Why is the NHL blatantly biased against the Montreal Canadiens?

[groovejuice]

Spend more time in your own end and you're going to take more penalties. This:

2012-13: 1`st
2013-14: 21st
2014-15: 30th

is not coincidence.

BTW, I'm going to edit the title of this thread to "against" rather than "towards" the Montreal Canadiens because I think that's what the OP meant. Feel free to ping me if you want me to change it back.

That's a very interesting connection, and likely relevant to the discussion.

However, the NHL has admitted to a blacklist for embellishment, and Kerry Fraser outed a different blacklist for "trouble makers".

It's why players like Gallagher can't draw a call even while being gang *****.

I'm sure everyone recalls the last minute where 4 opposing players committed every possible penalty against him to prevent him from leaving the O zone. Roughing, interference, holding... et al. The puck was at centre ice.

There is collusion and that sequence absolutely demonstrates it.

If anyone can find the clip and post it....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's a very interesting connection, and likely relevant to the discussion.

However, the NHL has admitted to a blacklist for embellishment, and Kerry Fraser outed a different blacklist for "trouble makers".

It's why players like Gallagher can't draw a call even while being gang *****.

I'm sure everyone recalls the last minute where 4 opposing players committed every possible penalty against him to prevent him from leaving the O zone. Roughing, interference, holding... et al. The puck was at centre ice.

There is collusion and that sequence absolutely demonstrates it.

If anyone can find the clip and post it....

I get that there's a list of players who won't get calls but 30th in the league is more than just a blacklist. If you're in your own end all the time you're chasing the puck and it leads to things like hooking penalties...

Notice that we did very well for ourselves in 2013 when we were dictating the play rather than chasing it.

 

[groovejuice]

I get that there's a list of players who won't get calls but 30th in the league is more than just a blacklist. If you're in your own end all the time you're chasing the puck and it leads to things like hooking penalties...

Notice that we did very well for ourselves in 2013 when we were dictating the play rather than chasing it.

That's why I agreed with your analysis. No doubt the idiotic strategy of giving away possession of the puck contributes to extended D zone play, which naturally results in more penalties.

I stick by my opinion, however that the reffing is substandard and bias is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

 

[Bryson]

I totally agree with you but you won't get much support because it's a very subjective topic. Most fan bases think their team gets abused.

I've been watching since the 80's and there was definitely a change when Bettman took over from Ziegler. Not sure what it is. Could be that our management and ownership was more respected and influential in those days.

PK being ejected was completely ridiculous. Crosby slashes players at least once a game and doesn't even get a penalty most of the time. Duncan Keith holds a guy by the pants and no call on him last night. PK does the same thing and off he goes. Gallagher gets abused in front of the net and can never draw a penalty. There was a stretch in the 2nd period where all our players were cycling and getting tripped in the O zone and no calls. It's infuriating.

I used to be glued to my TV in the 80's and 90's and now I can barely watch as the refs are too noticeable for my taste.

My pet peeve is the controversial goals that never go our way. I don't think it's just perception. MTL has become irrelevant in the eyes of the league. They take our profits and we get nothing in return.

I agree with you. Montreal has become irrelevant in this league. I don't know what we can do to change it and that makes me sad. Gary Bettman would rather promote the american teams because he knows that Montreal will just fill their seats every night regardless.

 

[Bryson]

Spend more time in your own end and you're going to take more penalties. This:

2012-13: 1`st
2013-14: 21st
2014-15: 30th

is not coincidence.

BTW, I'm going to edit the title of this thread to "against" rather than "towards" the Montreal Canadiens because I think that's what the OP meant. Feel free to ping me if you want me to change it back.

I get that there's a list of players who won't get calls but 30th in the league is more than just a blacklist. If you're in your own end all the time you're chasing the puck and it leads to things like hooking penalties...

Notice that we did very well for ourselves in 2013 when we were dictating the play rather than chasing it.

Very good post LG. Very good post.

 

[Barriwhite]

the refs are trying to prove they arent influenced by the crowd, NHL refs are a joke

My thoughts as well.

This is mostly caused by our proactive, energetic crowd, and the fact that some refs feel the need to "prove" themselves.

Those refs are actively trying to demonstrate they aren't/won't be influenced by the crowd, and by doing that, become biased in the way they judge and react to events on the ice.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

I don't think the league is against Montreal, but there are officials who are.

Chara-Pacioretty is the singularly most disturbing bit of league non-action involving the Habs, ever (or more correcvtly, that I have ever seen).

I'll submit that there is definitely one team out there that gets worse treatment than the Habs, and that's Pittsburgh.

Crosby gets abused, league is fine with it.

No fan of Crosby here, but I am a fan of talent. I see a lot of Pens games and it is confounding that Pitt gets the treatment they do.

 

[Bryson]

Complaints like this make me cringe, the whole league is a joke and everybody gets screwed over or benefits from a screwing regularly.

This is not just a case of reactionary angsty whining over one bad call. There is more than enough evidence to confirm precedence. The Montreal Canadiens have a very long history of seeing their playoff aspirations get completely decimated over a gruesome injury which has made me very sensitive. Zednick, Koivu, Markov, Pacioretty, Eller, Price. It's no longer a case of will the habs make it though the playoffs healthy but more a question of who and when.

When was the last time a player nearly killed a man and went completely unpunished? 24 stanely cups and the habs couldn't even buy a sympathy suspension while boston gets away with a ton of antics and dangerous plays. Do they have an unfair advantage because of their ties with Chiarelli and Campbell? Kreider now has a precedence of running and injuring opposing goalies and yet nothing has been done to stop him all because he plays on one of the superpower teams. It's both incompetence and bias.

Most home teams have been able to get 4-6 PP calls their way. Ottawa 5 PP including a major, Montreal 1 PP. At what point do you wake up and realize that maybe there is something else going on here especially when our very own players have come out confirming being on some stupid blacklist. That's not collusion?

That's also why it will play against Subban's candidacy for captain. Who wants a captain that's on a blacklist?

 

[Phil Parent]

I don't buy this.

Tell me that individual referees like Chris Lee are incompetent and are trying to make themselves the center of attention, this I buy, but I don't buy that there's a league-wide conspiracy VS the Habs.

 

[groovejuice]

I don't buy this.

Tell me that individual referees like Chris Lee are incompetent and are trying to make themselves the center of attention, this I buy, but I don't buy that there's a league-wide conspiracy VS the Habs.

Yet the league is aware of and tolerates a blacklist shared by officials.

Sorry, the mere existence of this list is ample evidence of endorsed bias.

 

[Phil Parent]

Yet the league is aware of and tolerates a blacklist shared by officials.

Sorry, the mere existence of this list is ample evidence of endorsed bias.

Not only Habs are on it. And yeah, PK does embellish. It's true!

 

[Haaabs]

I don't think its a league conspiracy.

I think its a negative portrayal in the media but it isn't on purpose. As much as you try not to be bias, a lot of these guys were players for the Bruins/Leafs or grew up Leafs fans and hating the Habs.

As for RDS/TVA, They are harder on the team to show that they are neutral.

Other teams get screwed just as much, we just don't hear about it. Our media covers EVERYTHING and things that get swept under the rug elsewhere, gets blown out of proportion here.

 

[groovejuice]

Not only Habs are on it. And yeah, PK does embellish. It's true!

That's not the point, and don't be so naive.

It's intolerable to allow bias against certain players. If you don't agree with this, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

 

[groovejuice]

Very good article here on Kerry Fraser's outing of internal blacklists.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...ciating-canadiens-brendan-gallagher-pk-subban

 

[DangerDave]

Very good article here on Kerry Fraser's outing of internal blacklists.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...ciating-canadiens-brendan-gallagher-pk-subban

Good article. Thanks.

 

[CrazyShea]

That's not the point, and don't be so naive.

It's intolerable to allow bias against certain players. If you don't agree with this, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Yeah can't see how the players union allows this. They could easily sue over this and win. Clear case of discrimination

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's not the point, and don't be so naive.

It's intolerable to allow bias against certain players. If you don't agree with this, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I don't agree with it.

Some players dive and they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. Call it 'bias' if you wish but those reputations were earned. I'm not saying they should never get the call but I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Would you give the benefit of the doubt to Brad Marchand for example?

 

[groovejuice]

I don't agree with it.

Some players dive and they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. Call it 'bias' if you wish but those reputations were earned. I'm not saying they should never get the call but I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Would you give the benefit of the doubt to Brad Marchand for example?

Doesn't need to be a benefit of doubt. What's required is consistency.

Kreider runs goalies, knocks them out of games. Bettman's NHL is more concerned with embellishment than a tactic to injure players.

It's unacceptable. Refs need to be competent, objective and consistent. Reputation calls will occur regardless, because officials are human. But to endorse an admitted blacklist is targeting certain players.

The last minute sequence with Gallagher against Winnipeg is a freakin' catastrophe. I'd fire every on ice official for that. Not just because it's absurdly and obviously prejudiced. But mostly because it cost the team an opportunity to attack and tie the game. That should be intolerable.

 

[groovejuice]

Yeah can't see how the players union allows this. They could easily sue over this and win. Clear case of discrimination

Yup. I've mentioned this previously also. It's astonishing that the Union will defend players who clearly attempt to injure other players, but don't seem to care about clear and regular bias by officials.

 

[Hawkeye71980]

I don't agree with it.

Some players dive and they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. Call it 'bias' if you wish but those reputations were earned. I'm not saying they should never get the call but I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Would you give the benefit of the doubt to Brad Marchand for example?

How about the refs just learn whats a dive and what isn't? Like how about check on the guy that just fell like he got shot and ran off to the dressing room and see if he's actually hurt before giving a game misconduct due to an injury. or else keep Stone out of the game if your going to kick Subban out for "injuring him".....

Yes this will sometimes mean raising their hand for a penalty and blowing the whistle only to say "my bad" no penalty on the play, like they did on the Subban high Stick earlier....

Would they rather get it right, or call something immediatly?

Also i never understood calling a penalty for diving but still giving the other guy the penalty. If the guy dove then isn't the infraction irrelevant? that might deter some guys from diving when they put their team shothanded.

 

[CrazyShea]

How about the refs just learn whats a dive and what isn't? Like how about check on the guy that just fell like he got shot and ran off to the dressing room and see if he's actually hurt before giving a game misconduct due to an injury. or else keep Stone out of the game if your going to kick Subban out for "injuring him".....

Yes this will sometimes mean raising their hand for a penalty and blowing the whistle only to say "my bad" no penalty on the play, like they did on the Subban high Stick earlier....

Would they rather get it right, or call something immediatly?

Also i never understood calling a penalty for diving but still giving the other guy the penalty. If the guy dove then isn't the infraction irrelevant? that might deter some guys from diving when they put their team shothanded.

I agree to an extent but it depends on the situation and I guess that's where the grey area comes into play. Sometimes the player does commit a legit penalty but the other player embellishes and tries to sell it, while in other situations there is no penalty committed and the embellishment gets the call. I guess the refs would have to determine if there was an actual penalty committed and if not only give the player that dove the penalty. It would definitely cut down on diving if only the diver would get called for the penalty. I also find it stupid when a team scores a goal but it's disallowed due to goal interference but the player never goes to the box. If it's goalie interference why is there no penalty?

 

[Fish on The Sand]

How about the refs just learn whats a dive and what isn't? Like how about check on the guy that just fell like he got shot and ran off to the dressing room and see if he's actually hurt before giving a game misconduct due to an injury. or else keep Stone out of the game if your going to kick Subban out for "injuring him".....

Yes this will sometimes mean raising their hand for a penalty and blowing the whistle only to say "my bad" no penalty on the play, like they did on the Subban high Stick earlier....

Would they rather get it right, or call something immediatly?

Also i never understood calling a penalty for diving but still giving the other guy the penalty. If the guy dove then isn't the infraction irrelevant? that might deter some guys from diving when they put their team shothanded.

I think refs should have the ability to rescind the game misconduct aspect of the penalty if it looks like the initial call was too much. Or maybe make it a 10 minute misconduct instead of game.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I would also like to add that we should get this trash off the board. Whining about the refs is unbecoming and makes us look like the Bruins.

 

[groovejuice]

I would also like to add that we should get this trash off the board. Whining about the refs is unbecoming and makes us look like the Bruins.

How is discussing admitted bias from refs whining?

Feel free to abstain from the conversation or change your handle to "Head in the Sand".

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would also like to add that we should get this trash off the board. Whining about the refs is unbecoming and makes us look like the Bruins.

The fact of the matter is that we've been near the bottom in terms of special team opportunities for a while now. I think it's more than okay to discuss why this is the case and I don't think it's 'whining' either.

Moreover, for any Bruin or Sen fan who wants to look at this discussion as 'whining' at the very least they will educate themselves that Montreal does NOT receive special treatment from the league's officials except perhaps in a negative way. Bruins fans (I ran into one the other night) still think we get nothing but PPs. They either have NO idea of what they're talking about or they're spreading crap... and it's probably a bit of both.

Personally I don't think it's bias at all btw. I think it's that we spend a lot of time in our own zone. We didn't have this problem when we played well in 2013...

Doesn't need to be a benefit of doubt. What's required is consistency.

Kreider runs goalies, knocks them out of games. Bettman's NHL is more concerned with embellishment than a tactic to injure players.

It's unacceptable. Refs need to be competent, objective and consistent. Reputation calls will occur regardless, because officials are human. But to endorse an admitted blacklist is targeting certain players.

The last minute sequence with Gallagher against Winnipeg is a freakin' catastrophe. I'd fire every on ice official for that. Not just because it's absurdly and obviously prejudiced. But mostly because it cost the team an opportunity to attack and tie the game. That should be intolerable.

I agree there's some merit to what you're saying but on the whole I have no problem with known divers and embellishers not getting calls that might go to other players with better reputations. At the end of the day, refs are human. They don't have the benefit of instant replay. And when they make a call that they later find out was a dive... it probably pisses them off. Can't say I blame them if they don't give that player the benefit of the doubt next time.