Why isn’t Lindros in the HHOF?

[Hawksfan2828]

I think the knee injuries slowed his development (both MCL's, one strained multiple times, one torn, before he was 20!)... but he did develop.

His D game got better to the point he was definitely a 'good' defensive player, he was always 'good' on faceoff but he became an all time great on the dot, and he turned himself into a pretty darn good PKer.

I actually think despite his 94-95 season being one many point to as his 'peak', the best he ever was was 1998-99...

as complete a player as he ever was at that point and was neck and neck with Jagr in points (in what ended up being Jagr's best ever season) up until game 60 of the year.

Pacing for over 120 points at the end of February. While playing 3 minutes a night less than Jagr!

He did not have the 'Legion of Doom' then either... Renberg was close to done and did not play much on his line, LeClair was ofc still good, but the other winger was mainly Keith Jones... with Maneluk & Zubrus getting time on that RW too.

Lindros from October 1998 to February 1999 was as dominant a hockey player as you could wish for really.

I don't know if I agree he developed his game. He clearly didn't learn that starring at the puck is a bad idea..

At any rate when it comes to HOF consideration I don't know if he did enough, then factor in injuries, his arrogant holdouts and refusals to play for a couple of teams, hold outs and the fact he had a massive flaw in not being vigilant on ice which led to his injuries - also the fact he never won anything of notability..

It's a no for me, however if everything went right for him it is very possible he would be up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr etc...

Everything that could go wrong for Lindros did... Of course I find this ironic because after all he thought he was Gods gift to hockey and refused to play for a couple of teams, and of course that started in juniors...

I suppose my point is that he has more working against him than he has working for him when it comes to the HOF...

 

[Hobnobs]

I cannot remember clearly tbh... but I don't think they did you know.

Looking at the boxscores it would seem they did not either... they played a few days later and nothing happened in that game either.

I have a very vivid memory of a lot of what happened from ~1998-2000 though with Lindros, even though I was like 9 years old, mainly due to the 'Lindros story/controversy/feud' having big segments constantly on TV here whenever the Flyers were on, my Dad used to record every Flyers game we could possibly get over here on VHS, which was maybe ~25-30 games a year (Flyers, Rangers & Maple Leafs seemed to be the teams who got the most games on TV here, like every other game televised involved one of those teams!) + all the playoffs... (I was not allowed to stay up and watch!)

they used to do like 'reviews of the week' on the teams who were playing during intermission/before those games, and we did not get the American/Canadian feed intermission, so they broadcast either these reviews or like mini-documentaries/summaries of events around the NHL in those slots.

In 2000-01 when he was sitting out they broadcast like a 30 minute summary of the Lindros situation and the events leading up to it multiple times... and I must have watched each game maybe ~3 times in the next 5 years and that summary about 15 times!

Sadly my Mum threw out a lot of my VHS's... I had every F1 race from 1995-2003 recorded and every Flyers game (well, every one that was available on TV over here) from 1998-2004 on tape, I went to University and found loads had been thrown as she thought they were crap and we had DVD's now so tapes were useless! When I had kept them and an old TV/Video to watch that stuff over... I had intended to get the tapes all onto digital from like ~2006 onwards, but never got round to it and most were thrown in 2009.

I think if I dug around there may be ~5 games left on VHS somewhere, I know I still have a lot of the Flyers vs Toronto series in 2004, I watched some of that ~2 years ago. I have the Flyers vs Ottawa brawl on VHS as well still! But a lot of the older games I had watched so many times I had boxed them and put them in the loft, instead of in a shelf in my room... and all the VHS from the loft were thrown.

Really sad really! The ~1998-2000 stuff would have been like gold now. Not too many full games you get from the 90's... and I had like ~35% off those Flyers seasons + playoffs in full.

Thats one of the saddest stories Ive ever read.

 

[Appleyard]

Thats one of the saddest stories Ive ever read.

Yeh, I think I held it against here for like 6 months!

Losing most of 1995-99, which I had in full, of Michael Schumachers career hurt almost as much! Though more of those were saved as ~1/4 were in a box under stuff... off-topic but I have some gems still from what I consider him 'at his best'. I think he was better then in pretty poor cars than he was in the Ferrari heyday... seeing him battle for wins and championships when his team-mate was coming ~6-8th in races with few retirements was insane... especially when said team-mate almost won a championship a few years later once the car got good and Schumacher was out injured. (also maybe 1/2 of those races are floating around on the internet, not all in full, but a decent amount, while full Hockey game recordings are few and far between.)

I actually keep meaning to go round to my Grandma's and check in her loft... a crate of VHS were moved over their the last time my parents moved house, and I have a sneaky feeling there may be a few tapes in there of old Flyers games. I hope so anyway, I would be happy to find even one from 1998-2000!

 

[Hobnobs]

Yeh, I think I held it against here for like 6 months!

Losing most of 1995-99, which I had in full, of Michael Schumachers career hurt almost as much! Though more of those were saved as ~1/4 were in a box under stuff... off-topic but I have some gems still from what I consider him 'at his best'. I think he was better then in pretty poor cars than he was in the Ferrari heyday... seeing him battle for wins and championships when his team-mate was coming ~6-8th in races with few retirements was insane... especially when said team-mate almost won a championship a few years later once the car got good and Schumacher was out injured. (also maybe 1/2 of those races are floating around on the internet, not all in full, but a decent amount, while full Hockey game recordings are few and far between.)

I actually keep meaning to go round to my Grandma's and check in her loft... a crate of VHS were moved over their the last time my parents moved house, and I have a sneaky feeling there may be a few tapes in there of old Flyers games. I hope so anyway, I would be happy to find even one from 1998-2000!

If my mom threw away anything that my gramps saved I would have gone thermal nuclear, thats for sure. Thats games ranging back to the 50s....

 

[Appleyard]

If my mom threw away anything that my gramps saved I would have gone thermal nuclear, thats for sure. Thats games ranging back to the 50s....

I had to stew quietly... my Mum is only like 5'2 and 100lbs, but she would probably beat me up if I shouted at her! My Dad is 6'1, 210lbs, boxed to a pretty good level and played American Football as a linebacker on a British championship team... (one of his fellow ILBs on his team ended up in NFL Europe I believe a few years after he quite.) but I am not scared of him at all!

I love old footage of any sport... when the British Pathe archives were all put on youtube a few years back I spent a good few weeks watching old sports footage from the turn of the century to the ~80s.

 

[Big Phil]

I rarely hear that though. He gets a lot of flack now a days even(compared to back then) for "disappearing" in the finals and letting his team down.

People remember the winner and the loser in different ways obviously. Lindros came out as the loser who couldn't lead his team to a cup. Many don't look at him leading the post season in points and the flyers losing to an incredible wings team. Instead the big jerk finally fell from cloud nine and lost the series for them.

Many were quick to forget Crosbys performance in the 2009 finals because they won. If they would have lost, you can bet the amount of critizism Crosby would get would be sky high. But they won so all is forgiven.

It's a shame but it's the truth.

As I have said before, Crosby does have other things that offset his 2009 Cup final performance. He blows Lindros out of the water in the postseason, so there's that right there. Crosby has another run similar to 2009, and that was 2008. Lindros has nothing even remotely close to 1997.

If Crosby hadn't won a Cup by now, you'd better believe he'd be criticized a lot and even blamed for 2009. Which is fair. He probably lost a Conn Smythe based on his performance so it isn't as if no one remembers it.

Like it or not it happened in other parts of Lindros' career. Could he have played better in the 1996 World Cup? 1998 Olympics? For sure. He was counted on to do more and didn't. There was always the idea that somehow, someway you could shut down and contain Lindros, or get him frustrated. It isn't as if he's the first or last star to be shadowed.

Look I'm a huge Forsberg fan and I have constantly given him the benefit of the doubt that they still would have won with him there, but he didn't play and they still won.

Let's see how far philly gets in '97 without Lindros.

We don't have to, we can check other years. 2000 is an example. The Flyers are rolling along in the playoffs and have a 3-1 lead against New Jersey. They lose Game 5, Lindros comes back in Game 6 and we all know what happened in Game 7 and they lost both of those games. So without him they were one game away from the final just three years later. A little less dominant of a Lindros by then, but still.

I think Forsberg has clearly answered the bell in the playoffs over the years and the less we compare him in the playoffs to Lindros the better it looks........for Lindros.

 

[Sens Rule]

Thats one of the saddest stories Ive ever read.

My mom gave all my huge collection of lego away. And I even saved all the manuals. I think I was in university. Wish I had all that old lego now. For my nephews.

I know that feeling! Lol. At least she didn't throw out hockey cards!

Hopefully a lot of the tapes of those old full games and stuff end up easily searchable on the internet eventually.

I think the CBC lost so many really old hockey tapes. That's a tragedy.

I used to save sports sections from the Ottawa Citizen. I through them out myself at some point. On the 4th level of the Scoriabank place to go to a restaurant I saw the Citizen issue from the Gretzky trade to LA. Blown up 8 feet tall in the hallway. I kept that paper for like 10 years!

I hope lots of pre big time internet stuff before the late 90's is digitized. Lot is. Lots might still need to be.

 

[Appleyard]

Jaromir Jagrs 1998-99 season is arguably the best individual NHL season by a player since Lemieux in 1995-96... yet:

1998-99:

Jagr: 3.47 P/60
Lindros: 3.43 P/60

Jagr: 1.26 G/60
Lindros: 1.47 G/60

In the 2nd lowest scoring NHL season since 1956.

Ofc, who is to say that Jagr would not have produced at a higher clip in less minutes, or that had Lindros played the extra minutes Jagr did he would have been able to keep up that pace.

But still, it is impressive and highlights just how impactful he was when on ice... and this is just his offensive output, not those other things.

And he was at a ~similar level to that from 1993-99. (with the exception of 1997-98, where he was not quite up to that standard. And I must say personally I do think that the first ~60 games of 1998-99 was the best Lindros maybe ever was.)