Why is the blatantly obvious not, well, obvious?

[systemsgo]

To be fair, I'm not questioning that they are or aren't, its the fact that it should be obvious Orpik will be a shell of his former (and even current) self in five years, which is how long his contract is for.

They massively overpaid for him, and Nisky IMO.


Just because a Dodge Dart is an upgrade over my current POS ride doesn't mean I should pay $50,000 for one and drag the loan out for 10 years.

Orpik's term is too long, I've no idea, I thought it was terrible as well, but it looks like the Avs apparently offered the same. So maybe the GMs know something we don't.

I look at Nisky's contract as taking a gamble, they believed he would maintain his level of play, so they paid him. He's not been bad for them at all, in fact, he's playing well, stats don't reflect everything.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

One of the interviews this past week with MJ actually went contrary to the thought of not playing the puck. I think it might've been after the kings game where he basically said that he wanted MAF to play the puck. I'll see if I can dig it up.

starts around the 2:30 mark

paraphrased

- starting to improve
- likes his decision making with it
- wants him to handle it
- more he gets comfortable with it the better he'll be at it.

[NHL]658500&catid=829[/NHL]

I understand the reasoning, but like most others, I don't see him being able to net more positives outcomes than negatives when handling it. Maybe MJ is paying more lip service than anything, I dunno.

Well hopefully as I said they are trying to get him to move the puck faster. I get why MJ wants his goalie to play the puck in his system, but MAF is a potato head with the puck on his stick.

 

[DoktorZaius]

i disagree. He has at least 5 unforced giveaways every game. He panics way too easily. He also puts Despres in precarious positions almost every game because he panics. If Despres were a smaller player he'd probably have a concussion already. When Borts is ready to play I expect Scuderi to sit if MJ is the coach I think he is.

Johnson went out of his way to talk up Scuds as having had an excellent start to the season in a press conference last week. Pretty sure they're trying to find a buyer for him. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to give him minutes where they think he'll look good, so they can pawn him off on someone.

Not everything is a pure coaching decision, so don't hate on MJ right now if Scuds doesn't sit.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Johnson went out of his way to talk up Scuds as having had an excellent start to the season in a press conference last week. Pretty sure they're trying to find a buyer for him. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to give him minutes where they think he'll look good, so they can pawn him off on someone.

Not everything is a pure coaching decision, so don't hate on MJ right now if Scuds doesn't sit.

Or Johnston really does like Scuderi and I despair.

 

[ColePens]

From here on out - if you are going to call someone a troll, you will be wasting your time. The post will be deleted and you will be given an infraction. Let the trolls dig their own grave. Don't dig yours right next to it.

 

[Tender Rip]

Well, lots of things are blatantly obvious in hindsight. Many of those who believe them obvious now took their sweet time coming to that conclusion though.

As for something completely different, I have always thought it absolutely insane to have Malkin on the left point of the PP, but with him improving his efficiency there and puck movement having become a lot more efficient with the addition of Hornqvist, it now starts looking like the right thing to do to get the most out of the PP overall (what with Sid and Malkin ultimately preferring to play the same area of the ice on the PP.
Suppose this is one of those things where what has been obvious for a long time suddenly is not so obvious anymore. Bylsma was also aiming for that, he just did it without the RH shot/added tenacity of Hornqvist, and Malkin didn't look as effective there. So he looked the gimp whereas Johnston does not, but probably that is simplistic.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It's pretty clear Geno's there cuz he has the best shot on the team.
The PP is forcing you to either play Geno for his shot or take the 2 net fronts in Kunitz/Horny. Teams collapse to cover the net fronts? That leaves Geno with all the time and space to walk down the zone and hammer it in goal.

 

[BmxHockey]

On a different note-making a coaching change when you're still having success year in, year out- the reason why you don't fire your coach is because it makes you look like a Dbag of an organization. Who would want to coach for an organization that fires their coach when there is 20 other teams out there that would be happy with the same success? I'd say the Pens strategically did the right thing by moving out the GM, hiring an old one and making the onus be on the new GM. It's a great strategy. Otherwise, you can't just fire the coach who is one playoff series away from the Finals.

 

[WayneSid9987]

On a different note-making a coaching change when you're still having success year in, year out- the reason why you don't fire your coach is because it makes you look like a Dbag of an organization. Who would want to coach for an organization that fires their coach when there is 20 other teams out there that would be happy with the same success? I'd say the Pens strategically did the right thing by moving out the GM, hiring an old one and making the onus be on the new GM. It's a great strategy. Otherwise, you can't just fire the coach who is one playoff series away from the Finals.

It depends how you define "success".
The Pens should've been striving for more. Not settling for the status quo(auto playoff team).
I thought the org. looked bad not firing DB the same day they let Shero go. That made them look more DBag'y imo.

One series away from the finals? DB's teams haven't won an ECF game since '09.

 

[Tender Rip]

On a different note-making a coaching change when you're still having success year in, year out- the reason why you don't fire your coach is because it makes you look like a Dbag of an organization. Who would want to coach for an organization that fires their coach when there is 20 other teams out there that would be happy with the same success? I'd say the Pens strategically did the right thing by moving out the GM, hiring an old one and making the onus be on the new GM. It's a great strategy. Otherwise, you can't just fire the coach who is one playoff series away from the Finals.

That argument makes no sense when 27-29 teams would want to swap rosters with you if they could.
It is also why teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc. changes coaches when they don't win.

Sure, there is much more parity in the NHL, but because of Sid and Geno we have had a special situation. The manner in which we have repeatedly failed dictated that he was fired, and should have been fired MUCH sooner.

 

[lastcupever75]

They kept him because despite the banter around here, it's difficult to find money goalies. MAF backstopped them to back to back cups. It's not easy to find these guys and he has it in him to be at that level again if he has his head on straight. He's just a ****ing flake. His teammates and the casual fans in Pgh love the guy.
.

i dont think you phrased that correctly.

anyway, IMO he was more along for the ride then a difference in the year we won the cup.
he barely outplayed the flyers goalie until game 6
the caps rookie goalie outplayed him most of the series

and he was awful in the losses to detroit

 

[Woodrow]

Could be. But I don't think posters here believe he's got the brain capacity to feed or clothe himself at this point, haha. A lot of people thought Boudreau would crash and burn after Washington too.

I think most people got their impressions of both Bylsma and Boudreau early on from their appearances on 24/7. Bylsma came off as such a good guy in that show that it did wonders for his image around the league. Boudreau on the other hand came off poorly, looking like a buffoon with mustard on his face. Nobody seemed to care that the buffoon was out-coaching the great locker room guy. These first impressions lasted a long time in the minds of viewers.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Orpik's term is too long, I've no idea, I thought it was terrible as well, but it looks like the Avs apparently offered the same. So maybe the GMs know something we don't.

I look at Nisky's contract as taking a gamble, they believed he would maintain his level of play, so they paid him. He's not been bad for them at all, in fact, he's playing well, stats don't reflect everything.

Which goes back to my earlier point-- the market isn't logical. It seems common sense and black and white to us at home because we're not plugged in to what's going on behind the scene.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It's why FA should be the last place to shop. You should set limits on yourself on what you will pay for.

The Caps were willing to pay big to attempt to stabilize thier D.

Pens on the other hand went searching for bargain deals on good hockey players.
They were probably in on some wingers but the prices got too high.

 

[joeyjake5]

Lets talk about the obvious.

1. Right now Scuds is the 6th best D on this team.
2. All should be pleased with the way #47 has been playing so far. Way better than Scuds.
3. What did scuds do last year besides playing poorly, he blocked the development of #47. Scuds was given way too far ice time last year at the expense of #47.
4. What is Scuds doing this year he is blocking the development of either Harrington or Dulumin. One of these two should be given ice time to see what they are capable of in the NHL.
5. If you were the pens management and Scuds was on another team, would you trade for Scuds. If your answer is yes, then I question your hockey judgment. If the pens would not trade for him why would some one else. He is untradeable. His great playing and contract speak for itself.
6. Excluding a blockbuster trade, probably Martin is the biggest and most logical asset to be traded. Don't expect the return to be too high since he is a UFA. He will only be traded to a contender since a non-contender doesn't want a ufa D.
7. When BB comes back and that is a big IF, he should be given at least a 10 game trial with Geno to see what he brings to the table.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

i dont think you phrased that correctly.

Ya, cup finals was what I meant.

anyway, IMO he was more along for the ride then a difference in the year we won the cup.
he barely outplayed the flyers goalie until game 6
the caps rookie goalie outplayed him most of the series

He made some key saves in the Flyer series, especially the one on Carter. He also had some huge stops in the caps series, the breakaway on AO was monumental IMHO.

and he was awful in the losses to detroit

He let up two goals in the most important games of the series, including the biggest save on Lidstrom all alone as time expired.

He may have **** the bed since '09, but let's not re-write history here and claim he wasn't a key to those two finals appearances and ultimately raising the cup in '09.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I thought he was better in 08 than 09 overall. idk, maybe this has all been him settling to his norm, not 08 good but not 12/13 bad.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

I thought he was better in 08 than 09 overall. idk, maybe this has all been him settling to his norm, not 08 good but not 12/13 bad.

As long as he plays consistently well (enough), the team will be competitive in the post season.
I actually think he can (obviously, I wouldn't put my life savings on it).

One could argue someone like Reimer (for instance), could be a more cost effective way to to achieve results, but I really don't expect to see 12/13 Fleury again.

 

[wgknestrick]

The blatantly obvious thing to me is that there seem(s or ed) to be a distinct rift inside the organization on who they draft and acquire and what information that decision is based from.

Sometimes, this team makes very intelligent decisions that seemed to be based off of data and facts, while other times this team likes to take the "safe" good ol boy approach.

A couple of instances where they made a very intelligent decision:

-Signing Vokoun. He was so under-rated as a goaltender and should've commanded 5mil+ based off his history and stats. We didn't play him enough though.

-Greiss is Vokoun lite and another great signing. Falling on that same mistake we made with Vokoun.

-Drafting Maatta. He fell to them late in the 1st and had superior potential vs Pouliott at the time.

-Trading for JJ. What a steal and a good player. He frustrated people here time to time, but he produced very well for us.

Where they dropped the ball: (there are way more, but these are the ones off the top of my head)

-Trading for Morrow. Morrow had terrible stats, and possession metrics prior to being acquired. If we (general public) could find this information, why did the Pens still actively give up a decent asset to get him? Morrow was, at best, a decent upgrade over Adams/Glass at the time. We all knew that Adams/Glass wasn't coming out, so Morrow displaced much better, younger players from the playoff roster. We threw away a queen (BB or JJ) to draw a 5 (Morrow). What was the plan with him? There was none.

Trading for Murray/signing Eaton. Enough said. We all knew he was terrible (apply "he" to either). These guys knocked Despres out of the lineup.

-Drafting Pouliott instead of a forward (Forsberg was generally the consensus pick here at the time). Pouliott was just not needed at all with our roster, and prospects at the time. If you have a high, top 10 pick, you pick a forward IMO.

Igilna- Why? Sure he was a huge name, but well behind his best years. We got him and while he got his PP points (which wasn't a problem for this team), he was a liability at ES (-4 in playoffs) because he still couldn't skate. He didn't fill a true hole and we gave up a decent 1st round pick along with a pair of solid college prospects (both 7.0Cs). We couldn't afford to get any slimmer in the forward prospect department. We paid a heavy price for him to provide nothing of a net positive at 5v5.

Scuderi signing. uggggly


The big question to me is; Was Shero the cancer behind most of the mistakes, or does that source still reside inside the organization as a scouting director, owner, etc? Continuing to play MAF and consider him the unchallenged-able starter makes me think that not much has changed. Scuderi too.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Ya, cup finals was what I meant.



He made some key saves in the Flyer series, especially the one on Carter. He also had some huge stops in the caps series, the breakaway on AO was monumental IMHO.



He let up two goals in the most important games of the series, including the biggest save on Lidstrom all alone as time expired.

He may have **** the bed since '09, but let's not re-write history here and claim he wasn't a key to those two finals appearances and ultimately raising the cup in '09.

For a little context, the Pens NEVER trailed in 09 when facing elimination. Flower let up a total of 4 goals in 3 elimination games, 2 of which were in garbage time after the Pens were already blowing out Washington.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

For a little context, the Pens NEVER trailed in 09 when facing elimination. Flower let up a total of 4 goals in 3 elimination games, 2 of which were in garbage time after the Pens were already blowing out Washington.

The Pens also had one single shot in the third period of game 7. They were just holding on without Crosby and MAF didn't wilt.

People trying to do revisionist history and discredit MAF are being completely delusional. He's been mostly a total spazz since '10, but that should never take away from what he did in '08 and '09.

 

[DoktorZaius]

Lets talk about the obvious.

1. Right now Scuds is the 6th best D on this team.
2. All should be pleased with the way #47 has been playing so far. Way better than Scuds.
3. What did scuds do last year besides playing poorly, he blocked the development of #47. Scuds was given way too far ice time last year at the expense of #47.
4. What is Scuds doing this year he is blocking the development of either Harrington or Dulumin. One of these two should be given ice time to see what they are capable of in the NHL.
5. If you were the pens management and Scuds was on another team, would you trade for Scuds. If your answer is yes, then I question your hockey judgment. If the pens would not trade for him why would some one else. He is untradeable. His great playing and contract speak for itself.
6. Excluding a blockbuster trade, probably Martin is the biggest and most logical asset to be traded. Don't expect the return to be too high since he is a UFA. He will only be traded to a contender since a non-contender doesn't want a ufa D.
7. When BB comes back and that is a big IF, he should be given at least a 10 game trial with Geno to see what he brings to the table.

Pens wouldn't trade for him, but we're one of the most stacked teams in the league depth-wise. If we find a team that's suitably beat up and desperate, and a GM that's looking for a vet defensive d-man? Maybe we can dump him in that case. In any event, I think I'm reading JR and the GM's intention here properly -- they're definitely trying to foster interest in Scuderi. Maybe it's as simple as they want to eat as little cap hit as possible in retained salary, so they're pumping his tires to the max. Not because doing so will bring us back something useful, but because we won't have to retain as much $$$.

 

[NastyNick]

To me, the biggest difference in the team's game has to be changing how they attack the opponent's net. Players are going to the dirty areas more and battling. I think this is part personnel and part coaching. Hornqvist, Downie, Spalling, Sill.. all those guys seem to be playing this style.

To the untrained eye it doesn't seem all that different, but the benefits will come when the playoffs come. It is hard seeing this team getting shut out the way the 2012 Penguins did vs Boston.

Defensively i haven't noticed much difference. This team plays good defense for stretches.. and bad defense for others. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground. Its a lot like the Ranger series. I haven't seen much of their trap to really comment.. sounds like we might get a 1-3-1.

The powerplay is performing really good too - but i don't see that lasting or even impacting when the playoffs come. There is still too much finesse and the unit is very weak on the back end. Letang has gots to go. Hornqvist seems like a better fit than Neal though.. Certainly gives more options.

And of course this team's Achilles heel - the goaltending. That hasn't changed. All the good coaching and good defense and good system won't win if Fleury falls apart. And so far Greiss hasn't show he is up to the task either. Pray to the NHL gods that this team doesn't get the Flyers in round one. I can barely handle watching Fleury against them during the regular season.

 

[Karnage420*]

Other "blatantly obvious" things that HFB was completely wrong about:
Martin is done trade him or buy him out.
Dupuis is done trade him or buy him out.
Scuderi is done trade him or buy him out.
Craig Adams is done send him down or buy him out.
Kunitz is falling apart. Trade him now.
Omg we got shafted on the Neal Hornqvist trade fire GMJR.

And this was just within the last month.

what's "obvious" to most posters on here would get them fired pretty quick if they ever got a GM job (thank The Lord they never will).

 

[mpp9]

Other "blatantly obvious" things that HFB was completely wrong about:
Martin is done trade him or buy him out.
Dupuis is done trade him or buy him out.
Scuderi is done trade him or buy him out.
Craig Adams is done send him down or buy him out.
Kunitz is falling apart. Trade him now.
Omg we got shafted on the Neal Hornqvist trade fire GMJR.

And this was just within the last month.

what's "obvious" to most posters on here would get them fired pretty quick if they ever got a GM job (thank The Lord they never will).

There's always hyperbole around these parts.

Moving Martin is about asset management, bringing in a player who can help Malkin impact the game at ES and getting our future on defense in the lineup.

Dupuis isn't human. It was very rational to assume his knee injury at his age would slow him down. He looks the same. Good for him. Still sucks with Malkin though.

Kunitz is racking up pts on the PP. I still am not a fan of his laziness. Hopefully they keep his minutes down, and he brings it in the playoffs. I still feel when his finishing ability goes away, he'll be a pretty useless player. His game won't translate well to a bottom six role.

Scuds is what he is. Extremely limited. And blocking the path of a younger higher ceiling D-man. He's looked better under MJ. If he sticks around this year, that's good. If he stays beyond this season, that's not good.

Adams will be sitting when we bring in a forward and BB returns. He's a borderline NHLer. That's all anyone was saying.

You're correct on the Neal trade. Many knowledgeable posters on here lost their minds.