Drivesaitl
Finding Hyman
Long post,not for everybody. This thread will offer some glimpses on why the Oilers org has nurtured failure of its team on ice for decades.
Success corrupts. Many people do not survive incredible success without it altering them, who they are. The one thing success cannot teach is humility. We've seen indications for decades about how former Oilers players have come in here to new roles, or brought back, and what they have been like.
Top down orgs often contain toxicity. People can read up on it but boiled down people who feel they are great often make the worst managers. They are know it alls, they micromanage everything and often hold their employees in contempt. Like children to be read the riot act.
First Example. Wayne Gretzky trade by Pocklington. I don't even have to dig at what his persona was like. By agreed story Puck won Wayne Gretzky in a Backgammon game with Nelson Skalbania in 1978, Lose and Wayne was headed to the Jets. (some disputes to the story). 4 cups later and Puck still viewed Wayne as a commodity and sold him to the LA Kings for 15M in his pocket and not to help the team on ice. Puck simply viewed Wayne as his personal asset for trade. Puck had the audacity to speak of "fake Wayne Gretzky tears" and purported that Wayne had wanted out of town.
Another early example is Glenn Anderson. The Oilers brought him back in 1996 to "finish out the season" as amid season acquisition to help a young club "find out how to win" As if winning was some secret residing in somebodies brain. Anderson produced well enough, 4G6A 10pts 17GP, and on the ice helped a club that had some trouble with offense. But Andersons player input itself was viewed as toxic. The young players unpredictably disliked Anderson. Several made caustic mocking comments about his return. This was aided by Journalists in this city that hated Anderson and were quick to print stories on it. So that the Oilers, without explaining much about a change in direction sent Anderson quickly packing to STL. He had been here a month. Years later it had come out that it had become untenable for him to be here longer. Anderson didn't like some of the brats here and they didn't like him. He came off like a lecturing abusive father.
A next glimpse of avarice is angry Kevin Lowe requiring Mike Comrie to pay his way out of a contract, to pay back what the org felt was owed them through their view of substandard play. Comrie and his agent did not agree, the NHLPA took a poor view of this fairly unprecedented move by the Oilers and a trade for Corey Perry was nixed due to this. But the Oilers were angry with Comrie and wanted to embarrass him, It was more important to spank Mike Comrie who ironically was one of the best players,
Another is the fake tears thing again. The Oilers org mocking Ryan Smyth, Captain Canada, a heart and soul player, and dicking him for half a million and trading him instead of wanting to pay. The Oilers basically kicked Smyth in the chin on the way out. Again with mocking a player that was upset to leave.
The Oilers, despite themselves, managed to snag Chris Pronger post lockout in a plum deal and contract that had them going all the way to the cup final. The Oilers got Pronger because the new CBA required several clubs to pare down salary cap while the Oilers were one of the teams with huge Salary space. But the Oilers screwed this acquisition within one year as the Oilers were very hands on with Pronger and even telling him how to run his personal life. With the Owner head, Cal Nichols even publicly stating that Pronger needed to straighten out his wife (she didn't want to be here) and questioning "Who wears the boots in Prongers family"
It was so cringeworthy that it was easy to see why Pronger or his wife would not want to remain here.
Oilers locked out Sheldon Souray out of camp claiming he was too toxic to attend and a distraction. it was yet another new low point in the Oilers org. Sheldon had only second guessed the Oilers medical staff, and had obtained alternate prognosis. The Oilers hated Souray for that, bombed his reputation, destroyed it, and then later fired most o their medical staff because they must have realized Sourays concerns had merit.
FF and the Oilers org, in rare strokes of benevolence hire player coaches like Tom Renney and Ralph Krueger. But reports of philosophical differences are rife with both and the Oilers didn't see eye to eye with notions of treating players kindly, or having sensitivity, or valuing players first. Both are discarded, Ralph fired by Skype. Oilers fans, conditioned to despising players, coaches for years, welcomed such "wreck it Ralph" firing and were only too enthusiastic when it was announced that Dallas Eakins was being hired as the new Head coach because McT had felt "Dallas is just like me" We quickly determined what that was. Dallas was another know it all. Another guy who fairly despised his players and was tough love, hard on them. One offseason exchange I'll never forget is Eakins inviting Taylor Hall to his Leadville 500 marathon cycle race. The presumption being that Hall could use some offseason encouragement on seeing regimen and that a pro athlete would benefit from the coach showing him how to train. Taylor Hall replied "As if thats going to happen". Hall did not go.
First action when Eakins came in was to assess players and then plan a "Boot Camp" for the Oilers players in Jasper Alberta. The team actually obtained a military drill instructor, a survivalist, and had the team experience rigors of the wild apparently to "man them up". This occurring while other NHL clubs were all practicing their sport, hockey...A clown like Andrew Ference had been appointed captain and was the co ring leader in the Oilers boot camp of its players. It was cringeworthy, and I said so at the time, as I had with Cal Nichols, Comrie, Smyth, Souray, so many stories. This is an org basically hating on its players and employees and feeling they need to be whipped into shape. Taylor Hall was going to be boot camped one way or another and soon enough was booted out, Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Yakupov, so many others. Never good enough players for the Oilers ongoing braintrust that were 5 rings legends in their minds.
Eakins was of course a disaster hire, FF to the OIlers next disaster hire, Chiarelli. This guy too buying the bottom line that players are even found lacking, often have character issues, and so that the same guy that got rid of players like Seguin, Wheeler, and Phil Kessel because they were not Boston strong, was here to move out dead wood players here. From the word go I called out that Chiarelli was here to be a hitman manager. To get rid of more of the Oilers players that management disliked and had a poor view of. This of course occurred.
FF to now and the Oilers have Holland, similarly corrupted with success in Detroit running things. Towards Hollands end in Detroit he was failing miserably and contempt was well at hand. I don't like AA, but he was run ragged by players and coaches in that org and all calling him down. It was a toxic place for the player and he was publicly called out by players, captain, coaches. It was ugly. Of course the Oilers hire Holland to right the ship because he's a good ol guy that has won cups before and is here to right the ship. The Oilers hire Bob Nicholson who is famous for winning some hockey tournaments with Team Canada(I could make jokes about how hard that would be) Hitchcock, because of winning, and a guy like McLennan straight out of another disaster in SJ where McLellan was calling out his top players, along with Sharks management, and broke that club.
McLellan comes in here and tongue lashes a young Leon Draisaitl telling him how to play hockey and "To play not for himself, but for the team" I mean this being directed squarely at the best surprise player prospect the org had seen since the 80's. Fortunately for the Oilers, and Leon, his primary mentor is his father coach. Leon seem contained enough in his own confidence and play, that he does not botch his success listening or being upset about the orgs latest stupid advice.
Nothing in this thread is really surprising, and a lot of the recap is painful, and countless other stories exist. Suffice to say the Oilers braintrust, that had firm control of this org for decades, and that always believed they were better than its current crop of players, have been squeezing current players for the longest time always telling them to be better, they weren't good enough, while players on the other hand would have viewed disaster level player asset decisions. The worst people in the room here, anytime, are in management, and because those people figured they were 5 ring legends beyond reproach. I mean inside Connor McDavid is probably still groaning about landing here. I mean look at the player moves, the management, the turnstile of players and coaches and assets he's seen here.
Tippett is not much different. A guy that HS a player after he scored 2 goals. A guy that would watch his goalie surrender 6, 7, 8 goals, doesn't matter, and not pull him. Let him writhe in the wind. This same org continues to disrespect its players, have little or any allegiance to the vast majority of them and thinks nothing of dunking a Sam Gagner 2nd time around and replacing him with something as bad as Kyle Turris. Because outside of half a dozen players, if that, the lineup is disposable fodder. Something fed into the grinder until no hamburger comes out. Then you go backlot to slaughter some more.
No org in pro sports would have as much player or coach turnover from year to year as this one. The reason is that a collection of legends in their minds former players, and managers all have one thing in common. They know better than pro players, they are better than pro players.
Top down org management is all about thinking you are better than front line, of thinking you have all the answers, of Hitchcock saying he knew exactly how to fix Pulju, or Craig McT saying he knew how to fix Dustin Penner. or Cal Nichols telling Pronger what to do with his wife.
This is cretin level team management and an org that just keep making the same crony cretin hires. As fans you should probably suspect all of them. The good ones like Kreuger are shipped away as quickly as their positivity and consultive approach is noticed.
We get more of codgers in here. More Pat Quinns talking smack about players. Whoever the org feels will manage to treat the current crop rough. The sum ingredient being a bunch of blow hards running the org that think they know better. Running the org into the ground for decades with top to bottom forensic audits that never really happen, or that we detect that its the top of the org that is always being the problem.
Yeah, way too long, but its a story worth telling as fans continue to be confused about the why us losing theme so expressed in the thread last night.
My condolences to all of you, to Oilers fans, that know even some of the stories mentioned above. I know you all would have many more. Think about how this org treats its players through the decades. Does this obtain the best in all players. or do most players coming in here just see this as "get out of dodge, because this is where careers go to die"
Success corrupts. Many people do not survive incredible success without it altering them, who they are. The one thing success cannot teach is humility. We've seen indications for decades about how former Oilers players have come in here to new roles, or brought back, and what they have been like.
Top down orgs often contain toxicity. People can read up on it but boiled down people who feel they are great often make the worst managers. They are know it alls, they micromanage everything and often hold their employees in contempt. Like children to be read the riot act.
First Example. Wayne Gretzky trade by Pocklington. I don't even have to dig at what his persona was like. By agreed story Puck won Wayne Gretzky in a Backgammon game with Nelson Skalbania in 1978, Lose and Wayne was headed to the Jets. (some disputes to the story). 4 cups later and Puck still viewed Wayne as a commodity and sold him to the LA Kings for 15M in his pocket and not to help the team on ice. Puck simply viewed Wayne as his personal asset for trade. Puck had the audacity to speak of "fake Wayne Gretzky tears" and purported that Wayne had wanted out of town.
Another early example is Glenn Anderson. The Oilers brought him back in 1996 to "finish out the season" as amid season acquisition to help a young club "find out how to win" As if winning was some secret residing in somebodies brain. Anderson produced well enough, 4G6A 10pts 17GP, and on the ice helped a club that had some trouble with offense. But Andersons player input itself was viewed as toxic. The young players unpredictably disliked Anderson. Several made caustic mocking comments about his return. This was aided by Journalists in this city that hated Anderson and were quick to print stories on it. So that the Oilers, without explaining much about a change in direction sent Anderson quickly packing to STL. He had been here a month. Years later it had come out that it had become untenable for him to be here longer. Anderson didn't like some of the brats here and they didn't like him. He came off like a lecturing abusive father.
A next glimpse of avarice is angry Kevin Lowe requiring Mike Comrie to pay his way out of a contract, to pay back what the org felt was owed them through their view of substandard play. Comrie and his agent did not agree, the NHLPA took a poor view of this fairly unprecedented move by the Oilers and a trade for Corey Perry was nixed due to this. But the Oilers were angry with Comrie and wanted to embarrass him, It was more important to spank Mike Comrie who ironically was one of the best players,
Another is the fake tears thing again. The Oilers org mocking Ryan Smyth, Captain Canada, a heart and soul player, and dicking him for half a million and trading him instead of wanting to pay. The Oilers basically kicked Smyth in the chin on the way out. Again with mocking a player that was upset to leave.
The Oilers, despite themselves, managed to snag Chris Pronger post lockout in a plum deal and contract that had them going all the way to the cup final. The Oilers got Pronger because the new CBA required several clubs to pare down salary cap while the Oilers were one of the teams with huge Salary space. But the Oilers screwed this acquisition within one year as the Oilers were very hands on with Pronger and even telling him how to run his personal life. With the Owner head, Cal Nichols even publicly stating that Pronger needed to straighten out his wife (she didn't want to be here) and questioning "Who wears the boots in Prongers family"
It was so cringeworthy that it was easy to see why Pronger or his wife would not want to remain here.
Oilers locked out Sheldon Souray out of camp claiming he was too toxic to attend and a distraction. it was yet another new low point in the Oilers org. Sheldon had only second guessed the Oilers medical staff, and had obtained alternate prognosis. The Oilers hated Souray for that, bombed his reputation, destroyed it, and then later fired most o their medical staff because they must have realized Sourays concerns had merit.
FF and the Oilers org, in rare strokes of benevolence hire player coaches like Tom Renney and Ralph Krueger. But reports of philosophical differences are rife with both and the Oilers didn't see eye to eye with notions of treating players kindly, or having sensitivity, or valuing players first. Both are discarded, Ralph fired by Skype. Oilers fans, conditioned to despising players, coaches for years, welcomed such "wreck it Ralph" firing and were only too enthusiastic when it was announced that Dallas Eakins was being hired as the new Head coach because McT had felt "Dallas is just like me" We quickly determined what that was. Dallas was another know it all. Another guy who fairly despised his players and was tough love, hard on them. One offseason exchange I'll never forget is Eakins inviting Taylor Hall to his Leadville 500 marathon cycle race. The presumption being that Hall could use some offseason encouragement on seeing regimen and that a pro athlete would benefit from the coach showing him how to train. Taylor Hall replied "As if thats going to happen". Hall did not go.
First action when Eakins came in was to assess players and then plan a "Boot Camp" for the Oilers players in Jasper Alberta. The team actually obtained a military drill instructor, a survivalist, and had the team experience rigors of the wild apparently to "man them up". This occurring while other NHL clubs were all practicing their sport, hockey...A clown like Andrew Ference had been appointed captain and was the co ring leader in the Oilers boot camp of its players. It was cringeworthy, and I said so at the time, as I had with Cal Nichols, Comrie, Smyth, Souray, so many stories. This is an org basically hating on its players and employees and feeling they need to be whipped into shape. Taylor Hall was going to be boot camped one way or another and soon enough was booted out, Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Yakupov, so many others. Never good enough players for the Oilers ongoing braintrust that were 5 rings legends in their minds.
Eakins was of course a disaster hire, FF to the OIlers next disaster hire, Chiarelli. This guy too buying the bottom line that players are even found lacking, often have character issues, and so that the same guy that got rid of players like Seguin, Wheeler, and Phil Kessel because they were not Boston strong, was here to move out dead wood players here. From the word go I called out that Chiarelli was here to be a hitman manager. To get rid of more of the Oilers players that management disliked and had a poor view of. This of course occurred.
FF to now and the Oilers have Holland, similarly corrupted with success in Detroit running things. Towards Hollands end in Detroit he was failing miserably and contempt was well at hand. I don't like AA, but he was run ragged by players and coaches in that org and all calling him down. It was a toxic place for the player and he was publicly called out by players, captain, coaches. It was ugly. Of course the Oilers hire Holland to right the ship because he's a good ol guy that has won cups before and is here to right the ship. The Oilers hire Bob Nicholson who is famous for winning some hockey tournaments with Team Canada(I could make jokes about how hard that would be) Hitchcock, because of winning, and a guy like McLennan straight out of another disaster in SJ where McLellan was calling out his top players, along with Sharks management, and broke that club.
McLellan comes in here and tongue lashes a young Leon Draisaitl telling him how to play hockey and "To play not for himself, but for the team" I mean this being directed squarely at the best surprise player prospect the org had seen since the 80's. Fortunately for the Oilers, and Leon, his primary mentor is his father coach. Leon seem contained enough in his own confidence and play, that he does not botch his success listening or being upset about the orgs latest stupid advice.
Nothing in this thread is really surprising, and a lot of the recap is painful, and countless other stories exist. Suffice to say the Oilers braintrust, that had firm control of this org for decades, and that always believed they were better than its current crop of players, have been squeezing current players for the longest time always telling them to be better, they weren't good enough, while players on the other hand would have viewed disaster level player asset decisions. The worst people in the room here, anytime, are in management, and because those people figured they were 5 ring legends beyond reproach. I mean inside Connor McDavid is probably still groaning about landing here. I mean look at the player moves, the management, the turnstile of players and coaches and assets he's seen here.
Tippett is not much different. A guy that HS a player after he scored 2 goals. A guy that would watch his goalie surrender 6, 7, 8 goals, doesn't matter, and not pull him. Let him writhe in the wind. This same org continues to disrespect its players, have little or any allegiance to the vast majority of them and thinks nothing of dunking a Sam Gagner 2nd time around and replacing him with something as bad as Kyle Turris. Because outside of half a dozen players, if that, the lineup is disposable fodder. Something fed into the grinder until no hamburger comes out. Then you go backlot to slaughter some more.
No org in pro sports would have as much player or coach turnover from year to year as this one. The reason is that a collection of legends in their minds former players, and managers all have one thing in common. They know better than pro players, they are better than pro players.
Top down org management is all about thinking you are better than front line, of thinking you have all the answers, of Hitchcock saying he knew exactly how to fix Pulju, or Craig McT saying he knew how to fix Dustin Penner. or Cal Nichols telling Pronger what to do with his wife.
This is cretin level team management and an org that just keep making the same crony cretin hires. As fans you should probably suspect all of them. The good ones like Kreuger are shipped away as quickly as their positivity and consultive approach is noticed.
We get more of codgers in here. More Pat Quinns talking smack about players. Whoever the org feels will manage to treat the current crop rough. The sum ingredient being a bunch of blow hards running the org that think they know better. Running the org into the ground for decades with top to bottom forensic audits that never really happen, or that we detect that its the top of the org that is always being the problem.
Yeah, way too long, but its a story worth telling as fans continue to be confused about the why us losing theme so expressed in the thread last night.
My condolences to all of you, to Oilers fans, that know even some of the stories mentioned above. I know you all would have many more. Think about how this org treats its players through the decades. Does this obtain the best in all players. or do most players coming in here just see this as "get out of dodge, because this is where careers go to die"
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