Michael Russo: Wild signing a number of players today

[Spurgeon]

We have not lost any of our top 6 and have not lost any of our top 4. Those are the impact players that make or break a team in the standings. We were fighting for first place in our division last year... and other than Pominville's departure, everyone coming in to replace those who have left are at least equal to, if not better than those outgoing.

JEE >= Haula
Pominville >= Ennis
Quincey = Folin
Olofsson >= Scandella
Foligno > Graovac AND Schreoder

We have maintained solid depth and depending on what happens now with 4th line center, we could have a much better 4th line even this year than we had last.

Just really disagree with your assesments. You're really relying on internal improvements that we do not know are going to be true. You're predicting JEE and Olofsson are going to be better players (in the upcoming season) based off of like 10-15 games of NHL experience. I'm not as optimistic. How I have it for next year is:

Pominville > Ennis

Scandella > Olofsson

Folin > Quincey

Haula = JEE

I just really think that moving Scandella was the wrong move, especially when we took back a cap dump of Ennis. We should've signed who we needed on the 1st by using our allotment of being able to go over the cap in the offseason. Then moved Pominville at $1.6 million retained to any of the 20 teams that may have been interested in him. We would have had $17.5 million to resign Nino, Granlund, 3RW, 4C, and 4LW. Would've been more than enough and we keep the dynamic of our team together, the defense.

I don't really care about the depth signings very much, I care more about the position we are currently in.

Would have rather eased Olofsson into his role by keeping Scandella and having Olofsson be our #6. We're not going to be looking good if Olofsson does not pan out how we are all hoping him to.


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Which Lineup Looks Better?

TEAM A:

Zucker - Koivu - Granlund

Parise - Staal - Nino

JEE - Cullen - Coyle

Kunitz - Moore - Stewart

13F

Suter - Spurgeon

Brodin - Dumba

Scandella - Olofsson

Prosser

TEAM B:

Zucker - Koivu - Granlund

Parise - Staal - Nino

JEE - Ennis - Coyle

Foligno - Cullen - Stewart

13F

Suter - Spurgeon

Brodin - Dumba

Olofsson - Quincey

Prosser

 

[Wabit]

TEAM A:

Zucker - Koivu - Granlund
Parise - Staal - Nino
JEE - Cullen - Coyle
Kunitz - Moore - Stewart
13F

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Scandella - Olofsson
Prosser

There is a lot of assumptions with this lineup. Pommer gone at full price is the only way it would work (it would probably be an add of Kunin to make it happen). Kunitz @ $2m+ (maybe)$1m in bonuses, Cullen @ ~$1m, Moore @ $1m, Granny and Nino resigned for ~$11m. That is $15-16m in that grouping without any pressbox players.

 

[Mnsportsfan22]

I would rather have lineup B for offense and A for defense... so what's your point

 

[Ban Hammered]

No way that A lineup fits under the cap.

 

[Spurgeon]

No way that A lineup fits under the cap.

Absolutely does. Kunitz got $2M, Cullen gets $1M, Moore got $1M.

$4 million for them. $11 million for Granlund/Nino. $2 million for pressbox (only need $1.5M probably).

Hence why I'm disappointed in how this offseason has gone.

I would rather have lineup B for offense and A for defense... so what's your point

The point is that the defense in A is a lot stronger than the defense in B. More so than the offense in B is over the offense in B. We have more players that can fill in for the Top 6 than we have defensemen that can fill in for the Top 4 in case of injuries. Scandella was perfect to keep for another year and get Olofsson accustomed to an NHL game.

 

[Mnsportsfan22]

Absolutely does. Kunitz got $2M, Cullen gets $1M, Moore got $1M.

$4 million for them. $11 million for Granlund/Nino. $2 million for pressbox (only need $1.5M probably).

Hence why I'm disappointed in how this offseason has gone.

You are also assuming teams wanted pom at 1.6 retained and that all those players wanted to come here at that price

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Absolutely does. Kunitz got $2M, Cullen gets $1M, Moore got $1M.

$4 million for them. $11 million for Granlund/Nino. $2 million for pressbox (only need $1.5M probably).

Hence why I'm disappointed in how this offseason has gone.

You're over by ~$500k. Need to factor in Vanek's buyout.

Also assumes that Pominville was moved without retaining; an iffy assumption.

 

[Spurgeon]

You are also assuming teams wanted pom at 1.6 retained and that all those players wanted to come here at that price

Maybe those players don't want to come at those prices, there's plenty of alternatives. This FA was filled with bottom 6 depth players, much more so than it was with 3rd pairing defensemen.

A team would absolutely take Pominville at $4 million, even so, we could toss in a 3rd-5th.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Maybe those players don't want to come at those prices, there's plenty of alternatives. This FA was filled with bottom 6 depth players, much more so than it was with 3rd pairing defensemen.

A team would absolutely take Pominville at $4 million, even so, we could toss in a 3rd-5th.

I thought so too, until it seems nobody did.

 

[Ban Hammered]

A team would absolutely take Pominville at $4 million, even so, we could toss in a 3rd-5th.

If someone would have ..it would have happened.

 

[Spurgeon]

You're over by ~$500k. Need to factor in Vanek's buyout.

Also assumes that Pominville was moved without retaining; an iffy assumption.

Zucker ($2M) - Koivu ($6.75M) - Granlund ($5.5M)

Nino ($5.5M) - Staal ($3.5M) - Parise ($7.5M)

JEE ($0.9M) - Cullen ($1M) - Coyle ($3.2M)

Kunitz ($2M) - Moore ($1M) - Stewart ($1.15M)

13F ($0.7M)

Suter ($7.5M) - Spurgeon ($5.2M)

Brodin ($4.2M) - Dumba ($2.55M)

Scandella ($4M) - Olofsson ($0.7M)

Prosser ($0.7M)

Dubnyk ($4.3M)

Stalock ($0.65M)

That lineup right there puts us at $70.5 million. Add $2.5M for Vanek's buyout and $1.6M for Pominville and we're at $74.6M.

If someone would have ..it would have happened.

Well considering Fletcher didn't even wait until Pominville's list changed to 21 teams, we won't know...

 

[Ban Hammered]

Well considering Fletcher didn't even wait until Pominville's list changed to 21 teams, we won't know...

Free agency must be taken into account also. Teams are not as likely to give up assets(especially for an overpaid 3rd liner) after it when they can just sign someone.

 

[Spurgeon]

Free agency must be taken into account also. Teams are not as likely to give up assets(especially for an overpaid 3rd liner) after it when they can just sign someone.

Pominville is absolutely not overpaid at $4 million. He's been among the Top 30 RWers in scoring. We wouldn't be asking for assets from other teams, we'd be giving them an asset if we needed to. Obviously we don't know what the discussions between Chuck and the GMs were, but I just don't see how there wasn't a deal to be made with any team.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Pominville is absolutely not overpaid at $4 million. He's been among the Top 30 RWers in scoring. We wouldn't be asking for assets from other teams, we'd be giving them an asset if we needed to. Obviously we don't know what the discussions between Chuck and the GMs were, but I just don't see how there wasn't a deal to be made with any team.

He is overpaid as his goal total sucks and his only good asset is his shot. And yes we would be asking for assets as Fletcher made it clear we did not want picks for moving Pominville.

 

[TaLoN]

Pretty sure Fletcher had a good sense of his value at that point. Yes he got 47 points, but he played in very sheltered minutes on the 3rd line. The rest of the league sees that, and they see what he did the year before. He's not as appealing as a lot of people assumed he was.

Scandella for Foligno and a 3rd.
Pominville and a 4th for Ennis.

That's how Russo broke it down.

 

[Spurgeon]

He is overpaid as his goal total sucks and his only good asset is his shot. And yes we would be asking for assets as Fletcher made it clear we did not want picks for moving Pominville.

We didn't get any assets for moving Pominville, so I don't know what you're talking about with Fletcher not wanting picks for Pominville. He would jump at that in a second IMO. We got assets for moving Scandella and they aren't promising.

Pretty sure Fletcher had a good sense of his value at that point. Yes he got 47 points, but he played in very sheltered minutes on the 3rd line. The rest of the league sees that, and they see what he did the year before. He's not as appealing as a lot of people assumed he was.

Putting up 47 points on a 3rd line is pretty damn impressive. He still got PK duties and he still played responsibly defensively. I just don't understand how he would hold negative value at a $4 million contract.

 

[Bazeek]

We didn't get any assets for moving Pominville, so I don't know what you're talking about with Fletcher not wanting picks for Pominville. He would jump at that in a second IMO. We got assets for moving Scandella and they aren't promising.



Putting up 47 points on a 3rd line is pretty damn impressive. He still got PK duties and he still played responsibly defensively. I just don't understand how he would hold negative value at a $4 million contract.

He has value, but getting a team to take all $4m back without any cap coming our way was probably not likely with a flat cap. It sounds like Fletcher tried to more or less do that with Scandella (if the talk about the draft day deal with Montreal is true) and even that was apparently a pretty hard sell. Even with the Montreal deal there may well have been cap coming back our way.

 

[Ban Hammered]

We didn't get any assets for moving Pominville, so I don't know what you're talking about with Fletcher not wanting picks for Pominville. He would jump at that in a second IMO. We got assets for moving Scandella and they aren't promising.

Now you are making up your own narrative here. Go read some comments from Fletcher as he said specifically we did not want picks or prospects so no he wouldn't have jumped at that. Also we didn't get Ennis and Foligno just because of Scandella.

 

[Spurgeon]

Now you are making up your own narrative here. Go read some comments from Fletcher as he said specifically we did not want picks or prospects so no he wouldn't have jumped at that. Also we didn't get Ennis and Foligno just because of Scandella.

It's not making up a narrative, it's common sense. You don't think Fletcher would accept a deal of Pominville for a 7th? Cause I don't think I want him as a GM if he wouldn't have taken that. Ennis is a cap dump. Foligno is a 4th liner. We got absolutely hosed in that deal.

 

[TaLoN]

Now you are making up your own narrative here. Go read some comments from Fletcher as he said specifically we did not want picks or prospects so no he wouldn't have jumped at that. Also we didn't get Ennis and Foligno just because of Scandella.

Exactly, see my earlier post...

Pretty sure Fletcher had a good sense of his value at that point. Yes he got 47 points, but he played in very sheltered minutes on the 3rd line. The rest of the league sees that, and they see what he did the year before. He's not as appealing as a lot of people assumed he was.

Scandella for Foligno and a 3rd.
Pominville and a 4th for Ennis.

That's how Russo broke it down.

It's not making up a narrative, it's common sense. You don't think Fletcher would accept a deal of Pominville for a 7th? Cause I don't think I want him as a GM if he wouldn't have taken that. Ennis is a cap dump. Foligno is a 4th liner. We got absolutely hosed in that deal.

Common sense in a bubble without any information on what teams were actually asking/offering. You are making assumptions based on your own idea of perceived values.

Fletcher has to deal with ACTUAL values that teams are willing to deal due to tight cap issues league wide.

VERY FEW TEAMS could just take on his full $5.6m for a 7th... Also, a 7th has next to no chance in turning into anything anyway. At least Ennis was something once, and if he can actually return to form, might fill the Pominville role himself. He brings more skills to the table than Poms does, and plays with more energy besides.

 

[Spurgeon]

He has value, but getting a team to take all $4m back without any cap coming our way was probably not likely with a flat cap. It sounds like Fletcher tried to more or less do that with Scandella (if the talk about the draft day deal with Montreal is true) and even that was apparently a pretty hard sell. Even with the Montreal deal there may well have been cap coming back our way.

Very true and it doesn't help that the cap hardly moved. I just feel like there had to have been a team that would have taken him and a pick. Guess not though. Feel like he could've waited a few more days to make a deal, since you can go over the cap in the offseason. We'll never know though and we'll just have to see how Ennis and Foligno perform. I hope I'm wrong about them and I can eat crow about 11 months from now when we're hoisting the Cup.

Scandella for Foligno and a 3rd.
Pominville and a 4th for Ennis.

That's how Russo broke it down.

And that's why I'm disappointed in Fletcher. Both of those deals are terrible for the Wild.

Pominville is better than Ennis and he makes only $1M more. They should be giving us the pick for taking Ennis.

Scandella is worth more than a 4th liner and a 3rd.

 

[Ban Hammered]

It's not making up a narrative, it's common sense. You don't think Fletcher would accept a deal of Pominville for a 7th? Cause I don't think I want him as a GM if he wouldn't have taken that. Ennis is a cap dump. Foligno is a 4th liner. We got absolutely hosed in that deal.

Considering he SAID IT....no he wouldn't take a 7th round pick for Poms...especially if we are retaining. That's worse than what we got. And again...the biggest thing we got was cap space and flexibility. If Ennis stays hurt...he goes LTIR.

 

[Spurgeon]

Considering he SAID IT....no he wouldn't take a 7th round pick for Poms...especially if we are retaining. That's worse than what we got. And again...the biggest thing we got was cap space and flexibility. If Ennis stays hurt...he goes LTIR.

Can I get a direct quote from Fletcher? If he actually said that and meant it, he's an idiot. Clearing $5.6 million of space would have been so much more useful than losing Scandella and adding Foligno and Ennis. LTIR does nothing to help us because we need to be under the cap before the season starts.

 

[TaLoN]

Can I get a direct quote from Fletcher? If he actually said that and meant it, he's an idiot. Clearing $5.6 million of space would have been so much more useful than losing Scandella and adding Foligno and Ennis. LTIR does nothing to help us because we need to be under the cap before the season starts.

The cap only takes effect the opening week of the season, AFTER pre-season. Players come and go from IR before that due to injuries reported in training camp/preseason games etc.

 

[Spurgeon]

The cap only takes effect the opening week of the season, AFTER pre-season. Players come and go from IR before that due to injuries reported in training camp/preseason games etc.

So we'd theoretically be able to go over the cap leading into the season? I've never quite understood how the LTIR loophole worked.