Post-Game Talk: wild @ avs 1 pm mdt | not winning for mckinning

[avsfan89]

If you actually believe any of this you clearly don't understand the purpose of a coach.

I believe certain players of the Avs are under performing immensely, yes. I believe that. I didn't know a coach has to play the game for them.

I want sacco gone. Don't get me wrong. And I hope I get to eat crow that if he's gone:

- Stastny becomes good offensively again
- Jones performs to a 20 goal scorer
- McGinn stops hitting posts
- O'Brien stops being O'Brien.

 

[5280]

I doubt too many Avs fans will defend Sacco, but do you fire him now and put an interim replacement like Quinn or Army?

What if the team performs a bit better? Then you're in the position of sort of having to keep them.

Unless they hire Ruff or Roy, I'd rather just wait till the off season.

Fire him now, get it over with.

 

[Frenchy]

I doubt too many Avs fans will defend Sacco, but do you fire him now and put an interim replacement like Quinn or Army?

What if the team performs a bit better? Then you're in the position of sort of having to keep them.

Unless they hire Ruff or Roy, I'd rather just wait till the off season.

Everybody wants him gone , but not right now is not a good idea . The season is a waste anyway , having another coach will just give us a push in the standing , with the only result that we'll lose good draft positions ... and at the end the push wont probably be enough to make the playoff . There's only a few games left in the season , it's not easy but we have to wait till this summer b4 making a coaching change .

 

[CobraAcesS]

I doubt too many Avs fans will defend Sacco, but do you fire him now and put an interim replacement like Quinn or Army?

What if the team performs a bit better? Then you're in the position of sort of having to keep them.

Unless they hire Ruff or Roy, I'd rather just wait till the off season.

We'll have more options in the off-season, Cooper, Ruff, Tippet (His contract is up I'm pretty sure. Will he stay with the team not knowing where they may-be moving to?)

I also agree as well, they are probably not going to make many changes except maybe trying to clear dead weight from our defensive core.

We might see Zannon, O'Byrne and (Big maybe) Jones shipped out, but I don't think Sacco will be fired until the off-season. The time for that was about 10 games ago (Last off-season for me), it's too late to help the team.

Get the highest pick possible, and make some free-agent moves in the off-season. As well as a coaching change... Then see what we have next year.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I always said way back when that coaching was the difference between us and the wings. Bowman outcoached us more often then not. Sacco sucks and never should have lasted this long

 

[Foppa2118]

Everybody wants him gone , but not right now is not a good idea . The season is a waste anyway , having another coach will just give us a push in the standing , with the only result that we'll lose good draft positions ... and at the end the push wont probably be enough to make the playoff . There's only a few games left in the season , it's not easy but we have to wait till this summer b4 making a coaching change .

Only about a month more of pain. Then we can hopefully look forward to a top pick, a coaching change, and maybe some trades to retool this D.

 

[S E P H]

Do you mean you think we will be picking 9th over all? Or just 9th worst, or (probably not this) 9th place in the west?

If Duchene & O'Reilly are our future at #1 & #2 (O'Reilly is the perfect #2 center IMO), Drouin has to be our pick with our two major needs being high end defense and wingers.

I personally also think Drouin is the better and more dynamic player, between him and Mackinnon. Mack will probably be a better goal scorer though.

Gawd a line of Drouin - Duchene - Parenteau would be amazing, they all can score and have very good play-making ability.

Do you think it's true that Mackinnon is that kind of one dimensional pure goal scorer? More apt to be selfish with the puck. From what I've seen of him and read in articles Mackinnon seems/sounds like Yakupov at center. Hardworking, reckless, and will always always shoot first, but not as creative.

Around 9th overall, 7 to 14 depending on how average we are. If we consistently keep playing like we did today (which I don't is possible) or sustain another injury bug we are going to crash hard to a top 3 pick. I still think MacKinnon would fit our team better, but I would L O V E Drouin as well, a few years away from the NHL tough.

 

[Frenchy]

Only about a month more of pain. Then we can hopefully look forward to a top pick, a coaching change, and maybe some trades to retool this D.

yep , that's what i'm holding on too . Making a coaching change right now would probably be one of the biggest mistake of this franchise . it sucks , but we dont have other choice but to wait.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Around 9th overall, 7 to 14 depending on how average we are. If we consistently keep playing like we did today (which I don't is possible) or sustain another injury bug we are going to crash hard to a top 3 pick. I still think MacKinnon would fit our team better, but I would L O V E Drouin as well, a few years away from the NHL tough.

Ahh, ok (I don't see WAS staying in the bottom three, and I also don't see Tampa staying as low as they are.)

Do you think Mackinnon will step right in? There are some guys with the size/maturity to do it, in Jones, Mack, Barkov, but yeah I would figure like Huberdeau did, Drouin needs another year to mature.

The only thing that sucks about that is that Drouin's skill level is far and away wasted in the minors. Hes not going to learn much down there at this point.

 

[S E P H]

I doubt too many Avs fans will defend Sacco, but do you fire him now and put an interim replacement like Quinn or Army?

What if the team performs a bit better? Then you're in the position of sort of having to keep them.

Unless they hire Ruff or Roy, I'd rather just wait till the off season.

Freudian explains why interim coaches is a stupid idea in the fire Sacco thread.

 

[Appleanche]

We'll have more options in the off-season, Cooper, Ruff, Tippet (His contract is up I'm pretty sure. Will he stay with the team not knowing where they may-be moving to?)

I also agree as well, they are probably not going to make many changes except maybe trying to clear dead weight from our defensive core.

We might see Zannon, O'Byrne and (Big maybe) Jones shipped out, but I don't think Sacco will be fired until the off-season. The time for that was about 10 games ago (Last off-season for me), it's too late to help the team.

Get the highest pick possible, and make some free-agent moves in the off-season. As well as a coaching change... Then see what we have next year.

I'd much prefer Ruff vs Cooper (no experience, like the last few coaches besides Q) Tippet is up for debate, I doubt he'll move.

If the Avs do go after Ruff, I don't see why not now..

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'd much prefer Ruff vs Cooper (no experience, like the last few coaches besides Q) Tippet is up for debate, I doubt he'll move.

If the Avs do go after Ruff, I don't see why not now..

Only way I would do it is like the last 5 games of the year, in order to let him get a chance to evaluate the team, and for players to start to get an idea of the system coming in to play.

Cooper & Roy are both really interesting though, wasn't Byalsma a brand new coach when he took over? Cooper is just at the top of the class when it comes to coaches breaking into the NHL.
.
I'd hate to pass him over and then watch him break into the NHL.

Tippet is my dream scenario honestly...

 

[S E P H]

Ahh, ok (I don't see WAS staying in the bottom three, and I also don't see Tampa staying as low as they are.)

Do you think Mackinnon will step right in? There are some guys with the size/maturity to do it, in Jones, Mack, Barkov, but yeah I would figure like Huberdeau did, Drouin needs another year to mature.

The only thing that sucks about that is that Drouin's skill level is far and away wasted in the minors. Hes not going to learn much down there at this point.

Oh yeah MacKinnon, Jones, and Barkov will definitely be making the NHL next season. A few others could be surprises like Zadorov, Hartman, Rychel, de la Rose, and maybe Lazar for 9 game tryouts.

 

[detrude]

Around 9th overall, 7 to 14 depending on how average we are. If we consistently keep playing like we did today (which I don't is possible) or sustain another injury bug we are going to crash hard to a top 3 pick. I still think MacKinnon would fit our team better, but I would L O V E Drouin as well, a few years away from the NHL tough.

Crash hard? Right now we're picking 4th overall, and we're one point up on 28th/29th place Tampa and Washington. O'Reilly and EJ haven't changed the fate of this team, 2-5-1 since O'Reilly signed. I think it's more likely Tampa and/or Washington get their **** together than the Avs going on any kind of run.

 

[S E P H]

Crash hard? Right now we're picking 4th overall, and we're one point up on 28th/29th place Tampa and Washington. O'Reilly and EJ haven't changed the fate of this team, 2-5-1 since O'Reilly signed. I think it's more likely Tampa and/or Washington get their **** together than the Avs going on any kind of run.

Could be, but I think Avs are a much better team than what they're currently showing, just starting the game in the first 15 mins is whats killing us and we won't start every game like we did these last two

 

[henchman21]

If the Avs did pick Drouin, he would play right away. It might not be the best decision for his future, but that is what would probably happen. At this point the Avs would need a top 2 pick to have a chance at Drouin. He will go before Mac, and may go ahead of Jones depending on the team picking 1st.

If Jones is available when we pick he is the right choice. Sacco won't do it, but I'm sure another coach could try our Barrie on the left if we do end up having a logjam on the right side.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Oh yeah MacKinnon, Jones, and Barkov will definitely be making the NHL next season. A few others could be surprises like Zadorov, Hartman, Rychel, de la Rose, and maybe Lazar for 9 game tryouts.

Just curious... If we are say #5-6 who do you pick with Jones, Mack, Drouin, and Barkov off the board?

Hes not ranked that high but Mantha looks like that big first line winger we need.

It'd be #1 Monahan #2 Nichushkin #3 Mantha at fifth over all for me, based on our needs. Some of the players are so close together in skill level. Shinkaruk would be next because of his size, I'd rather not pick a defender in the top 10 if we don't get Jones.

If the Avs did pick Drouin, he would play right away. It might not be the best decision for his future, but that is what would probably happen. At this point the Avs would need a top 2 pick to have a chance at Drouin. He will go before Mac, and may go ahead of Jones depending on the team picking 1st.

If Jones is available when we pick he is the right choice. Sacco won't do it, but I'm sure another coach could try our Barrie on the left if we do end up having a logjam on the right side.

It's been discussed a bit... It seems like Jones plays the left side, as he did in the WJC, and I guess in Portland as well. (Although I haven't watched him in Portland personally.)

 

[detrude]

Could be, but I think Avs are a much better team than what they're currently showing, just starting the game in the first 15 mins is whats killing us and we won't start every game like we did these last two

I agree with you in principle, I think this team is capable of being much better than they've been. The results and on ice performance say otherwise, though. 24 points in 27 games is bad any way you look at it. On the whole, games like the last three are far more common than the games against Chicago and SJ. I just can't see this team turning things around and playing consistently at a level they haven't reached in three years with Sacco.

 

[Hesher]

I didn't even realize there was a game on today...

The majority of the players didn't either

 

[shadow1]

It'll be a shame if Joe Sacco is the fall guy.

He's no doubt assistant coaching material and not a good fit, but this team has had 100% roster turnover the past four seasons. Between management and the guys behind the bench, a winning product hasn't been put on the ice.

There needs to be changes from top-to-bottom.

 

[Foppa2118]

Love watching Dutchy's post game interviews, win or lose. He's the only guy on the team that actually analyzes things and gives honest answers rather than the same generic non answers every else int he organization gives.

I think he's got a better finger on the pulse of the team than Sacco for sure. He said talent and work ethic aren't the problem, it's a focusing problem, and that guys are too scared to make mistakes so they don't make confident fast decisions.

Put Duchene behind the bench for christs sake. Someone who doesn't think the answer to this teams problems is just to keep it simple, dump it in, and take shots on net every time they're having problems.

 

[Pokecheque]

It'll be a shame if Joe Sacco is the fall guy.

He's no doubt assistant coaching material and not a good fit, but this team has had 100% roster turnover the past four seasons. Between management and the guys behind the bench, a winning product hasn't been put on the ice.

There needs to be changes from top-to-bottom.

Yeah, but even with a sub-par roster there is NO excuse to play this poorly against divisional opponents in the worst division in hockey. Enough is enough, the fact that Sacco hasn't had a prime-time roster during his tenure here should not give him a perpetual pass like the one Ron Wilson kept getting in Toronto. There comes a time when a coach has worn out his welcome and has run out of ideas. Time has run out for Sacco a while ago.

But I agree...Sacco should not be the only change.

 

[Freudian]

There is no kind of coaching that can make a team a winning one with the kind of goaltending Giguere provided today. It was a disappointing and deflating performance from him.

That said, our transition game is terrible and it seems all you need to do against us is defend five men low and counter attack when Avs make mistakes. Have a little bit of traffic in the slot and Avs will start to lose players in coverage and you'll get great shooting opportunities.

I'm not going to pretend that Barrie in the AHL is the difference between Avs being a good team or not, but it sends terrible signals. It sends the signal that you don't earn a spot based on merit. Barrie has at worst been our third best defender this year. Everyone in that locker room knows he deserves to play over Zanon/O'Byrne/Hunwick etc. It also makes the lack of transition play from Avs somewhat of a self-inflicted wound. We have a guy that's really good in transition and our coach can't fit him on the team because he is supposedly a risk (despite allowing fewer shots against/60 minutes than many of the meatbags playing). And, as a final screw you to the fans, Barrie was one of the bright spots on the team this year. One of the reasons to watch Avs play. Instead, we get this. Ugh.

Sherman has to own constructing what is the worst defense in the league. The Zanon signing is one of the worst in team history, especially given the coach we have and his preference to play that kind of players.

 

[5280]

There is no kind of coaching that can make a team a winning one with the kind of goaltending Giguere provided today. It was a disappointing and deflating performance from him.

That said, our transition game is terrible and it seems all you need to do against us is defend five men low and counter attack when Avs make mistakes. Have a little bit of traffic in the slot and Avs will start to lose players in coverage and you'll get great shooting opportunities.

I'm not going to pretend that Barrie in the AHL is the difference between Avs being a good team or not, but it sends terrible signals. It sends the signal that you don't earn a spot based on merit. Barrie has at worst been our third best defender this year. Everyone in that locker room knows he deserves to play over Zanon/O'Byrne/Hunwick etc. It also makes the lack of transition play from Avs somewhat of a self-inflicted wound. We have a guy that's really good in transition and our coach can't fit him on the team because he is supposedly a risk (despite allowing fewer shots against/60 minutes than many of the meatbags playing). And, as a final screw you to the fans, Barrie was one of the bright spots on the team this year. One of the reasons to watch Avs play. Instead, we get this. Ugh.

Sherman has to own constructing what is the worst defense in the league. The Zanon signing is one of the worst in team history, especially given the coach we have and his preference to play that kind of players.

Yeah, Jiggy was bunk. Nice points.

 

[henchman21]

Just curious... If we are say #5-6 who do you pick with Jones, Mack, Drouin, and Barkov off the board?

Hes not ranked that high but Mantha looks like that big first line winger we need.

It'd be #1 Monahan #2 Nichushkin #3 Mantha at fifth over all for me, based on our needs. Some of the players are so close together in skill level. Shinkaruk would be next because of his size, I'd rather not pick a defender in the top 10 if we don't get Jones.



It's been discussed a bit... It seems like Jones plays the left side, as he did in the WJC, and I guess in Portland as well. (Although I haven't watched him in Portland personally.)

Jones plays the right side in Portland except on the PP which is pretty common for rightys. I'm not saying Jones couldn't play the right side, he could. Sacco just wouldn't play him there. If we had a different coach I think that you could have any of EJ, Jones, Barrie, or Elliott adapt to the left side.