Post-Game Talk: wild @ avs 1 pm mdt | not winning for mckinning

[ColoradoSportsFan]

I always said way back when that coaching was the difference between us and the wings. Bowman outcoached us more often then not. Sacco sucks and never should have lasted this long

Except for Game 7 (and yeah, that's a big except) didn't Hartley own Scotty Bowman.

Any way, judging from the thread it looked as bad as it sounded on the radio.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Jones plays the right side in Portland except on the PP which is pretty common for rightys. I'm not saying Jones couldn't play the right side, he could. Sacco just wouldn't play him there. If we had a different coach I think that you could have any of EJ, Jones, Barrie, or Elliott adapt to the left side.

Well Jones looked good on the left side all the way through the WJC, so I'd imagine he could play either side then.

 

[Nalens Oga]

That said, our transition game is terrible and it seems all you need to do against us is defend five men low and counter attack when Avs make mistakes. Have a little bit of traffic in the slot and Avs will start to lose players in coverage and you'll get great shooting opportunities.

The best indication that Sacco is a bad coach is not even in his weird lineup choices, other coaches do that too. It's the fact that our transition game is so bad after 4 yrs. At least they can move the puck up on the PP now but sometimes it is laughably bad how this team can't get the puck out of the zone and the dmen look like deer in headlights with the puck being a hot potatoe.

 

[bohlmeister]

It'll be a shame if Joe Sacco is the fall guy.

He's no doubt assistant coaching material and not a good fit, but this team has had 100% roster turnover the past four seasons. Between management and the guys behind the bench, a winning product hasn't been put on the ice.

There needs to be changes from top-to-bottom.

I agree, but there won't be any other changes. People hoping Lacroix will step down or get fired are wishing for unicorns. It isn't happening.

Sherman has put together one of the worst defense cores when healthy I remember seeing. But I don't believe that he is the actual person making the personnel decisions. Lke I have said before, they just cleaned house 4 years ago, I don't think they are going to do it again.

 

[bohlmeister]

The best indication that Sacco is a bad coach is not even in his weird lineup choices, other coaches do that too. It's the fact that our transition game is so bad after 4 yrs. At least they can move the puck up on the PP now but sometimes it is laughably bad how this team can't get the puck out of the zone and the dmen look like deer in headlights with the puck being a hot potatoe.

That isn't his fault though. Look at that blue line. Barrie not being in the lineup is his fault, but almost everyone else on that d is incapable of making a 30 foot pass.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Except for Game 7 (and yeah, that's a big except) didn't Hartley own Scotty Bowman.

Any way, judging from the thread it looked as bad as it sounded on the radio.

don't think we ever beat the wings in a game 7. Game 5 and game 6 we have beat wings

 

[Kershaw]

Sacco + Mitchell for Torts + 3rd?

 

[boz]

Sherman has to own constructing what is the worst defense in the league. The Zanon signing is one of the worst in team history, especially given the coach we have and his preference to play that kind of players.

Got to give Sherman some slack here.. Zanon was only a plan b scramble signing after the Carkner debacle

 

[PAZ]

Carkner really wouldn't be any better...

 

[Nalens Oga]

That isn't his fault though. Look at that blue line. Barrie not being in the lineup is his fault, but almost everyone else on that d is incapable of making a 30 foot pass.

You don't mneed long passes to clear the zone and other coaches with a worst defense have been able to do it.

These are the Harrold Ballard years...

 

[boz]

Carkner really wouldn't be any better...

guess i should used

 

[squirrelbait]

I want Sacco gone as much as the next guy and would love it if its as soon as tonight he's fired.

But you're using Coaching as an excuse way too much. Colorado made the playoffs under sacco once. Foote and Tucker held the team acocuntable.

The players play the game. Yes the other team has players who played their whole lives. But these things:

- bad line changes

-shooting it into the opposition in blocked areas where its clearly blocked before shooting.

-making low percentage plays

- turnovers

Does Sacco tell Shane O'rrBrien to play like he's Drew Doughty? Does Sacco tell Jones to be absolutely useless on the ice? Does Sacco tell Stastny to only show up in half the games played in a season? I could go on and on.

If Sacco does indeed tell his players to do those things, then yes, coaching is the main problem. And oh yeah forgot about Barry Trotz, the coach who's never taken his team to a western final. The coach who benches Radulov for two games who lead his team in scoring against Detroit in the first round. Yes, that coach.

All of those things you listed are things you need to fix in practice during the fine tuning stages. If teams show little to no progress in getting better in those areas then it's a problem with how they practice. Coach runs the practice and is directly responsible for these things.

 

[Nihiliste]

You don't mneed long passes to clear the zone and other coaches with a worst defense have been able to do it.

These are the Harrold Ballard years...

I don't believe this worse defense nonsense. Is there another team that's been successful with Matt Hunwick and Ryan O'byrne quality dmen being used as their #1/#2?

When we lined them up out against Keith and Seabrook I was pretty depressed.


Sacco is a bad coach but we're a bad team. We're playing drunk Jones and dead weights like Palushaj/Hejduk/Olver/Bordelau in a rotation every game. We have some combination of 4 bottom pairing (and in some cases worse) dmen out there on any given night. One of our main scoring contributors is a guy who'd be better suited to a 4th line C role.

I don't see all that much potential in this roster the way its currently built, Sacco or Bowman.

 

[cgf]

That isn't his fault though. Look at that blue line. Barrie not being in the lineup is his fault, but almost everyone else on that d is incapable of making a 30 foot pass.

EJ, Hejda, Wilson before the injury when he was playing well, SOB this year, and Barrie gives us 5 guys who can, it's not entirely Sherman's fault that sacco has been so dedicated to giving the 3 worst guys of the bunch (ROB, Hunwicles and Zanon) more ice time than they get in our nightmares.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

don't think we ever beat the wings in a game 7. Game 5 and game 6 we have beat wings

thats what I mean.

 

[the_fan]

Seriously, i don't know why people here still complain after every loss. What good would winning this game then losing another 3 or 4 in a row do?

Just let this team lose all the remaining games, draft #1 overall and that most likely will get Sacco fired too, unless they are planning to have another losing season next year.

 

[ghostofweezman]

Bottom line...Staz is good when Landy is on his line

ROR is good when Landy is on his line...

Duchene is good without Landy on his line...

Trade one of the first two.

We dont have the wingers for 3 scoring lines. ROR or Staz will be overpayed because there arent enough good wingers for both.

That's where it gets interesting. O'Money held out for the money. Stastny chose not to look a gift-horse in the mouth. Between the two, O'Money will deserve the criticism. He won't get it from the DP writers though. Dater is such an O'Money fanboy that he won't dare criticize him. Chambers is also clearly sided with any player over a team. It will be fun to skewer Dater for his hypocracy once he can't use Stastny as his whipping boy under the pretense of "highest paid player". Soon, his boy will be the highest paid player. The excuses will roll.

Bottom line though, one of the two players needs to go and it will be Stastny. This team needs a top 4 dman for him. The Defense has been atrocious for years now. They need to fix it.

 

[bohlmeister]

Seriously, i don't know why people here still complain after every loss. What good would winning this game then losing another 3 or 4 in a row do?

Just let this team lose all the remaining games, draft #1 overall and that most likely will get Sacco fired too, unless they are planning to have another losing season next year.

I don't want this team to be built on guys that quit when things don't go there way. I would much rather they have some good feeling coming into next season then play like **** for the next month. This team isn't this bad, and I don't want it to become the norm. People are kidding themselves if they think they can tank for the remainder of this season, then turn it on and become a playoff team next season. You can't do it overnight.

 

[the_fan]

I don't want this team to be built on guys that quit when things don't go there way. I would much rather they have some good feeling coming into next season then play like **** for the next month. This team isn't this bad, and I don't want it to become the norm. People are kidding themselves if they think they can tank for the remainder of this season, then turn it on and become a playoff team next season. You can't do it overnight.

I didn't say they should quit. Let them try and lose, let Sacco keep making stupid coaching decisions which will make him even more vulnerable at the season end and hopefully he wont be behind the bench next year.

If this team somehow puts together a good run at the end of the season only to come up short and miss the playoffs again, Sacco is gonna look good again and he wont go anywhere.

This is what i want. Play hard, don't quit, but lose games, draft Jones, fire Sacco. All this will benefit this team more next year. We know they aren't making the playoffs this year no matter what.

 

[The Kingslayer]

thats what I mean.

Yah Hartley could beat bowman but never Hitch lol. Wish we had a real coach again.

 

[AslanRH]

I know everyone here loves and values high draft picks, but I'd have no issue if the Avs traded it away for a known commodity. Of course I expect value in return, but Sherman has shown a good penchant for that.

I'd much rather find a partner who is ready to play along side EJ before this next season starts. I think a couple shrewd acquisitions of winger(s) and that Dman will make this team much better and ready to seriously contend for a playoff run.


(by now I think its a given Sacco will be gone)

 

[bohlmeister]

I didn't say they should quit. Let them try and lose, let Sacco keep making stupid coaching decisions which will make him even more vulnerable at the season end and hopefully he wont be behind the bench next year.

If this team somehow puts together a good run at the end of the season only to come up short and miss the playoffs again, Sacco is gonna look good again and he wont go anywhere.

This is what i want. Play hard, don't quit, but lose games, draft Jones, fire Sacco. All this will benefit this team more next year. We know they aren't making the playoffs this year no matter what.

But that is not good for the mentality in the locker room. It may be great if they are robots and can come into next season like nothing happened, but I think it affects these guys more than you think.

 

[JoemAvs]

I know everyone here loves and values high draft picks, but I'd have no issue if the Avs traded it away for a known commodity. Of course I expect value in return, but Sherman has shown a good penchant for that.

I'd much rather find a partner who is ready to play along side EJ before this next season starts. I think a couple shrewd acquisitions of winger(s) and that Dman will make this team much better and ready to seriously contend for a playoff run.


(by now I think its a given Sacco will be gone)

Highly depends where we end up.
If we somehow go on a crazy run and finish with the 11th or 12th pick (ugh), I agree. Sure. Trade it + something else for a partner for EJ.

If we get a Top10 pick, no way. Never. Next.

 

[AslanRH]

Highly depends where we end up.
If we somehow go on a crazy run and finish with the 11th or 12th pick (ugh), I agree. Sure. Trade it + something else for a partner for EJ.

If we get a Top10 pick, no way. Never. Next.

Can I ask your reasoning? I look at Edmonton and think if they would have flipped even one of those picks for a fair value return they would be a far better team today.

But admittedly, I see the Avs' roster being 2-3 NHL ready players from being a consistent playoff team for the next 6-10 years assuming the core stays intact. The Dman we need most is the hardest to obtain, and outside of Jones i don't see one in the draft that will be ready before 2014-2015.

 

[The Shermanator]

What are you guys still talking about in this thread?