Why isn't Sandin getting a better shot?

Ashdown2

Registered User
Aug 19, 2006
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hes been given the shaft because he can clear waivers... thats all you need to know ..

the good/bad news is that dermott is on the block so bascially sandin/lehtonon and bogo will platoon that third pair
 

Future

Registered User
Feb 8, 2011
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I’d like to move on from Dermott. Serviceable player. But I’d rather Lehtonen or Sandin play in that spot. Both bring a unique element.

Really do feel bad for Sandin. Marincin was favoured over him in the playoffs while playing terribly. Kid busted his ass over the summer, put on some mass, looked good in the scrimmages... yet hasn’t even been given one game. Now he’s in development limbo on the COVID taxi squad.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
22,186
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Toronto
I’d like to move on from Dermott. Serviceable player. But I’d rather Lehtonen or Sandin play in that spot. Both bring a unique element.

Really do feel bad for Sandin. Marincin was favoured over him in the playoffs while playing terribly. Kid busted his ass over the summer, put on some mass, looked good in the scrimmages... yet hasn’t even been given one game. Now he’s in development limbo on the COVID taxi squad.
I find it strange that he isn't playing as well. I thought maybe he regressed because even Babcock was praising him and that was more than a year ago.
 

The Best Leafs Ever

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
2,147
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Way too much depth in defense. I am for once happy with the current defense core and that we don't have to be afraid of taking chances in the offensive zone.
 

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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I’d like to move on from Dermott. Serviceable player. But I’d rather Lehtonen or Sandin play in that spot. Both bring a unique element.

Really do feel bad for Sandin. Marincin was favoured over him in the playoffs while playing terribly. Kid busted his ass over the summer, put on some mass, looked good in the scrimmages... yet hasn’t even been given one game. Now he’s in development limbo on the COVID taxi squad.
No secret that the Leafs development of Sandin has been absolutely putrid.
 

Future

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Feb 8, 2011
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No secret that the Leafs development of Sandin has been absolutely putrid.

Makes me sad. Our best defense prospect since Morgan Rielly and we’re just screwing around with him because Travis Dermott needs ice time.
 

BertCorbeau

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Jan 6, 2012
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No secret that the Leafs development of Sandin has been absolutely putrid.

Up until the playoffs last year I don’t think this was the case. Rightfully got in with the Marlies and succeeded to get a recall in his second pro season.

While looking solid in his debut over time he showed he needed more work in the AHL. Which is probably one reason why he was not put in the playoffs (not that I necessarily think it’s the right call).

really wouldn’t call it putrid development at all. The Leafs have depth, simple as that
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
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Makes me sad. Our best defense prospect since Morgan Rielly and we’re just screwing around with him because Travis Dermott needs ice time.

I dont think the leafs want to risk points by trying to develop him this early on in a shortened season, Travis is already a young legit NHL regular that is still developing himself. Sandin shoulda/woulda be a marlie this season
 

Future

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Feb 8, 2011
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I dont think the leafs want to risk points by trying to develop him this early on in a shortened season, Travis is already a young legit NHL regular that is still developing himself. Sandin shoulda/woulda be a marlie this season

Why are we going to pretend like he’s not ready? He looked good to me in his appearances last year. He’s had an entire offseason to improve and looked good in the preseason scrimmage. Stop pretending like he can’t play. Keefe had no problem playing Lehtonen who’s never played an NHL game.
 
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BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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Simcoe County
Why are we going to pretend like he’s not ready? He looked good to me in his appearances last year. He’s had an entire offseason to improve and looked good in the preseason scrimmage. Stop pretending like he can’t play. Keefe had no problem playing Lehtonen who’s never played an NHL game.

Sandin looked physically immature, not strong enough to keep up over the long haul. And his decision making still needs some refining. Not a big deal, but given the depth of the blue line he just hasn’t worked his way into the line up.

And it’s tough because the AHL hasn’t started yet so he can’t prove himself in anything but practice.

nothing to worry about though
 

mcleex

Fire Parros
Jul 3, 2009
11,519
5,742
A lot of guys are playing well on defense . Like who thought Bogosian and Holl would be this good
 

mix1home

Registered User
Sep 29, 2009
2,819
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Toronto,ON
How many defense men Tampa used in playoffs last year? Lets not trade young good and controllable players away. We might regret it. Everyone would have a chance to play this year if not for the injury then for rotation and giving guys rest.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Its a little surprising the Leafs didn't let Sandin play this year in the SEL for his development.

No saying Rasmus wanted to play back home in Sweden, but with the AHL not playing then sitting around is not in his best interest at present.
 

Ryan52

Registered User
Jun 20, 2009
762
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Brampton, Ontario
Its a little surprising the Leafs didn't let Sandin play this year in the SEL for his development.

No saying Rasmus wanted to play back home in Sweden, but with the AHL not playing then sitting around is not in his best interest at present.
Agreed, and it's not like he lost his spot in camp. We knew there wasn't going to be room from the hop
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
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Hamilton
I think this is the wrong frame of thought on where the team is. I agree that his optimal development has not been the determining factor in his opportunity, but this is also a team that is absolutely in win now mode. It's also a team that suddenly has too many good defensemen to get everyone in the lineup, Lehtonen and Dermott are rotating in because there's too many good ones (or at least potentially on Lehtonen's part) not because either hasn't been good.

I also don't think that Sandin is a guy that you want getting rust on his offensive game by playing sparse 3rd pairing minutes with bottom 6 players. He's also not a very good skater where the guys who are rotating into that 3rd pairing are.

I do hope that we do something positive with him like send to Sweden, but I wouldn't prioritize his development over getting every point available in a shortened season for a highly projected team that's underperformed to this point.
 

Garl

Registered User
Oct 7, 2006
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Romanov is getting red carpet treatment in Montreal, Sandin is in the doghouse in Toronto, sad to see
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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Buffalo
hes been given the shaft because he can clear waivers... thats all you need to know ..

It is obviously more complicated than that as Lehtonen can also clear waivers.

The reality is that it is Lehtonen who is blocking Sandin for playing any games, just as previous replacement-level free wallets blocked Dermott in the fall of 2017 (Borgman and Rosen) and Holl in the fall of 2018 (Oz).

Lehtonen signed with Toronto because he was guaranteed to play. The problem is that it was clear during the Blue and White game that under normal circumstances a player of Lethonen's current ability (without the promise of playing) would be told that he needs a year or two in the AHL. Because they have Dermott and very little cap space they could use that an excuse to play Dermott over Lehtonen, but that doesn't work as a reason to play Sandin over Lehtonen. Normally they just let those free-walllets play themselves out of the lineup over half a year or so, but Lehtonen has been so poor at 5v5 that it is going to be really hard to actually give him enough games to do so.

TOI in the third period during their first 3 NHL games:
Lehtonen: 4:43
Liljegren: 10:12
Sandin: 12:36

Keefe doesn't trust Lehtonen at all, and if you simply watch all his shifts back to back he looks rough and gets hemmed into his own zone all the time (and because of that his shifts are unusually long - despite the low TOI). I don't think this is an adjustment thing. I think he simply can't process the game at NHL speed.

If Lehtonen was not signed there probably would have been a real competition between Dermott, Sandin and perhaps Liljegren (assuming Bogo can play on the left side) for ice time this season.

the good/bad news is that dermott is on the block so bascially sandin/lehtonon and bogo will platoon that third pair

This has been mentioned a couple times, including by Friedman, although it seems to be based simply on the Leafs having too many Ds, and not on any actual trade rumours. I have my doubts. I can't see the Leafs' trading Dermott unless they know they have a replacement. I don't see any way that Lehtonen can be that replacement and they won't know if Sandin can do it until they play him, which they can't because of the Lehtonen situation.

No secret that the Leafs development of Sandin has been absolutely putrid.

Romanov is getting red carpet treatment in Montreal, Sandin is in the doghouse in Toronto, sad to see

Yup, the team has been completely terrible when it comes to his development. Although, even if he was playing it would almost certainly still be terrible, only slightly less so. It seems extremely likely that once he finds himself in a full-time position with the Leafs they will "develop" him just like Dermott: several years being trained to be nothing except an extremely sheltered third-pairing D, and once in a blue moon when major injury problems occur being thrown up the lineup in a completely hectic situation for which he will have never been trained or prepared to deal with.

Its a little surprising the Leafs didn't let Sandin play this year in the SEL for his development.

I guess it depends on whether or not you actually believe that the Leafs' care about developing Sandin, because the other option is that all they care about is winning today and therefore having him available if they run into injury problems is more important then actually developing him into a good defenseman.
 
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frizzer1

Registered User
Oct 19, 2013
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Never liked the idea of trading young d men.
They usually take a lot longer than forwards to develop.
 

Maplebeasts

I See Demons!!!!!
Oct 26, 2014
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Barrie, Ontario
Why are we going to pretend like he’s not ready? He looked good to me in his appearances last year. He’s had an entire offseason to improve and looked good in the preseason scrimmage. Stop pretending like he can’t play. Keefe had no problem playing Lehtonen who’s never played an NHL game.
Liljegren is the real victim here. He's been better in the AHL than Sandin, and even John Tavares went out of his way to say how impressive he was in camp yet he didn't even get on the taxi squad.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,610
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He's supposedly one of our best prospect and hasn't even got into a game?

Leafs seem to not want to give their prospects a true opportunity. Throwing forwards on the 4th line and then sitting them right after etc.

Why is Sandin not given that 3rd pairing spot and give him a handful of games to establish himself. Neither Dermott or Lehtonen have taken control of the spot and Sandin hasn't even been given a look through 8?

Who's job is he taking right now?
 

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