Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[HisIceness]

Easy.

More corporate money.

New arena means nothing if they don't have the dough.

There's also population. Fulton County alone has more population (Just above 1 million now) than QC does as a metro (800k).

Where would owners rather have a team, Atlanta or Quebec City? I think most would rather have Atlanta for reasons you stated (corporate $$$) and the fact that there's 6 million potential customers.

 

[StreetHawk]

The four markets I think the NHL has the most interest in are Houston/Austin, Atlanta, Québec and Hamilton/GTA2. Cleveland's not happening because they have the Blue Jackets covering Ohio already, and Portland won't either unless someone actually bothers to step up in that market.

Houston's self-explanatory, the NHL has wanted that market for decades at this point, and I think really regrets not letting the Aeros in during the WHA merger. Atlanta's a big market with a lot of corporate investors and a diverse economy, it's pretty well perfect as an NHL city if you find the right brains to run the darn team.

Québec is the biggest market left in Canada without an NHL franchise of any kind, and there's so much money to be made in having a second GTA team that I'd be surprised if it never happens.

Houston, in the late 90's expansion there were 3 bids from Houston. Les Alexander the Rockets owner of the NBA, the Aeros owner in the AHL, plus a 3rd party. From what I can remember, the NHL wanted the prospective owners to get an arena deal done before they would consider who would get the expansion team. But, the City of Houston was like, you're asking us to do potentially 3 different deals here as each owner is different, and regardless, we have to work with Les Alexander as he owns the NBA team. Think that was why Houston didn't get a team in the late 90's. In retrospect, the NHL should have picked 1 of the 3 bidders as the finalist from the Houston market to bid for a team, that would then have given them some clout in working with the city on an area which they would have to share with the Rockets.

Right now, both Houston and Atlanta are subject to the desire of the NBA team owner wishes of owning an NHL club. If neither wants one, then there isn't going to be a team there.

 

[HisIceness]

I'll add this, if the NHL wanted to get more racial diversity in the crowds/fanbases/etc., Atlanta would be a great market to tap into. Not only because of the Black population but the Hispanic and Asian population has grown there too. The city is a big-time melting pot.

I did missionary work there the year after the Thrashers left, I worked with some of those communities and a lot of them would tell me that they enjoyed the Thrashers games as opposed to the Hawks and that the Thrashers players were more generous towards the arena workers/fans/communities than the other teams were. It's a real shame they had such a shitty ownership group.

 

[voyageur]

There's also population. Fulton County alone has more population (Just above 1 million now) than QC does as a metro (800k).

Where would owners rather have a team, Atlanta or Quebec City? I think most would rather have Atlanta for reasons you stated (corporate $$$) and the fact that there's 6 million potential customers.

Corporations are going to be more prudent with their advertising. The NHL was in Atlanta and the team lost money. Consistently. If it were a slam dunk, ASG would have never been up for consideration as owners. With TNT on board, maybe Atlanta resurfaces, but it's only a relocation market, not an expansion market. Yes there are some heavy hitters that I am sure the NHL would like associated with their brand.

While dismissing population, you also have to factor in hockey fans. Quebec would have alot of them. That building would be sold out and rocking. Renewing the Nordiques-Habs rivalry would be great for French TV. Then merchandising. Guarantee the Nordiques sell a crapload more merch than any hockey team in Atlanta. That's revenue, which on top of purchasing value (hockey is a sport that fans will pay more to watch in Canada than the U.S) starts to level the playing field, instead of just looking at raw data, like potential fans, which are not actual fans.

I honestly don't think anyone is moving anytime soon. I expect the NHL to keep plugging Arizona, as hockey is growing in the market, and Austen Matthews could one day become the face of that franchise. That would be the only market I see in danger, maybe Florida, when their lease expires, but there is a committed ownership group in place.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Corporations are going to be more prudent with their advertising. The NHL was in Atlanta and the team lost money. Consistently. If it were a slam dunk, ASG would have never been up for consideration as owners. With TNT on board, maybe Atlanta resurfaces, but it's only a relocation market, not an expansion market. Yes there are some heavy hitters that I am sure the NHL would like associated with their brand.

Thrashers were bad their entire existence. Expecting to build fan base and make money from a poor product is just absurd.'

While dismissing population, you also have to factor in hockey fans. Quebec would have alot of them. That building would be sold out and rocking. Renewing the Nordiques-Habs rivalry would be great for French TV. Then merchandising. Guarantee the Nordiques sell a crapload more merch than any hockey team in Atlanta. That's revenue, which on top of purchasing value (hockey is a sport that fans will pay more to watch in Canada than the U.S) starts to level the playing field, instead of just looking at raw data, like potential fans, which are not actual fans.

I don't think theres too much money in French tv rights, and ticket sales are not gonna be enough. They need corporations to sponsor them and buy the suites.

 

[Fenway]

It's the ten-year anniversary of the Thrashers' relocation to Winnipeg, and the AJC wrote a good article about how it all went down, both from the players' perspective, as told by Chris Thorburn, as well as from the fans.

This is all on ASG. F--- them. I'm still quite bitter.

10 years later: A void in Atlanta after loss of Thrashers

The NHL is pretty well maxed out at 32 franchises. What sets the NHL apart from the other major sports is having franchises in 4 Canadian markets that the NFL, NBA, and MLB will never enter. 10 years from now could they go to 36 teams ( 4 divisions of 9 )

Relocation will happen at some point but who?

Franchises that are shaky include Arizona, Carolina, Florida, and Ottawa.

The biggest red flag with Florida is their TV ratings

Arizona is the never-ending arena saga

Carolina has improved under new ownership but can that owner be trusted.

Ottawa - Melnyk

The NHL would love to have a second team in Texas and Atlanta is the epicenter of the Southeast.

 

[Hooby Dooby Doo]

Florida is not moving. Actually, with the reconstruction of the War Memorial Auditorium in Ft. Lauderdale, it may prompt a move to the great Lauderdale-Miami area once the lease expires.

 

[HisIceness]

I'm confident the Canes will stay in town. The fanbase has been re-energized and the team has a very bright future. On top of that the new practice facility that has been sorely needed since the team came to Raleigh in 1999 was finally completed last year.

 

[TheLegend]

The NHL is pretty well maxed out at 32 franchises. What sets the NHL apart from the other major sports is having franchises in 4 Canadian markets that the NFL, NBA, and MLB will never enter. 10 years from now could they go to 36 teams ( 4 divisions of 9 )

Relocation will happen at some point but who?

Franchises that are shaky include Arizona, Carolina, Florida, and Ottawa.

The biggest red flag with Florida is their TV ratings

Arizona is the never-ending arena saga

Carolina has improved under new ownership but can that owner be trusted.

Ottawa - Melnyk

The NHL would love to have a second team in Texas and Atlanta is the epicenter of the Southeast.

Arizona’s arena saga??

When’s the last time anyone has really heard about Arizona and their arena? Other than it’s lease is open-ended and the city would like a long term commitment.

AFAIK, Meruelo still wants to build a new one in in the Phoenix Metro area. But he seems willing to stick it out at GRA for now.

 

[aqib]

Nope. Cleveland is not happening. Columbus exist to serve the entire Ohio market as a whole.

Columbus doesn't resonate with Cleveland fans. Ohio State Football does but no one in Cleveland talks about the Blue Jackets or Crew. That being said Cleveland doesn't have the corporate base to support a 4th major league franchise

 

[aqib]

Arizona’s arena saga??

When’s the last time anyone has really heard about Arizona and their arena? Other than it’s lease is open-ended and the city would like a long term commitment.

AFAIK, Meruelo still wants to build a new one in in the Phoenix Metro area. But he seems willing to stick it out at GRA for now.

Its funny people ripped Mayor Weiers for breaking the deal saying he was going to wind up with an empty arena. Well the original deal was supposed to run until 2028. We're already into 2021 and he has gotten 6 years of the team going year-to-year. I'd say its a safe bet that no new arena is opening up in Arizona for at least 4-5 years.

 

[Ernie]

Franchises that are shaky include Arizona, Carolina, Florida, and Ottawa.

Ottawa isn't really a shaky market. Certainly a better market than Winnipeg.

The owner, on the other hand..

 

[TheLegend]

Its funny people ripped Mayor Weiers for breaking the deal saying he was going to wind up with an empty arena. Well the original deal was supposed to run until 2028. We're already into 2021 and he has gotten 6 years of the team going year-to-year. I'd say its a safe bet that no new arena is opening up in Arizona for at least 4-5 years.

Weiers deserved to be ripped for how he went about it.

He still can end up with an empty arena with at least a decade’s worth of bond payments owed on it after that 4-5 years are up.

If he’s even in office by then.

 

[StreetHawk]

The NHL is pretty well maxed out at 32 franchises. What sets the NHL apart from the other major sports is having franchises in 4 Canadian markets that the NFL, NBA, and MLB will never enter. 10 years from now could they go to 36 teams ( 4 divisions of 9 )

Relocation will happen at some point but who?

Franchises that are shaky include Arizona, Carolina, Florida, and Ottawa.

The biggest red flag with Florida is their TV ratings

Arizona is the never-ending arena saga

Carolina has improved under new ownership but can that owner be trusted.

Ottawa - Melnyk

The NHL would love to have a second team in Texas and Atlanta is the epicenter of the Southeast.

At the same time the nhl isn’t going into some of the Nba markets given that the new arena for the nba is basketball specific this never capable of holding 18k for hockey just around 12-13k only.

Plus with nba teams already in some markets it’s then up to the nba owner to decide if they want a team or not.

doubt the nhl is eyeing teams for SA, Utah, Sacramento, Indiana, okc, New Orleans.

 

[aqib]

Weiers deserved to be ripped for how he went about it.

He still can end up with an empty arena with at least a decade’s worth of bond payments owed on it after that 4-5 years are up.

If he’s even in office by then.

The original deal would have left them with 5 years of bond payments on an empty arena (bonds were scheduled to run until 2033 while the deal was running until 2028). So I sincerely doubt there is any arena deal happening anywhere in Arizona for at least another 2 years. So if you break ground in 2023 you're looking at 2026 before they leave Glendale so AT MOST he would have cost them 2 years having the Coyotes in the arena. Given that millions he saved thats a good trade.

 

[StreetHawk]

The original deal would have left them with 5 years of bond payments on an empty arena (bonds were scheduled to run until 2033 while the deal was running until 2028). So I sincerely doubt there is any arena deal happening anywhere in Arizona for at least another 2 years. So if you break ground in 2023 you're looking at 2026 before they leave Glendale so AT MOST he would have cost them 2 years having the Coyotes in the arena. Given that millions he saved thats a good trade.

Is another city/county in AZ going to partner up with the coyotes in building another arena? Suns are staying out in Phoenix. ASU is building a smaller one for their teams.

if the coyotes want a new arena it likely has to be privately funded to the tune of $600 plus million.

the price tags for the arenas for the Isles and Kraken are insane.

 

[aqib]

Is another city/county in AZ going to partner up with the coyotes in building another arena? Suns are staying out in Phoenix. ASU is building a smaller one for their teams.

if the coyotes want a new arena it likely has to be privately funded to the tune of $600 plus million.

the price tags for the arenas for the Isles and Kraken are insane.

I don't think any other city will which further backs my point that Weiers was smart to break the deal because the Coyotes aren't going anywhere in AZ.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't think any other city will which further backs my point that Weiers was smart to break the deal because the Coyotes aren't going anywhere in AZ.

I agree. I think any city will look at Phoenix and Glendale and say there are a pair of 18K arenas out there. Why are we going to build another one that is what an hour drive away from Glendale. 3 arenas competing for non NBA/NHL events. Pie likely isn't big enough to make it work in that market.

Florida is not moving. Actually, with the reconstruction of the War Memorial Auditorium in Ft. Lauderdale, it may prompt a move to the great Lauderdale-Miami area once the lease expires.

How close would that be to the Heat's arena?

 

[Hockeyholic]

I don't think any other city will which further backs my point that Weiers was smart to break the deal because the Coyotes aren't going anywhere in AZ.

Thought they could potentially move back to Phoenix? Gary has said he feels good about their chances of staying.

 

[CanadianCoyote]

I don't think any other city will which further backs my point that Weiers was smart to break the deal because the Coyotes aren't going anywhere in AZ.

It's not a secret at all that Meruelo and the Coyotes want an arena in the East Valley (so in one of Tempe/Scottsdale/Mesa/Chandler), and they could absolutely build one on the lot just north of the Rising's complex beside Firebird Lake at Wild Horse Pass.

That'd be just about 10 minutes from the Ice Den in Chandler and right by a couple of Gila River hotels and casinos.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

Thought they could potentially move back to Phoenix? Bittman has said he feels good about their chances of staying.

Doubt Downtown Phoenix is an option unless Meruelo is willing to pay Sarver for hockey renovations for Suns Arena or he buys and renovates Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum. So basically not happening with Meruelo getting approval/agreement with Sarver.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Doubt Downtown Phoenix is an option unless Meruelo is willing to pay Sarver for hockey renovations for Suns Arena or he buys and renovates Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum. So basically not happening with Meruelo getting approval/agreement with Sarver.

So when do the relocation rumors cease to exist?

Been 13 years now.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

So when do the relocation rumors cease to exist?

Been 13 years now.

There are few legitimate sources still peddling relocation rumors for any NHL teams. The few people who say teams are changing markets are know nothings on HFB....

Shouldn't you be off somewhere saying that Halifax deserves a NHL team?

 

[aqib]

It's not a secret at all that Meruelo and the Coyotes want an arena in the East Valley (so in one of Tempe/Scottsdale/Mesa/Chandler), and they could absolutely build one on the lot just north of the Rising's complex beside Firebird Lake at Wild Horse Pass.

That'd be just about 10 minutes from the Ice Den in Chandler and right by a couple of Gila River hotels and casinos.

Sure he COULD if he spent $500 million of his own money but is there any indication he will? If not which one of those cities will pay up? Ellman wanted to build in Scottsdale but they didn't go along with it. LeBlanc announced a deal in Tempe and that went by the wayside. So unless he will pay that himself which would be difficult to pencil out he is at GRA for a while.

 

[TheLegend]

The original deal would have left them with 5 years of bond payments on an empty arena (bonds were scheduled to run until 2033 while the deal was running until 2028). So I sincerely doubt there is any arena deal happening anywhere in Arizona for at least another 2 years. So if you break ground in 2023 you're looking at 2026 before they leave Glendale so AT MOST he would have cost them 2 years having the Coyotes in the arena. Given that millions he saved thats a good trade.

Overall the city hasn’t saved much. It still costs them ~$6 million per year to operate the arena. The one and only audit of Ice Arizona showed a savings of about $2 million for that one year their original lease was in force.

But nevertheless….. of course you doubt it. And we aren’t working under the original deal here. Coyotes are technically a relocatable entity at their discretion. Whether it be across town or the continent.

Just as people have been saying no city/state agency in Arizona would ever go along with a funding scheme involving public funds. Yet the MLB Diamondbacks just got one to allow them up to $500 million in improvements to Chase Field. City of Phoenix forked over a couple hundred million to the Suns for their arena improvements.

All of it on the premise that these public entities will get a return.

You said earlier you were amused. I’m equally amused with how many old talking points keep getting pushed around regarding the Coyotes. Especially when it’s not even a thread about them.