News Article: Why the failure? Top down org.

[BigFuzzyDice]

That was a cute story, mostly founded in bullshit. Especially that fair tale part about Gretzky that this town clings to. 99s exit was spearheaded by Gretzky, bruce and an nhl front office eager to grow the game south o 49.

The oilers failure stems directly from selling their soul and pride to build thru the draft. bolting together the panzer which won the hall draft gutted this team of character and professionalism from which it has not recovered

 

[The Panther]

That was a cute story, mostly founded in bullshit. Especially that fair tale part about Gretzky that this town clings to. 99s exit was spearheaded by Gretzky, bruce and an nhl front office eager to grow the game south o 49.

Gretzky himself obviously had a hand in his own 'trade', but the way it happened (which is what really hurt), and the fact that it happened as soon as it did had everything to do with Pocklington's mismanagement of the situation (he damaged Gretzky's pride and was wheeling & dealing behind Wayne's back before Gretzky made any move to leave at all -- when Gretzky found this out, he was pissed, understandably, and tried to get some control back of the situation. A blinking game of pride ensued between Gretzky and Pocklington, which escalated out of control quickly, resulting in a sudden trade).

The NHL front office had absolutely nothing to do with the Gretzky trade.

The oilers failure stems directly from selling their soul and pride to build thru the draft. bolting together the panzer which won the hall draft gutted this team of character and professionalism from which it has not recovered

You're implying that the organization started going south in 2009. It was actually about 20 years before that.

 

[rboomercat90]

Another factor is the mid 90’s Canadian dollar crisis put Canadian teams at a huge disadvantage prior to the salary cap.

Add to this was that salaries started to explode league wide in the first few seasons after Gretzky was traded to the Kings. Prior to Bettman coming on board players salaries were not publicly disclosed. That kept salaries down and made it easier for Canadian teams to compete.

 

[rboomercat90]

I will also add your points is that Mtl can’t even hire a non francophone GM or head coach so that already lessens the potential prospect pool in those areas no wonder why previously fired Hab coaches can have a second tenure with them!

Prior to the cap in 2006, there were only two Canadian teams financially able to compete in Toronto and Montreal. Toronto handicapped themselves with poor management decisions and an overbearing interfering media and Montreal limited their chances by insisting on hiring front office staff from a shallow pool of French Canadians. There’s a lot of reasons a Canadian team hasn’t won since 93. Not all are Bettman’s fault.

 

[The Panther]

...Montreal limited their chances by insisting on hiring front office staff from a shallow pool of French Canadians.

Actually, Montreal was North America's most dominant franchise during the 1944 - 1979 period when they consistently had a high proportion of French-Canadian players. Their last 7 Cup championships were all with French-speaking coaches.

Since they've left behind their French legacy, they've largely sucked.

 

[rboomercat90]

Gretzky himself obviously had a hand in his own 'trade', but the way it happened (which is what really hurt), and the fact that it happened as soon as it did had everything to do with Pocklington's mismanagement of the situation (he damaged Gretzky's pride and was wheeling & dealing behind Wayne's back before Gretzky made any move to leave at all -- when Gretzky found this out, he was pissed, understandably, and tried to get some control back of the situation. A blinking game of pride ensued between Gretzky and Pocklington, which escalated out of control quickly, resulting in a sudden trade).

The NHL front office had absolutely nothing to do with the Gretzky trade.
You're implying that the organization started going south in 2009. It was actually about 20 years before that.

The 1987 Canada Cup was the end of the Oilers. Pocklington was under paying them and that was when they found out. It took a few years before all the talent was cycled out but that’s where it started. After that we were just a small market team trying to compete in a league full of giants.

 

[rboomercat90]

Actually, Montreal was North America's most dominant franchise during the 1944 - 1979 period when they consistently had a high proportion of French-Canadian players. Their last 7 Cup championships were all with French-speaking coaches.

Since they've left behind their French legacy, they've largely sucked.

During that time they had exclusive rights to French players. Many of the best players of that era were from Quebec. That’s why they were dominant. They couldn’t operate that way any more even if they wanted to and it wouldn’t help them even if they could. That pool isn’t very deep anymore either. My point from my earlier post was their insistence on GM’s and coaches needing to be French, still to this day, hasn’t helped their chances of winning either.

 

[The Panther]

During that time they had exclusive rights to French players.

They didn't. That's a popular myth.

Many of the best players of that era were from Quebec. That’s why they were dominant. They couldn’t operate that way any more even if they wanted to and it wouldn’t help them even if they could. That pool isn’t very deep anymore either. My point from my earlier post was their insistence on GM’s and coaches needing to be French, still to this day, hasn’t helped their chances of winning either.

The last 7 Cups I refer to were all in the post-expansion era.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They didn't. That's a popular myth.
The last 7 Cups I refer to were all in the post-expansion era.

While this reply is warranted, and Montreal did not have exclusive rights to all Quebec players, the Habs had rights to many of the better clubs in Quebec and even in other parts of the country are were able to retain rights to a lot of players that way.

 

[Zenos]

Do people honestly believe this anti-Canadian conspiracy bullshit?

I read through the first few posts and had a nice chuckle, thinking "yeah , good joke"... But people seem to be posting this with a straight face.

But just to get the story straight:

Do you people actually think that the league "jobbed" Canadian teams in recent decades? That the game-7s in 2011, 2006, and 2004 were fixed? Or what's the actual mechanism that you're proposing that's been keeping the Canadian clubs down?

 

[TB12]

We’ve kind of gone off the topic of why the Oilers are bad to why no Canadian teams have won the cup.

I’ve said it before here, the Oilers are the living embodiment of the Peter Principle. I know a lot of you here like MacT as a coach but I firmly do not. Lack of systems knowledge, inability to adjust mid-game, showing up 5 minutes before practice unprepared with no practice plan, etc. are just some of the stories I’ve heard from guys who worked with him. Yes, he got the team to buy in in 2006 and that was a fun run, but I do not think he’s a good coach in the modern era.

So what does the org do? Promote a bad/average coach to the GM position. Kevin Lowe? Continually bumped up and promoted. To me, that is the main reason for the years in the wilderness, putting the wrong people in positions they are not qualified for.

 

[Aceboogie]

The Oilers have one of the strongest believes in the old boys club mentality. Whenever they fire a member of the OBC, they go right back to the well and try to find the other members who have been recently fired.

They dont seem to understand that those guys got fired because they werent good at their job.

The Oilers make no effort to be thought leaders, creative thinkers or gain any competitive advantage in the least way. Katz wants to go with the status quo and hiring guys like Nicholson (who will hire guys like Chiarelli and Holland) will do that.

I do not think that the org is currently terribly run. However I do think we are just middle of the pack and will never get any competitive advantages with the brain trust and mentality our management has. Well go on targeting the same type of players, making some meh signings and doing what the other middle of the pack teams do

 

[BudBundy]

Gretzky himself obviously had a hand in his own 'trade', but the way it happened (which is what really hurt), and the fact that it happened as soon as it did had everything to do with Pocklington's mismanagement of the situation (he damaged Gretzky's pride and was wheeling & dealing behind Wayne's back before Gretzky made any move to leave at all -- when Gretzky found this out, he was pissed, understandably, and tried to get some control back of the situation. A blinking game of pride ensued between Gretzky and Pocklington, which escalated out of control quickly, resulting in a sudden trade).

The NHL front office had absolutely nothing to do with the Gretzky trade.
You're implying that the organization started going south in 2009. It was actually about 20 years before that.

Financially things came apart at the seams starting around 1987 and got progressively worse until the salary cap era. From a management side it’s all over the place. Hanging on to Barrie Fraser for a decade too long was the canary in the coal mine. I believe the Oilers truly hit the skids in 2004. When you kill the Road Runners farm team and try and “share” with the Habs, you’ve given up. Holland gives me some hope that class and competence has a fighting chance.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Do people honestly believe this anti-Canadian conspiracy bullshit?

I read through the first few posts and had a nice chuckle, thinking "yeah , good joke"... But people seem to be posting this with a straight face.

But just to get the story straight:

Do you people actually think that the league "jobbed" Canadian teams in recent decades? That the game-7s in 2011, 2006, and 2004 were fixed? Or what's the actual mechanism that you're proposing that's been keeping the Canadian clubs down?

What Gary Bettman does is enact a business model. The way to maximize profits within this business model is to secure a tremendous US television contract.

A way to secure this US television contract is to have American teams winning all the championships, or so Gary Bettman believes. He constructs additional American teams in non-traditional hockey markets, attempting to sell the game with the goal of increasing the market price for a tremendous US television contract.

The best way to have these new American teams, in non-traditional hockey markets, appear to be successful is fan support. Fan support can only be achieved in non-traditional hockey markets when the teams are winning hockey games and consistently competing for championships. The goal being increased value of the product via showcasing the most competitive teams. The way to ensure these American clubs have the most competitive teams is to hand out good hockey players, look to the Vegas Golden Knights for the latest example. If these teams stop winning in non-traditional hockey markets the fans will not attend, interest will diminish thus the illusion destroyed, reducing chances of a tremendous US television contract.

Bettman introduced an adaptation of the salary cap. This salary cap achieves promoting the non-traditional American hockey markets, and all the American hockey markets over traditional Canadian hockey markets. Cap space within an artificially capped system can effectively add more good players when needed. Meaning the system is gamed.

Thus the illusion of the NHL dichotomy of good management (American) vs bad management (Canadian).

All this means is the NHL exists within a contrived economic system which dictates the outcome of the product. The product which is sports entertainment which is a mimicry of hockey. Hockey is what Canadians love.

The game has been subverted. Gary Bettman is a complete charlatan in my opinion.

 

[BudBundy]

What Gary Bettman does is enact a business model. The way to maximize profits within this business model is to secure a tremendous US television contract.

A way to secure this US television contract is to have American teams winning all the championships, or so Gary Bettman believes. He constructs additional American teams in non-traditional hockey markets, attempting to sell the game with the goal of increasing the market price for a tremendous US television contract.

The best way to have these new American teams, in non-traditional hockey markets, appear to be successful is fan support. Fan support can only be achieved in non-traditional hockey markets when the teams are winning hockey games and consistently competing for championships. The goal being increased value of the product via showcasing the most competitive teams. The way to ensure these American clubs have the most competitive teams is to hand out good hockey players, look to the Vegas Golden Knights for the latest example. If these teams stop winning in non-traditional hockey markets the fans will not attend, interest will diminish thus the illusion destroyed, reducing chances of a tremendous US television contract.

Bettman introduced an adaptation of the salary cap. This salary cap achieves promoting the non-traditional American hockey markets, and all the American hockey markets over traditional Canadian hockey markets. Cap space within an artificially capped system can effectively add more good players when needed. Meaning the system is gamed.

Thus the illusion of the NHL dichotomy of good management (American) vs bad management (Canadian).

All this means is the NHL exists within a contrived economic system which dictates the outcome of the product. The product which is sports entertainment which is a mimicry of hockey. Hockey is what Canadians love.

The game has been subverted. Gary Bettman is a complete charlatan in my opinion.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Gary Bettman is the only reason we have an NHL club. Without his direct efforts, we would’ve witnessed the birth of the Houston Oilers, and that is recorded fact. The salary cap and revenue sharing helps small market US teams, but the fact is that at times when we have a $0.68 dollar and times aren’t good, we ARE a small market team. Maybe you are too young to recall when teams like St.Louis, LA, Colorado, NY, Detroit could simply outbid us. The current system is based on economic and therefore competitive parity. Some areas, such as Florida and Texas do have tax advantages, but those are relatively minor.
Levelling the playing field let’s Edmonton compete based on competence, drafting, developing, shrewd trading, and prudent contract offers. The cold hard facts are that successive management groups have been utter failures at these things. Bettman didn’t force us to draft Steve Kelly over Shane Doan. He didn’t force us to trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. He didn’t force us to trade Jeff Petry for a 2nd. He didn’t force us to sign Nikita Nikitin, and Milan Lucic. We do have some legit disadvantages, namely a harsh climate and a rough travel schedule, but those are a piffle compared to garbage management.

The Vegas Golden Knights won by excellent scouting, a brilliant expansion draft, shrewd trades, and installing an excellent system of management. Ironically, I can see them falling apart a bit in the next few years because they’ve done some short sighted deals and bad signings under a “win now” philosophy.

TL/DR - The league is not stacked against the Oilers and Canada in general.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Gary Bettman is the only reason we have an NHL club. Without his direct efforts, we would’ve witnessed the birth of the Houston Oilers, and that is recorded fact. The salary cap and revenue sharing helps small market US teams, but the fact is that at times when we have a $0.68 dollar and times aren’t good, we ARE a small market team. Maybe you are too young to recall when teams like St.Louis, LA, Colorado, NY, Detroit could simply outbid us. The current system is based on economic and therefore competitive parity. Some areas, such as Florida and Texas do have tax advantages, but those are relatively minor.
Levelling the playing field let’s Edmonton compete based on competence, drafting, developing, shrewd trading, and prudent contract offers. The cold hard facts are that successive management groups have been utter failures at these things. Bettman didn’t force us to draft Steve Kelly over Shane Doan. He didn’t force us to trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. He didn’t force us to trade Jeff Petry for a 2nd. He didn’t force us to sign Nikita Nikitin, and Milan Lucic. We do have some legit disadvantages, namely a harsh climate and a rough travel schedule, but those are a piffle compared to garbage management.

The Vegas Golden Knights won by excellent scouting, a brilliant expansion draft, shrewd trades, and installing an excellent system of management. Ironically, I can see them falling apart a bit in the next few years because they’ve done some short sighted deals and bad signings under a “win now” philosophy.

TL/DR - The league is not stacked against the Oilers and Canada in general.

I predicted someone would bring up this "Gary Bettman is the only reason we have an NHL club" fallacy a few posts back. Do you really believe a non-traditional American market's fan interest in the game can outcompete the Canadian's fan interest in hockey given a level playing field? If you do how could there be anything wrong with moving the Winnipeg Jet's original franchise to Arizona other than a negative sentimental reaction. True love of hockey in Canada ensures people will attend, up until a point. When Canadian fans stop attending and tune out the game something is seriously wrong.

South of the boarder even traditional mega markets like Chicago can't fill the building when the club has a few bad seasons. Because hockey isn't the primary or even secondary sport in those markets.

A controlled system of internalized media pushing narratives is a specialty recycled by Bettman and those sounding for him.

It's all about that tremendous US television contract. That pot of gold at the end of that rainbow which has never realized itself. Thus Bettman crapped all over the game of hockey for no reason at all. People defending Gary Bettman are like 10 year old's defending the latest social justice issue imposed on them through media and social indoctrination.

Player trades, all player movement and player drafting are all worked out behind closed doors. You nor I are privy to discussions between the team owners, team management and Gary Bettman.

 

[BudBundy]

I predicted someone would bring up this "Gary Bettman is the only reason we have an NHL club" fallacy a few posts back. Do you really believe a non-traditional American market's fan interest in the game can outcompete the Canadian's fan interest in hockey given a level playing field? If you do how could there be anything wrong with moving the Winnipeg Jet's original franchise to Arizona other than a negative sentimental reaction. True love of hockey in Canada ensures people will attend, up until a point. When Canadian fans stop attending and tune out the game something is seriously wrong.

South of the boarder even traditional mega markets like Chicago can't fill the building when the club has a few bad seasons. Because hockey isn't the primary or even secondary sport in those markets.

A controlled system of internalized media pushing narratives is a specialty recycled by Bettman and those sounding for him.

It's all about that tremendous US television contract. That pot of gold at the end of that rainbow which has never realized itself. Thus Bettman crapped all over the game of hockey for no reason at all. People defending Gary Bettman are like 10 year old's defending the latest social justice issue imposed on them through media and social indoctrination.

Player trades, all player movement and player drafting are all worked out behind closed doors. You nor I are privy to discussions between the team owners, team management and Gary Bettman.

So you are sticking to your guns here? Specifically, you believe Gary Bettman, NHL team owners, and managers are colluding to keep Canadian teams down? Please state for the record, in case I am confused.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

So you are sticking to your guns here? Specifically, you believe Gary Bettman, NHL team owners, and managers are colluding to keep Canadian teams down? Please state for the record, in case I am confused.

Tough to have a serious discussion with someone when everything is a conspiracy. You're best to just ignore it.

 

[Dorian2]

Did they get better yet?

 

[Asiaoil]

Yes the rot runs deep in this organization. Recent photo of the Vice-chairman of Oilers Entertainment Group in his office at Rogers Place

 

[Broberg Speed]

The bad GM, Ken Holland, gifted the good GM, Steve Yzerman, two second rounders, a 4th rounder and Sam Gagner for 11 games of Andreas Athanasiou, 2 games from Mike Green and Ryan Kuffner. Rationalize these transactions between the perpetual bungling Canadian organization and the adroit Detroit Red Wings. I know someone will.

The NHL, in all their wisdom, awarded a 3rd rounder to Calgary in a bewildering ruling from the NHL in the Milan Lucic for James Neal transaction. Can anyone justify this if not only to anger the fan base of the Edmonton Oilers and enhance pretensions from fans of the Calgary Flames. Believe it or not this has a lot of value in narrative building. It fires up passions and keeps the comedy cascading.

Horrible decisions or calculated floundering. What if it's both? I'm mad and I've had just about enough of this shit.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

The bad GM, Ken Holland, gifted the good GM, Steve Yzerman, two second rounders, a 4th rounder and Sam Gagner for 11 games of Andreas Athanasiou, 2 games from Mike Green and Ryan Kuffner. Rationalize these transactions between the perpetual bungling Canadian organization and the adroit Detroit Red Wings. I know someone will.

The NHL, in all their wisdom, awarded a 3rd rounder to Calgary in a bewildering ruling from the NHL in the Milan Lucic for James Neal transaction. Can anyone justify this if not only to anger the fan base of the Edmonton Oilers and enhance pretensions from fans of the Calgary Flames. Believe it or not this has a lot of value in narrative building. It fires up passions and keeps the comedy cascading.

Horrible decisions or calculated floundering. What if it's both? I'm mad and I've had just about enough of this shit.

Never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity.

 

[Dorian2]

Yes the rot runs deep in this organization. Recent photo of the Vice-chairman of Oilers Entertainment Group in his office at Rogers Place

And one of the Alternate Governors.

 

[Sugi21]

While this reply is warranted, and Montreal did not have exclusive rights to all Quebec players, the Habs had rights to many of the better clubs in Quebec and even in other parts of the country are were able to retain rights to a lot of players that way.

Didn’t Hab’s buy a whole minor league in Quebec just to get the rights for Beliveau? Think I heard that somewhere

 

[Brown Cat]

Thank you replacement. Was good read and I agree with all the hires the past decade or so. It's always dinosaurs, fossils, people who had no success anywhere but, for some reason, we think they will do it here. The funny thing is, those same fossils continue to fail elsewhere. The excuse that they should have been given time is asinine. We have decades of work to look at for most of these people. Save for Holland, all of them failed. Hell, even Holland Wings fans warned us was a false image. Got into a Detroit team that may be one of the best hockey has seen and failed to do much when they all disappeared. Didn't see the signs that the sustained playoff appearances were going to hurt massively and, rather than stocking for the future, he kept trading away picks and prospects to get kicked out in the first round. I was iffy on him when he was hired, didn't like him when he hired Tippet.

Just a word of advice to those who can't quit the team like I can. You don't HAVE to spend money to watch or listen to the games...>_> <_<