Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[Melrose Munch]

Its funny people ripped Mayor Weiers for breaking the deal saying he was going to wind up with an empty arena. Well the original deal was supposed to run until 2028. We're already into 2021 and he has gotten 6 years of the team going year-to-year. I'd say its a safe bet that no new arena is opening up in Arizona for at least 4-5 years.

I do agree with this. I would have thought something would have happened by now.

It's not a secret at all that Meruelo and the Coyotes want an arena in the East Valley (so in one of Tempe/Scottsdale/Mesa/Chandler), and they could absolutely build one on the lot just north of the Rising's complex beside Firebird Lake at Wild Horse Pass.

That'd be just about 10 minutes from the Ice Den in Chandler and right by a couple of Gila River hotels and casinos.

East Valley would be another lateral move.

Make it work with the suns and replace talking stick already.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Still think they will.

 

[StreetHawk]

I do agree with this. I would have thought something would have happened by now.


East Valley would be another lateral move.

Make it work with the suns and replace talking stick already.

There was a signed agreement to Reno the TSRA without the structural changes necessary for the coyotes to return.

Sarver the Suns owner had zero interest in letting the coyotes back into the building.

 

[CanadianCoyote]

Make it work with the suns and replace talking stick already.

The only way you'd make it work with Sarver is if the Coyotes basically gave up everything in terms of revenue from the building to the Suns.

He purposefully left them out of the reno talks for TSRA to begin with, what makes it any more likely he'd let them in to a new building without utterly gouging them? It'd be ASG and the Thrashers all over again.

I'd look into an arena on the reserve beside the Rising complex before trying to get Sarver to let the Yotes into the Suns' barn. Could also look at that big empty lot beside Gateway North if you don't want an arena on the reserve.

 

[StreetHawk]

The only way you'd make it work with Sarver is if the Coyotes basically gave up everything in terms of revenue from the building to the Suns.

He purposefully left them out of the reno talks for TSRA to begin with, what makes it any more likely he'd let them in to a new building without utterly gouging them? It'd be ASG and the Thrashers all over again.

I'd look into an arena on the reserve beside the Rising complex before trying to get Sarver to let the Yotes into the Suns' barn.

The reno is keeping the same seating structure and obstructed seats. The city offered to tear down the arena and build new if the coyotes were involved as it was more cost effective to do that.

but Sarver didn’t want any part of that. That is what happens when you don’t have a seat at the table.

 

[TheLegend]

RE: Replacing the Suns arena....

It was already proposed once by the former mayor of Phoenix (Greg Stanton) who is now a rep in the US Congress. Ideally it would have put Sarver in the position of excepting a shared arena or nothing. But it also would have required a public vote (zero chance that would have passed in the climate at the time).

The Suns were able to get their reno funding from the city without a public vote because there were funds already earmarked for those type of projects.

 

[StreetHawk]

RE: Replacing the Suns arena....

It was already proposed once by the former mayor of Phoenix (Greg Stanton) who is now a rep in the US Congress. Ideally it would have put Sarver in the position of excepting a shared arena or nothing. But it also would have required a public vote (zero chance that would have passed in the climate at the time).

The Suns were able to get their reno funding from the city without a public vote because there were funds already earmarked for those type of projects.

The Suns lease is due up in 2022 if the current arena didn't meet a certain standard, which apparently, being 30 years old wasn't going to happen.

So, if the city didn't bow to the Suns demand they faced the real possibility of the Suns relocating and with the Seattle having renovated their arena, that put the city in a bad spot. So, in choosing between potentially the Suns or the Coyotes, the city went with the more popular sport for the city/state. Cost to renovate the arena from the city was $160 mill. To go brand new with 2 teams, likely $350 million, but only if they got 2 teams, as they wouldn't go new for just the Coyotes.

 

[TheLegend]

The Suns lease is due up in 2022 if the current arena didn't meet a certain standard, which apparently, being 30 years old wasn't going to happen.

So, if the city didn't bow to the Suns demand they faced the real possibility of the Suns relocating and with the Seattle having renovated their arena, that put the city in a bad spot. So, in choosing between potentially the Suns or the Coyotes, the city went with the more popular sport for the city/state. Cost to renovate the arena from the city was $160 mill. To go brand new with 2 teams, likely $350 million.

You ignored what I said about voter approval in regards to both scenarios.

My point was also had the city did go with a new arena the Suns would have to go along, or possibly move which would NOT have looked good for Sarver on more than one level, such as justifying it to the NBA.

BTW the Coyotes were outdrawing the Suns on some dates during that period. The franchise was in much worse shape than the Coyotes were from a front office drama standpoint. Ottawa had their MelnykOut campaign, Phoenix had their SarverOut.

 

[BMN]

This thread is just like the NHL Commissioner and BoG in 2011: Even when the topic is supposed to be Atlanta, all the focus is on Phoenix.

 

[aqib]

I do agree with this. I would have thought something would have happened by now.


East Valley would be another lateral move.

Make it work with the suns and replace talking stick already.

There was no reason to believe any municipality in the Valley would pay for a new arena for the Coyotes. Even in places with lower costs (i.e. not New York or LA) your are talking $400-$500 million.

As far as East Valley being a lateral move I will defer to the people on this board that actually live in Arizona who tell me there is more money and more hockey fans on that side of town.

Considering that the city and team just spent over $200 million fixing up the arena they aren't going to replace it anytime soon.

 

[Melrose Munch]

On another note, has the hawks owner been contacted at all? I heard the downtown area was out for hockey now.

 

[GreenHornet]

On another note, has the hawks owner been contacted at all? I heard the downtown area was out for hockey now.

If by out you're asking if the Hawks owner (Tony Ressler) is interested in bringing hockey to SFA, then the answer appears to be no. There's been no indication (either directly or indirectly) that he's interested, at least at this time.

If you're asking whether or not SFA could still host hockey if Ressler and his group so desired, that's a little less clear. It's been fairly well documented that there is still an ice-making plant and equipment at SFA. What I don't know is if there's enough floor space for a rink. When SFA was renovated a few years back, they gutted and rebuilt the entire lower bowl. I'm not sure if they installed retractable seats in the end zones to allow a 200 x 85 rink to fit.

 

[Melrose Munch]

If by out you're asking if the Hawks owner (Tony Ressler) is interested in bringing hockey to SFA, then the answer appears to be no. There's been no indication (either directly or indirectly) that he's interested, at least at this time.

If you're asking whether or not SFA could still host hockey if Ressler and his group so desired, that's a little less clear. It's been fairly well documented that there is still an ice-making plant and equipment at SFA. What I don't know is if there's enough floor space for a rink. When SFA was renovated a few years back, they gutted and rebuilt the entire lower bowl. I'm not sure if they installed retractable seats in the end zones to allow a 200 x 85 rink to fit.

There should be an effort to court him I think.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

If by out you're asking if the Hawks owner (Tony Ressler) is interested in bringing hockey to SFA, then the answer appears to be no. There's been no indication (either directly or indirectly) that he's interested, at least at this time.

If you're asking whether or not SFA could still host hockey if Ressler and his group so desired, that's a little less clear. It's been fairly well documented that there is still an ice-making plant and equipment at SFA. What I don't know is if there's enough floor space for a rink. When SFA was renovated a few years back, they gutted and rebuilt the entire lower bowl. I'm not sure if they installed retractable seats in the end zones to allow a 200 x 85 rink to fit.

It might from this picture, but I’m not sure:



But Mike Conti a few years back said SFA did have room for an NHL ice sheet:

 

[aqib]

There should be an effort to court him I think.

Ressler started his career in junk bonds and later started a private equity firm and is also part owner of the Milwaukee Brewers. He's made over $2 billion in his life. So given all that he is probably more well versed in assessing business opportunities in general and the business of sports in particular than any of us on this board are. So if Atlanta had any real potential as a hockey market don't you think he would have figured it out by now? Lets say you got a meeting with him and could make a "Shark Tank" like pitch to get him to agree to put an NHL team in his arena, what would you say to him that wouldn't result in him just laughing you out of the room?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Ressler started his career in junk bonds and later started a private equity firm and is also part owner of the Milwaukee Brewers. He's made over $2 billion in his life. So given all that he is probably more well versed in assessing business opportunities in general and the business of sports in particular than any of us on this board are. So if Atlanta had any real potential as a hockey market don't you think he would have figured it out by now? Lets say you got a meeting with him and could make a "Shark Tank" like pitch to get him to agree to put an NHL team in his arena, what would you say to him that wouldn't result in him just laughing you out of the room?

I'm not the NHL, but I would cite the history of the spirit group and the history of bad ownership, and how it damages the market. But we do have guys here on the ground, @GreenHornet and @nhlfan79 who think Atlanta deserves another chance. I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

So if Atlanta had any real potential as a hockey market don't you think he would have figured it out by now?

This is a terrible argument.

There are so many reasons why NBA owners might not necessarily make a bid for NHL team.

 

[aqib]

This is a terrible argument.

There are so many reasons why NBA owners might not necessarily make a bid for NHL team.

I know there are many reasons why they might not make a bid, I just find it funny that Melrose thinks the Hawks owner needs to be pitched on how great of an opportunity putting a team in Atlanta would be when he's made BILLIONS of dollars identifying undervalued business opportunities AND has invested in TWO major league sports teams in two different leagues. I think he would have already figured out if bringing the NHL back to Atlanta makes any sense at all.

 

[aqib]

I'm not the NHL, but I would cite the history of the spirit group and the history of bad ownership, and how it damages the market. But we do have guys here on the ground, @GreenHornet and @nhlfan79 who think Atlanta deserves another chance. I'm inclined to believe them.

Considering he bought the team from ASG he would have already know about their history. There is a thing called due diligence that happens when $850 million transactions get done. As far as differing to people on the ground goes this is literally the first time I have seen you do that.

The NHL returning to Atlanta is up there with the MLSE/Bell/Rogers divorce in the list of things that only people on this board say. If you only read this board you would think there were many suitors for the Thrashers who wanted to keep them in Atlanta
However, if we want to "defer to people on the ground" here is an article from the Thrashers last beat reporter: Two misses and you’re out for NHL in Atlanta he says "And the relocation rumors started again. Co-owner Michael Gearon told the AJC in February that there was a “sense of urgency” to change the financial setup. I tracked down anyone rumored to have interest. There was never any serious negotiations. I even talked to Tom Glavine, who had a willingness for a small minority share in the Thrashers if it would help keep the franchise in Atlanta."

Lastly, 2 people on one forum doesn't constitute a groundswell of support. Heck even the @NHLtoAtlanta twitter account that was referenced a couple of posts ago has a grand total of 192 followers (by comparison NHL in CLE an account trying to get an NHL team in Cleveland which has zero chance of a team has over 2600 followers). I feel bad for the few fans in Atlanta who lost there team but thinking the league is going back there is a pipe dream.

 

[Melrose Munch]

.

I know there are many reasons why they might not make a bid, I just find it funny that Melrose thinks the Hawks owner needs to be pitched on how great of an opportunity putting a team in Atlanta would be when he's made BILLIONS of dollars identifying undervalued business opportunities AND has invested in TWO major league sports teams in two different leagues. I think he would have already figured out if bringing the NHL back to Atlanta makes any sense at all.

So you were speculating then . We don't have any idea if he's interested or not, that's why I suggested a pitch. I haven't heard anything about the NHL doing that either.

Considering he bought the team from ASG he would have already know about theirhistory. There is a thing called due diligence that happens when $850 million transactions get done. As far as differing to people on the ground goes this is literally the first time I have seen you do that.

The NHL returning to Atlanta is up there with the MLSE/Bell/Rogers divorce in the list of things that only people on this board say. If you only read this board you would think there were many suitors for the Thrashers who wanted to keep them in Atlanta
However, if we want to "defer to people on the ground" here is an article from the Thrashers last beat reporter: Two misses and you’re out for NHL in Atlanta he says "And the relocation rumors started again. Co-owner Michael Gearon told the AJC in February that there was a “sense of urgency” to change the financial setup. I tracked down anyone rumored to have interest. There was never any serious negotiations. I even talked to Tom Glavine, who had a willingness for a small minority share in the Thrashers if it would help keep the franchise in Atlanta."

Lastly, 2 people on one forum doesn't constitute a groundswell of support. Heck even the @NHLtoAtlanta twitter account that was referenced a couple of posts ago has a grand total of 192 followers (by comparison NHL in CLE an account trying to get an NHL team in Cleveland which has zero chance of a team has over 2600 followers). I feel bad for the few fans in Atlanta who lost there team but thinking the league is going back there is a pipe dream.

You seem the be changing your stance here. You say in one post we have to listen to people in Arizona, but not people in Atlanta. Just because one market doesn't have a team? Doesn't make sense. I think you know why the NHL is not in Cleveland.

Given that there has been relative silence from both the business community and NHL, maybe it is unlikely. But we don't know as there is nothing really to if either Ressler or the NHL are interested one way or the other.

 

[aqib]

. So you were speculating then . We don't have any idea if he's interested or not, that's why I suggested a pitch. I haven't heard anything about the NHL doing that either.

You seem the be changing your stance here. You say in one post we have to listen to people in Arizona, but not people in Atlanta. Just because one market doesn't have a team? Doesn't make sense. I think you know why the NHL is not in Cleveland.

Given that there has been relative silence from both the business community and NHL, maybe it is unlikely. But we don't know as there is nothing really to if either Ressler or the NHL are interested one way or the other.

Ok let me break this down so you understand. If Atlanta was a actually a viable market for an NHL team, it wouldn't be something that is only talked about on this board and one twitter account with less than 200 followers (heck I have over 300 followers). Google "future NHL Expansion", "NHL relocation rumors", "Future NHL markets" or whatever search terms relate to cities the NHL may go to in the future and no CREDIBLE outlet saying that Atlanta is/should be on the radar. Regarding Ressler, again if he saw a business opportunity (something he is really good at hence why is worth billions) he wouldn't a pitch from the NHL. If either Ressler was interested we would be seeing something somewhere. We had been hearing about Winnepeg for years, Hamilton, KC, Portland when Paul Allen was alive, etc. but there is zero zilch coming out of Atlanta other than on this board. I know why Cleveland doesn't have a team (the market won't support it) the reason I mentioned it, is that despite the fact that Cleveland doesn't have a chance at a team even Cleveland gets more buzz than Atlanta does.

As far as trusting people from Atlanta, I am quoting a journalist who covered the Thrashers for a living you're quoting two people from a message board who happen to have the same opinion as you do (in their case I get it since they are hockey fans from Atlanta who want a team you just have a strange fascination with all things American)

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Ok let me break this down so you understand. If Atlanta was a actually a viable market for an NHL team, it wouldn't be something that is only talked about on this board and one twitter account with less than 200 followers (heck I have over 300 followers).

And if QC was a viable NHL market NHL would have given them a team already. Lets not play this game.

Google "future NHL Expansion", "NHL relocation rumors", "Future NHL markets" or whatever search terms relate to cities the NHL may go to in the future and no CREDIBLE outlet saying that Atlanta is/should be on the radar. Regarding Ressler, again if he saw a business opportunity (something he is really good at hence why is worth billions) he wouldn't a pitch from the NHL. If either Ressler was interested we would be seeing something somewhere. We had been hearing about Winnepeg for years, Hamilton, KC, Portland when Paul Allen was alive, etc. but there is zero zilch coming out of Atlanta other than on this board. I know why Cleveland doesn't have a team (the market won't support it) the reason I mentioned it, is that despite the fact that Cleveland doesn't have a chance at a team even Cleveland gets more buzz than Atlanta does.

As far as trusting people from Atlanta, I am quoting a journalist who covered the Thrashers for a living you're quoting two people from a message board who happen to have the same opinion as you do (in their case I get it since they are hockey fans from Atlanta who want a team you just have a strange fascination with all things American)

Maybe he doesn't like hockey as a sport. Maybe he does not have the cash (net worth=/=cash in the bank). You don't know why he doesn't want an NHL team, heck you don't know if he doesn't want an NHL team.

Why are you so against people MERELY talking about Atlanta as a market? Like, how does this affect your life?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Ok let me break this down so you understand. If Atlanta was a actually a viable market for an NHL team, it wouldn't be something that is only talked about on this board and one twitter account with less than 200 followers (heck I have over 300 followers). Google "future NHL Expansion", "NHL relocation rumors", "Future NHL markets" or whatever search terms relate to cities the NHL may go to in the future and no CREDIBLE outlet saying that Atlanta is/should be on the radar. Regarding Ressler, again if he saw a business opportunity (something he is really good at hence why is worth billions) he wouldn't a pitch from the NHL. If either Ressler was interested we would be seeing something somewhere. We had been hearing about Winnepeg for years, Hamilton, KC, Portland when Paul Allen was alive, etc. but there is zero zilch coming out of Atlanta other than on this board. I know why Cleveland doesn't have a team (the market won't support it) the reason I mentioned it, is that despite the fact that Cleveland doesn't have a chance at a team even Cleveland gets more buzz than Atlanta does.

As far as trusting people from Atlanta, I am quoting a journalist who covered the Thrashers for a living you're quoting two people from a message board who happen to have the same opinion as you do (in their case I get it since they are hockey fans from Atlanta who want a team you just have a strange fascination with all things American)

Ok but even with this wall of text, why can't we talk about it? I don't have a fascination with all things American, I'm just curious why you're so against this?

And if QC was a viable NHL market NHL would have given them a team already. Lets not play this game.


Maybe he doesn't like hockey as a sport. Maybe he does not have the cash (net worth=/=cash in the bank). You don't know why he doesn't want an NHL team, heck you don't know if he doesn't want an NHL team.

Why are you so against people MERELY talking about Atlanta as a market? Like, how does this affect your life?

I agree, what's the big deal.

 

[nhlfan79]

Y'all are talking past each other. Yes, there is no current interest in bringing an NHL team to Atlanta. That's not even debatable. However, we have no idea what Ressler's position is about hockey, as he's never been asked. All I know about him (and his independently super-rich wife, Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx) is that his passion is basketball, just like ASG's members. If hockey is a multi-franchise owner's secondary priority, it will never work in a non-traditional market.

Aqib is 100% wrong on the reason why Ressler hasn't shown affirmative interest in the NHL. It's not that this city couldn't be a thriving hockey market. It absolutely could, if it ever had been given a fair chance with genuinely committed ownership, given that half this city is made up of northern transplants. (If you read the Vivlamore article that you posted, focus on what Don Waddell said about the impact ASG's litigiousness had on the franchise.) Just look at the enthusiasm gap that Atlanta United captured. It revolutionized an entire sports league. That's sports mojo that the Thrashers never sought to (or wanted to) harness.

So, bottom line, the NHL's problems in Atlanta in 2021 are twofold. First, ASG's malfeasance in running the team and the NHL's utter failure to fight for this market have effectively salted the earth here, so disillusioned hockey fans here (and there are many) have no motivation to beg to get back into the league that shafted them. Second, in the Atlanta sports landscape, Atlanta United has totally filled the void the Thrashers abandoned, and any new team would now be competing for attention in an even more saturated market. Both of those consequences fall squarely at the feet of the NHL and Gary Bettman, ultimately. And Ressler certainly can read that situation and act (or not act) accordingly.

 

[GreenHornet]

Y'all are talking past each other. Yes, there is no current interest in bringing an NHL team to Atlanta. That's not even debatable. However, we have no idea what Ressler's position is about hockey, as he's never been asked. All I know about him (and his independently super-rich wife, Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx) is that his passion is basketball, just like ASG's members. If hockey is a multi-franchise owner's secondary priority, it will never work in a non-traditional market.

Bit of a clarification is necessary here. Ressler is actually married to actress Jami Gertz. Ms. Blakely is, in fact, the founder of Spanx, and she and her husband (Jessie Itzler) are part of Ressler's group as minority owners. I don't know exactly what percentage the couple control, but there are about three or four other minority partners in the group, including former NBA All-Star Grant Hill.