Why is it inconceivable for Matthews to be McDavid's equal?

[BlueBaron]

It's not inconceivable, but highly unlikely given there is nothing to suggest to me that Matthews is half the playmaker McDavid has already shown he is. 70-29 assists is grand canyon like in the difference of playmaking ability for the 2. Also what is not mentioned here, is McDavid is going to be a better goal scorer as he learns to be less unselfish by shooting more. For those that pay attention. He has a very good shot. Even if Matthews improves, McDavid will too by who knows how much? I can see him scoring 40 goals next season. If he maintains his assists totals, and there is no reason to not think he will. The gap can be even larger next year. It's McDavid by a fair margin and then some.

Funny fact, when Crosby has his high goal seasons his assists go down. It is more likely that improving your playmaking will improve your point totals than improving your goal scoring.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Funny fact, when Crosby has his high goal seasons his assists go down. It is more likely that improving your playmaking will improve your point totals than improving your goal scoring.

He will never have as many assists as McDavid will if both play the same games. This one is almost as sure a thing that I know when comparing the 2 players. You do not even have to look at their NHL stats, you can go back to their developmental years. There is nothing to suggest Matthews will touch McDavid as a playmaker.

 

[MeowLeafs]

Did Kadri not play for the leafs in 2015-2016? Or was he injured when the oilers played the leafs?

Kadri didn't play in the game that McDavid scored 5 points against the Leafs.

McDavid against the Leafs without Kadri: 5 points in 1 game
McDavid against the Leafs with Kadri: 2 points in 2 games

so he's still a PPG vs TML. That's still not good for a shutdown superstar like Kadri

Well superstar shutdown center Nazem Kadri was able to decrease McDavid's output from 5 ppg to only 1 ppg. He made him 5 times less productive! That's pretty good, don't you think

For the record, I don't actually think Kadri is some superstar elite shutdown player. He did improve quite a bit last season though.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Just silly Leaf fans thinking they will pester and wear everyone down into calling Matthews any more than what he is - a franchise level talent.

Did you quote the wrong post? This is not related to my claim that you and other oilers fans are doing your share keeping this thread alive

 

[BlueBaron]

On the radio this morning Dave Poulin said both players look like they're generational. Close thread.

It is a fairly long list of professionals that have made this statement but none of them know what they are talking about, or so we are told. If you review this entire thread there has only been 2 quantifiable reasons with merit given for Matthews to never be comparable to McDavid.

McDavid's speed and his ability to play at that speed (which is easily the best)

McDavid's .23 points a game advantage as a rookie (granted he has a small sample size which would be a 19 point lead over a full season)

Both sound reasons to suggest McDavid is significantly better, as a rookie.

Other reasons we have been given are:

Line mates: Hyman and Nylander/Brown are greater than Lucic and Eberle, dubious at best

Hockey IQ: Subjective, unquantifiable and so holding little value as a comparison

An imaginary ceiling Matthews has: This one is ridiculous because it is again subjective and impossible to know

He is better at every aspect of the game: This of course ignores Matthews physical advantages, boards, corners, traffic, goal scoring, take aways etc.

Matthews was sheltered: The stats I have seen suggest this was true at the start of the season and became less so as the season progressed. It was absolutely not true in the playoffs.

So we have two real reasons.

1. Play at high speed never seen before.

2. Superior rookie numbers.

The first reason is very compelling, we have never seen a player with his speed and his ability to exploit that speed. The flaw with this argument though is it assumes there is only one way to be generational/or the best player in the game despite the entire history of the game suggesting the greats had a wide range of styles and skills though all share a rare ability to see the game (except maybe Lindros?). Again though this is something difficult to measure without hind sight.

The second assumes that progression has a formula required to be generational or to one day be the best. It assumes an arbitrary ppg rookie number that McDavid hit and Matthews did not in order to be a generational talent. However I am fairly certain if we said Draisaitl could not be as good as player X because of an inferior rookie season Oiler fans would laugh at us.

So anyone who is objective cannot say with certainty that Matthews is not generational or that he could never rival McDavid, there simply has been no case to support this.

We can look at the players who entered the league with McDavid's rookie point per game and say everyone else who was comparable was a special player, this is undeniable. We can also look at players like Martin St Louis and say that claiming to know someone's ceiling at such a young age is sheer stupidity.

So what we can conclude is McDavid is a vastly superior player as of this moment. That Matthews will have to make significant strides to close that gap and that the odds are against him. We can also conclude when looking at Matthew's rookie season when put into the context of age and position, that it was a remarkable achievement, it becomes even more so when scoring by era is factored in.

In conclusion, those stating Matthews is equal to or better than McDavid at this moment are not being objective. The same can also be said for those who claim he could never rival McDavid or be generational. He could (just as Eichel could) but he has a hell of a lot to prove before we can say either.

There really is no other reasonable conclusion.

 

[CanadiensforLife]

What separates Nylander from Lemieux?

31 years, and a great flow.

You forgot goals, assists, points and Stanley Cups.

 

[moog35]

Auston Nostrils will never be as good as McDavid, he will also never be as good looking

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

McDavid has quickly elevated himself to be, in my opinion, the best player in the world. I'm impressed with the speed at which he is able to do everything; it's certainly something that sets him apart from the rest of the field. Some might argue that Crosby is still king, but even they would have to admit that the time is coming when McDavid will take the crown.

I've said this before, but as a Leaf fan, there was a time I was disappointed that we didn't get McDavid. However, getting Matthews has switched my thinking from "what could have been" to "what could be" for the Leafs. I don't look over the fence and think the grass is that much greener on the other side, and am ecstatic with the pieces we currently have.

I don't understand why people would be offended by comparisons between these two players though. When you are seen as the best, there is bound to be comparisons made to other players. Suggesting that Matthews is so far beneath McDavid that they should never be uttered in the same sentence is a silly notion.

 

[pigpen65]

If it means getting Toronto to shell out the same contract, hell yeah Matthews is as good as McDavid. ****, he's better even. Lets get it to $15mil. And on that same note, Marner and Nylander are both twice as good as Drai too.

 

[karnige]

Matthews is elite. mcdavid is generational. reality. sorry.

 

[Future GOAT]

I dont think it's farfetched to say Matthews has a chance to reach the same tier as McDavid.

It's only been one season though, consistency is a skill and we'll have to wait and see where he goes from here.

Consistency is something that McDavid has got on lock.
Combining the regular season and Playoffs, McDavid has still not gone more than 2 games without a point.

 

[Future GOAT]

That statement made no sense, that goes back to the same dribble that the majority of you Oilers fans are spewing. "McDavid is the best player, no one is on the same level"...hate to break it to ya, he wasn't even your best player in the playoffs.

Drivel*

Just trying to help.

 

[StumpyTown]

Just a note...
Speculation: McDavid in his rookie year was on pace to score about 85 to 87 points.
Matthews pulled off 69. It's 15-20 point difference between them in rookie years.
Tell me again how Matthews is as good as McDavid.

 

[Narow]

He will never have as many assists as McDavid will if both play the same games. This one is almost as sure a thing that I know when comparing the 2 players. You do not even have to look at their NHL stats, you can go back to their developmental years. There is nothing to suggest Matthews will touch McDavid as a playmaker.

I think that is the most likely too.

However considering how many chances matthews line created last season it wouldnt be too hard to imagine his assist totals potentially reaching close to mcdavids.

For example at 5v5

Cf/60

Matthews 62.22
Mcdavid 60.64

So potentially he could have had more this season allready. Obviously it remains to be seen if matthews can do it against top competition (to the same degree) as mcdavid.

Both had high ozone starts

Mcdavid 36.1%
Matthews 40.7%

So potential is there at least.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

I also remember when Luke Schenn was the best shutdown defenceman and hitter in the entire NHL.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I also remember when Luke Schenn was the best shutdown defenceman and hitter in the entire NHL.

I remember when you complained about this thread going on for too long
Once again, you have no awareness

 

[ACC1224]

I also remember when Luke Schenn was the best shutdown defenceman and hitter in the entire NHL.

Was that in the same thread that compared JVR to Crosby? Let's see it.

I remember when you complained about this thread going on for too long
Once again, you have no awareness

Lack of self control is an awful character flaw.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

I remember when you complained about this thread going on for too long
Once again, you have no awareness

You're still posting here? I would have though it boring to stalk me.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You're still posting here? I would have though it boring to stalk me.

It's the same thread buddy
I would have thought it'd be boring to dedicate your name to your favorite player not achieving the record at a skills competition at the all star game a few months ago but here you are

 

[Laineux]

Throughout every level (that's recorded on Eliteprospect) Matthews has played at, he has scored a total amount of 265 goals and 248 assists.

Last year he had 38% more goals than assists.

Now unless Matthews changes as a player to something completely different than he's ever been, he's never going to be anywhere near McDavid in assist totals. Unless he starts having 70+70 seasons.

The standard from Matthews might be 40+40, or 45+45, or 40+35. But he's never going to have a 70 assist season, ever. I would bet my house on that.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

It's the same thread buddy
I would have thought it'd be boring to dedicate your name to your favorite player not achieving the record at a skills competition at the all star game a few months ago but here you are

I'm not your buddy, pal. Sour grapes over your favorite player not being on the same tier as McDavid must be painful no? Why do you keep posting here if it bothers you so much?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think that is the most likely too.

However considering how many chances matthews line created last season it wouldnt be too hard to imagine his assist totals potentially reaching close to mcdavids.

For example at 5v5

Cf/60

Matthews 60.64
Mcdavid 60.64

So potentially he could have had more this season allready. Obviously it remains to be seen if matthews can do it against top competition (to the same degree) as mcdavid.

Both had high ozone starts

Mcdavid 36.1%
Matthews 40.7%

So potential is there at least.

I don't really buy into the high danger zone chances reasoning as an indicator for a player's playmaking skills or for having a higher assist total. There is no much grey area on what this means. Shots on goal leading to a chance does not equal a feathery pass on a stick for a goal or vision that often great playmakers display.

Saying this, I too expect Matthews to even out his goals to assists ratio in time. But it will never be in the same ratio or match McDavid's assists totals. He is in a league of his own in chance generation, vision, and passing ability from what I see from him.

Throughout every level (that's recorded on Eliteprospect) Matthews has played at, he has scored a total amount of 265 goals and 248 assists.

Last year he had 38% more goals than assists.

Now unless Matthews changes as a player to something completely different than he's ever been, he's never going to be anywhere near McDavid in assist totals. Unless he starts having 70+70 seasons.

The standard from Matthews might be 40+40, or 45+45, or 40+35. But he's never going to have a 70 assist season, ever. I would bet my house on that.

This is a great and informative post! One I have been repeating here. Matthews would have to change his game to become as efficient a playmaker as McDavid is. The standard he has set not only in the NHL but in previous league's would not suggest he is capable of challenging McDavid's points totals, given his assists totals. He would have to score 50 and assist on 50 just to reach McDavid's 100 points last season, and this is assuming McDavid is not improving as a player. We know this is far from the case.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I'm not your buddy, pal. Sour grapes over your favorite player not being on the same tier as McDavid must be painful no? Why do you keep posting here if it bothers you so much?

I actually like mcdavid a lot, he's a great toronto kid. Just because I like him and wish him well doesn't mean your response is very mature though

 

[BlueBaron]

Throughout every level (that's recorded on Eliteprospect) Matthews has played at, he has scored a total amount of 265 goals and 248 assists.

Last year he had 38% more goals than assists.

Now unless Matthews changes as a player to something completely different than he's ever been, he's never going to be anywhere near McDavid in assist totals. Unless he starts having 70+70 seasons.

The standard from Matthews might be 40+40, or 45+45, or 40+35. But he's never going to have a 70 assist season, ever. I would bet my house on that.

Yes we keep hearing how McDavid can improve his goal scoring to rival Matthews but how Matthews cannot become a better play maker.

 

[lawrence]

What was mcdavis favourite team ?

Toronto.

If your ignorant you will say that.

However "Toronto boy" mcdavid favourite team wasn't Toronto because during the time he was growing up, that team was garbage.

His favourite team is Pittsburgh because of Crosby.