Will another hockey player ever have Gretzky's wide appeal and notoriety?

[Big Phil]

The Hockey News had an article about it the other day. Remember when Gretzky was on Saturday Night Live in 1989? The whole "Wayne's World" skit and the "Waikiki Hockey" skit? Just hard to believe a hockey player doing that nowadays but it was no different than if Lebron James (has he ever hosted SNL?) would host. That's how big Gretzky was at the time. Especially after his first season in L.A. But it was more than that, in 1982 he was on Johnny Carson, there was Pro-Stars cereal. I don't mean he was on the front of a Wheaties box, I mean he had his own cereal.

The question they ask in the article is how did Gretzky have this popularity and notoriety? There was no Twitter or Facebook, no Youtube where you could watch his highlights over and over so why was he so much more famous than any hockey player before him or since? I know, I know, he broke records he was the greatest and he won Cups and helped the game in the Sun Belt. So maybe that is the reason and to top it all off he dominated the game so well that perhaps only Babe Ruth ever did that well (and even then.......) in his sport.

That could be the reason, he was just too great to ignore. But go beyond sports. You knew the name "Wayne Gretzky" like you knew the name Babe Ruth or Muhammad Ali or names like Walt Disney, George Lucas, Luke Skywalker or even whatever President was in the Oval Office at the time (Reagan for a lot of the time). If said either of these names and then said Wayne Gretzky, was it out of place? Was it any different than Michael Jordan?

So it brings me to today's game. How can a player get that sort of overall appeal? The best players in the game over the years have been Crosby, McDavid, Malkin and Ovechkin. The first two, while popular, are more quiet, seem like they would rather prefer to have quiet nights at home and to this day I've never known the name of either girlfriend they've had. We knew Janet. We watched the wedding like it was Prince Charles and Diana getting married. We knew Walter like he was our own dad. Malkin and Ovechkin may have the language issue in the way, although not Ovechkin by any means because he is flamboyant in the sort of way you'd like to see for the game. And there is another thing, Gretzky wasn't flamboyant, he wasn't a braggart, he didn't even fight. All he was was sociable. Crosby and McDavid are more like someone such as Joe Sakic. Nothing wrong with that, but they were different than Gretzky in that way.

So the question I am asking is, does the NHL not promote their stars as good as they used to or was it the fact that Gretzky was just so cartoonishly good that he couldn't be ignored and we've never seen one like that since?

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[Killion]

Oh sure they will. They just dont happen to have one, havent had one since Gretzky & to a lesser extent Mario Lemieux. An "It Boy". Superstar or even Star Player who transcends the game, is affable, identifiable, Crosby unfortunately lacking in personality while Ovi who has personality plus, very very likeable... well, he's a bit handcuffed in that he's Russian & North American audiences have a hard time relating to Russian & European players in general no matter how good they are. And of Alex, an absolute Dandy of a player, highly amusing individual to boot, beyond quotable.... This subject has been discussed at length on the Business of Hockey Board including sponsorship dollars comparing NHL players to their counterparts in everything from the NBA, NFL, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Boxing & MMA etc.... Crosby, Malkin, Ovi well down the depth charts I'm afraid.... But sure. Someone'll come along. Not seeing anyone currently (Kane, McDavid, Matthews).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The Hockey News had an article about it the other day. Remember when Gretzky was on Saturday Night Live in 1989? The whole "Wayne's World" skit and the "Waikiki Hockey" skit? Just hard to believe a hockey player doing that nowadays but it was no different than if Lebron James (has he ever hosted SNL?) would host. That's how big Gretzky was at the time. Especially after his first season in L.A. But it was more than that, in 1982 he was on Johnny Carson, there was Pro-Stars cereal. I don't mean he was on the front of a Wheaties box, I mean he had his own cereal.

The question they ask in the article is how did Gretzky have this popularity and notoriety? There was no Twitter or Facebook, no Youtube where you could watch his highlights over and over so why was he so much more famous than any hockey player before him or since? I know, I know, he broke records he was the greatest and he won Cups and helped the game in the Sun Belt. So maybe that is the reason and to top it all off he dominated the game so well that perhaps only Babe Ruth ever did that well (and even then.......) in his sport.

That could be the reason, he was just too great to ignore. But go beyond sports. You knew the name "Wayne Gretzky" like you knew the name Babe Ruth or Muhammad Ali or names like Walt Disney, George Lucas, Luke Skywalker or even whatever President was in the Oval Office at the time (Reagan for a lot of the time). If said either of these names and then said Wayne Gretzky, was it out of place? Was it any different than Michael Jordan?

So it brings me to today's game. How can a player get that sort of overall appeal? The best players in the game over the years have been Crosby, McDavid, Malkin and Ovechkin. The first two, while popular, are more quiet, seem like they would rather prefer to have quiet nights at home and to this day I've never known the name of either girlfriend they've had. We knew Janet. We watched the wedding like it was Prince Charles and Diana getting married. We knew Walter like he was our own dad. Malkin and Ovechkin may have the language issue in the way, although not Ovechkin by any means because he is flamboyant in the sort of way you'd like to see for the game. And there is another thing, Gretzky wasn't flamboyant, he wasn't a braggart, he didn't even fight. All he was was sociable. Crosby and McDavid are more like someone such as Joe Sakic. Nothing wrong with that, but they were different than Gretzky in that way.

So the question I am asking is, does the NHL not promote their stars as good as they used to or was it the fact that Gretzky was just so cartoonishly good that he couldn't be ignored and we've never seen one like that since?

Musical guests:

Fine Young Cannibals

 

[MXD]

If PK Subban was a better player (not that he's bad, but he never had the league-wide status of Crosby or AO or McDavid), he would probabably have been that guy.

 

[streitz]

Gretzky was promoted by the league big time, plenty of people disliked him especially in the 80's. People called him Whine Gretzky.


I started to dislike him less later in his career. Like everyone we always respected his talent but to me he always seemed like a spoiled rich kid stereotype.

 

[FerrisRox]

Gretzky was promoted by the league big time, plenty of people disliked him especially in the 80's. People called him Whine Gretzky.


I started to dislike him less later in his career. Like everyone we always respected his talent but to me he always seemed like a spoiled rich kid stereotype.

This is false.

The league was abysmal in promoting their players through the bulk of Wayne Gretzky's career. Particularly in the 1980's, they did virtually nothing to promote their players at all. Not only was he not promoted "big time" by the league, he was essentially not promoted *at all* by the league.

Gretzky was simply so dominant that he became impossible to ignore and transcended the sport. Gretzky cameoed on The Young & The Restless, he did jeans commercials with a national campaign, he appeared on cereal boxes, hosted Saturday Night Live and was a recurring character on a Saturday Morning cartoon.

The league will never, ever have a player again that captures the attention of people that don't even follow or care about hockey like they did with Wayne Gretzky.

 

[streitz]

This is false.

The league was abysmal in promoting their players through the bulk of Wayne Gretzky's career. Particularly in the 1980's, they did virtually nothing to promote their players at all. Not only was he not promoted "big time" by the league, he was essentially not promoted *at all* by the league.

Gretzky was simply so dominant that he became impossible to ignore and transcended the sport. Gretzky cameoed on The Young & The Restless, he did jeans commercials with a national campaign, he appeared on cereal boxes, hosted Saturday Night Live and was a recurring character on a Saturday Morning cartoon.

The league will never, ever have a player again that captures the attention of people that don't even follow or care about hockey like they did with Wayne Gretzky.

 

[koyvoo]

Gretzky was promoted by the league big time, plenty of people disliked him especially in the 80's. People called him Whine Gretzky.


I started to dislike him less later in his career. Like everyone we always respected his talent but to me he always seemed like a spoiled rich kid stereotype.

Meanwhile, his upbringing and dedication to work ethic was completely the opposite.

 

[FerrisRox]

Do you think the league made this commercial and then sold it to 7-Up?

 

[FerrisRox]

Meanwhile, his upbringing and dedication to work ethic was completely the opposite.

It's a false narrative anyway. There's always going to be a group of people who dislike the best player and malign him. People calling Crosby a "crybaby" in more recent times is a good example, but suggesting that lots of people disliked Gretzky is revisionist history. He was very well liked, which is why Canadian companies flocked to him droves as a spokesperson. He was clean cut, polite, family-first and controversy free. A good ol' Canadian boy.

 

[streitz]

Meanwhile, his upbringing and dedication to work ethic was completely the opposite.

I don't think any of his detractors questioned how hard he worked on his game so he could score 200 points a year. Doesn't mean watching him cry to the refs after almost every whistle then listen to his aww shucks fake attitude in post game interviews made him appealing to everyone.

 

[koyvoo]

I don't think any of his detractors questioned how hard he worked on his game so he could score 200 points a year. Doesn't mean watching him cry to the refs after almost every whistle then listen to his aww shucks fake attitude in post game interviews made him appealing to everyone.

Ya. I watched him grow on tv too. That was far from reality.

 

[streitz]

but suggesting that lots of people disliked Gretzky is revisionist history. .

He wasn't well like at all in Winnipeg. People respected his skill which was the end of it. Unless he was playing for team Canada he was booed every time he touched the puck, as well as the aforementioned Whine Gretzky nickname among others.


Nowdays people even his Calgary and Winnipeg obviously don't care about hating him anymore, and memories of him are tied in with happy memories of fun hockey in the 80's.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

big phil you are misrepresenting gretzky’s popularity big time, imo.

him on SNL was absolutely not the same as if lebron or jordan was on it. he was NOT remotely muhammed ali or babe ruth, or joe montana then, or brady now. him hosting SNL would be like connor mcgregor hosting it today—the best athlete in an emerging but still niche/regional sport with ambitions to mainstream itself and a tv network (nbc) testing the waters to cross it over (whereby they would jump in and grab the tv rights).

as for why and how gretzky? numbers. for ppl who didn’t (or, in a lot of us markets, couldn’t) watch hockey, his achievements were easy to write about, and easy to understand. some of my fav hockey writing tries to explain the genius of gretzky. but even if that means nothing to you, 215 >>> 145, 92 >> 76, 39 < 50, 163 >>>>>>> 101. and the average casual sports fan is going to say, i’d like to watch that.

nobody is saying, gee i’d like to see this crosby guy’s lower body strength as he works the boards.

 

[FerrisRox]

big phil you are misrepresenting gretzky’s popularity big time, imo.

I don't think he's misrepresenting it at all. Gretzky like no hockey player before or since, enjoyed popularity that extended well beyond hockey.

Gretzky was doing commercials for GWG jeans, appearing on soap operas, promoting Nike (appearing in the popular Bo Jackson campaign) McDonalds, Bud Light, Coke, 7-UP, and various video games in national ad campaigns, he has his own cereal, which he did national commercial for, Gretzky did a guest spot on The Young & The Restless (playing a mobster from "the Edmonton Operation) he was the subject of a series of Andy Warhol portraits, he was guest on the Tonight Show and Arsenio Hall, appeared, as himself, on The Simpsons, his trade earned him a cover spot (with Magic Johnson) on Sports Illustrated, he had his own cartoon that paired him with Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson, appeared in an MC Hammer and Nickelback music videos and, of course, hosted Saturday Night Live.

Gretzky's popularity, in the 1980's and into the 1990's, was absolutely enormous. Gretzky was so popular and so well known that after doing a series of commercials with his Dad Walter, Walter began to appear in ads and campaigns by himself.

 

[kaiser matias]

Lebron James (has he ever hosted SNL?) would host

Just for the record he did back in 2007, and has possibly been back, but I haven't watched in years.

 

[streitz]

I don't think he's misrepresenting it at all. Gretzky like no hockey player before or since, enjoyed popularity that extended well beyond hockey.

Gretzky was doing commercials for GWG jeans, appearing on soap operas, promoting Nike (appearing in the popular Bo Jackson campaign) McDonalds, Bud Light, Coke, 7-UP, and various video games in national ad campaigns, he has his own cereal, which he did national commercial for, Gretzky did a guest spot on The Young & The Restless (playing a mobster from "the Edmonton Operation) he was the subject of a series of Andy Warhol portraits, he was guest on the Tonight Show and Arsenio Hall, appeared, as himself, on The Simpsons, his trade earned him a cover spot (with Magic Johnson) on Sports Illustrated, he had his own cartoon that paired him with Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson, appeared in an MC Hammer and Nickelback music videos and, of course, hosted Saturday Night Live.

Gretzky's popularity, in the 1980's and into the 1990's, was absolutely enormous. Gretzky was so popular and so well known that after doing a series of commercials with his Dad Walter, Walter began to appear in ads and campaigns by himself.

None of that makes him popular, it just means he was shoved down people's throats.

 

[Mr. Fancy Pants]

None of that makes him popular, it just means he was shoved down people's throats.

TV shows aren't going to have him on if he's not already popular. Same with commercials.

The fact is Gretzky was so far above everyone that he became one of those rare athletes that became known to others outside of their sport. He usually had the Art Ross wrapped up by Christmas break. I still hold out hope that one day we'll see another player like him who is so far above the rest of the league but with each crop of young stars that don't pan out to be the "next one" it does make it tougher to believe that we'll see someone like him again.

If that player does happen to come along and is constantly outscoring the other top players in the league by 50+% then I'm sure they'll have the same level of popularity unless they're just completely terrible in front of a camera.

 

[The Panther]

Big Phil raises a good point -- the NHL is making more money than ever today (by far), with far more franchises in non-traditional markets in the USA, and yet has failed to capture mass-public imagination or general popular-interest the way it did in the 1970s to early 1990s.

Gretzky's phenomenon of brand-name fame is indeed hard to believe, looking back on it. I mean, his name was known to everyone in the 80s, including those who'd never watched a hockey game in their lives. It was at a level of name-value impossible to even imagine with any of today's NHL stars. Can anyone imagine Connor McDavid on a network Saturday morning cartoon or Crosby having his portrait painted by Andy Warhol?

Mostly it was due to Gretzky's on-ice brilliance and off-ice friendly, likable demeanor, but I think part of it was also due to the era. Then, there is the fact that fans -- esp. Americans -- love record-breaking. Big, fancy stats are always going to impress casual and non-fans more than everyday greatness that only aficionados can appreciate.

The 70s strikes me as a kind of a "wild" era in everything, including entertainment businesses and sports, while the 80s strikes me as more of a "wide-open" era in that anything was possible and people's minds were willing to engage possibilities. After the early-90s, hockey-related things seemed to go back into little boxes where they'd been in the 50s and 60s.

 

[VanIslander]

In the age of social media I TOTALLY believe some charismatic youngster with the flair for the dramatic and hot looks will go VIRAL, maybe dating some famous singer or being on some popular show during his summer off, etc.

A Bo Jackson... it'll happen.

 

[Captain Bowie]

In the age of Social Media, probably come close at least. Problem is these guys like McDavid and Crosby just don't seem to have the outgoing personality to benefit from it enough.

 

[FerrisRox]

None of that makes him popular, it just means he was shoved down people's throats.

You can't be serious.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I don't think he's misrepresenting it at all. Gretzky like no hockey player before or since, enjoyed popularity that extended well beyond hockey.

Gretzky was doing commercials for GWG jeans, appearing on soap operas, promoting Nike (appearing in the popular Bo Jackson campaign) McDonalds, Bud Light, Coke, 7-UP, and various video games in national ad campaigns, he has his own cereal, which he did national commercial for, Gretzky did a guest spot on The Young & The Restless (playing a mobster from "the Edmonton Operation) he was the subject of a series of Andy Warhol portraits, he was guest on the Tonight Show and Arsenio Hall, appeared, as himself, on The Simpsons, his trade earned him a cover spot (with Magic Johnson) on Sports Illustrated, he had his own cartoon that paired him with Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson, appeared in an MC Hammer and Nickelback music videos and, of course, hosted Saturday Night Live.

Gretzky's popularity, in the 1980's and into the 1990's, was absolutely enormous. Gretzky was so popular and so well known that after doing a series of commercials with his Dad Walter, Walter began to appear in ads and campaigns by himself.

i didn’t say gretzky wasn’t all those things. i said he wasn’t lebron, babe ruth, muhammed ali, luke skywalker, and walt disney.

there’s a difference

 

[FerrisRox]

i didn’t say gretzky wasn’t all those things. i said he wasn’t lebron, babe ruth, muhammed ali, luke skywalker, and walt disney.

there’s a difference

He said Gretzky had name cache that transcended his sport like those athletes did and that was absolutely true.

 

[The Panther]

Incidentally, what is the "notoriety" part of Gretzky...?