counting cups and OBVIOUSLY I NEED TO POINT IT OUT TO YOU THAT JUST THAT THEY'RE COUNTING CUPS DOESN'T MEAN THAT CUPS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.
And Beliveau is probably one of the most underrated hockey players of all time after Claude Lemieux.
And yes, I'd easily take Datsyuk over Lindros, Bure or McDavid. (Assuming McDavid's career was over today.
Datsyuk had great offense, was god-tier in the shootout when teams were still figuring it out and he was a top 3 shutdown center in the league throughout the majority of his career.
I'm an Oil fan and I'm very comfortable saying that McDavid and Drai would be coughing up the puck left right and center while on the ice with Datsyuk.
Bure never won a cup and was too 1 dimensional to be in the conversation.
Head injuries caused Lindros to regress far too early in his career and he spent too much time off from concussions during his prime years.
Datsyuk by a country mile. He easily accomplished more than Bure and Lindros combined.
Do you think Lindros or Bure would have waited so long to get into the HHOF if they'd won a cup?
No, that was a rhetorical question.

Teams win cups. Not players.

Teams consist of 20-30 players.

So what are you insinuating? That there's no point in having a HHOF caliber player on your team? Your team is just bound to win a cup if they play well as a team, right?

Did Correy Perry and Ryan Getslaf get huge raises because they were great team players or because they won a cup?
How about Kane and Toews?

Please.
Please
Think about the implications of what you're saying here before you reply.

Cups matter.

Teams sign depth players to be bench warmers from former champion teams just because they want someone in the locker room that went through that. That knows what the grind is like.

Cups matter.

If Cups didn't matter then people wouldn't bother mentioning how many cups said individual won with their respective teams when they're nominated to enter the HHOF.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

lol at anyone picking Bure.

Bure's first 3 Seasons is better than McDavid's career today

Bure career: 3x rocket, 5x top 10 goals, 4x top 10 pts, 2x top 10 hart, 1x 1st AST

McDavid career: 2x ross, 2x Lindsay, 1x hart, 4x top 10 goals, 5x top 10 pts, 4x top 10 hart (5x after this season), 3x 1st AST (4x after this season)

Not sure what you're looking at to pick Bure other than "if you watched him play you'd understand".

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

All. Way better combination of goal, pt, hart and AST finishes vs any of them. I don't really care that Datsyuk and Forsberg won cups on stacked teams. Datsyuk was a 3rd liner in 02 and Forsberg didn't even play one game in the 01 WCF or SCF.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Agreed. Chris "4 cups" Kunitz > Crosby.

Cups go far when comparing players of similar magnitude. Rest assured mcdavid if he goes cupless will not be looked upon with the great great players of all time. Similar to Dionne

 

[nowhereman]

lol at anyone picking Bure.

Bure's first 3 Seasons is better than McDavid's career today

I'm a Canucks fan who watched nearly every game Bure played for our franchise. You're out to lunch on this one.

 

[Video Nasty]

Those 6 players have a combined 2 Harts, 1 Pearson, and 1 Ross.

McDavid will have 2 Harts, 3 Pearson/Lindsays, and 3 Rosses through 6 seasons (as well as 5 top 2 scoring finishes and 5 top 5 Hart voting).

He has very clearly passed all of them.

He’s already joined a very select group of players with the trophies he’ll have through this season. The next 5 or so seasons of McDavid’s career is going to see him surpass basically everyone besides the Big Four.

 

[nowhereman]

Those 6 players have a combined 2 Harts, 1 Pearson, and 1 Ross.

McDavid will have 2 Harts, 3 Pearson/Lindsays, and 3 Rosses through 6 seasons (as well as 5 top 2 scoring finishes and 5 top 5 Hart voting).

He has very clearly passed all of them.

He’s already joined a very select group of players with the trophies he’ll have through this season. The next 5 or so seasons of McDavid’s career is going to see him surpass basically everyone besides the Big Four.

Let's pump the brakes a bit there. It's one thing to better Neely or Kariya's career, it's another to usurp Beliveau, Hull, Crosby, OV, Richard and Jagr.

 

[Video Nasty]

Let's pump the brakes a bit there. It's one thing to better Neely or Kariya's career, it's another to usurp Beliveau, Hull, Crosby, OV, Richard and Jagr.

Talking about potential trophy count.

But with that does come that possibility too.

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

all of them

 

[MikeyMike01]

Biased poll to not have a “none” option.

 

[North Cole]

If he retired today not having swept the awards this year, I say he gets in but waits a bit.

If he sweeps the awards and retires in the summer it becomes harder (impossible imo) to ignore him as a first ballot.

I get that longevity adds to a players mythos, but I have trouble seeing what else he has to prove other than becoming a "compilier". Should players get into the HoF because they are clearly HoF players and above their competitors, or because they compile a bunch of milestones? Simply saying he has to get arbitrary requirements like 1000p or some number of gp is one of the reasons we get eye brow raising enshrinements.

 

[AndreRoy]

I was starting to wonder when the next How Awesome is Connor McDavid? thread would drop.

Thanks.

It’s beyond annoying, but it is all they have.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Talking about potential trophy count.

But with that does come that possibility too.

Better throw in some smythes and cups in the mix or its a moot point

 

[shaner82]

Kinda hard to take him over people who've won cups.

That's why I didn't select Forsberg or Datsyuk. I know it's a team sport, but championships count for something. Right or wrong, it's reality

 

[Brucelenok]

for me he will pass everyone but Datsyuk. Yeah yeah yeah, people will start to talk about trophies etc. But prime Datsyuk was a better player for me than current McDavid. High 90s point player who won Selke says it all. Plus let's not forget the guy's prime was versus Peak Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin. I doubt McDavid would have all these trophies if he played then. Right now he is unquestionably the best player in the world but the talent pool is shallower than 10 years ago IMO

 

[ScaredStreit]

Career wise he passes Lindros, but not peak Lindros. Peak Lindros is better than anyone I've seen other than Lemieux and Gretzky.

 

[edog37]

Career wise he passes Lindros, but not peak Lindros. Peak Lindros is better than anyone I've seen other than Lemieux and Gretzky.

then you must haven't watched very much because peak Lindros wasn't very much to look at. Especially considering how badly Nick Lindros & Larry Murphy schooled him in the '97 Final. I can easily think of 100+ guys who were far better than Lindros at any point in his career.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

This is my list of the players he will have passed: Gilbert Perreault, Scott Niedermayer, Adam Oates, and Guy Lapointe.

 

[sharkhawk]

For services is so overrated on these boards

 

[Voight]

Better throw in some smythes and cups in the mix or its a moot point

You mean those team achievements?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You mean those team achievements?

Great players win rings PERIOD

 

[BlueBaron]

Has there ever been another player who's supporters were more fixated on the end of his career than his current career?

I'd enjoy him while you have him and worry about the HOF when he retires.

 

[Voight]

Great players win rings PERIOD

Not by themselves.

Lemeiux didn't win anything nor go far in the playoffs until he had Coffey, Francis, Jagr, Murphy etc. Likewise Yzerman until he had more talent around him. Takes more than a single great player to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[bobholly39]

Not by themselves.

Lemeiux didn't win anything nor go far in the playoffs until he had Coffey, Francis, Jagr, Murphy etc. Likewise Yzerman until he had more talent around him. Takes more than a single great player to win the Stanley Cup.

I agree they don't win by themselves, but it's not that clear cut with Lemieux. Lemieux didn't win anything till he channeled superman mode. He only reached that level in 1988-1989 really. And then won in 91, and 92 again. And that whole stretch of peak Lemieux (so ~1988-1993) he battled massive injuries. The idea isn't that you win all the time, but a player the caliber of peak Lemieux is good enough to win. 2x in 4 years is good.

Coffey is fantastic and probably played a big role in bringing Pens to the next level, but he wasn't all that instrumental to the cups in Pitt. He was injured half the time in 91 playoffs, and wasn't on the team in 92.
Jagr played a good role, but he was a rookie, and it's very far from peak or even prime Jagr.

People also say "Gretzky never won after Edmonton" - and while true, he also was older/declined. And so by that point in his career, no he wasn't good enough to win by himself.

Peak Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux? Good enough to win by themselves (not literally). Put those peak versions of players in a ~5 year stretch on an average team, and they almost surely win a cup or 2.

But - those 3 are the exception. If we're talking about an Yzerman/McDavid/Crosby/Ovechkin - sure, you need a team to win too.