Why is attendance so bad this year?

[zombie kopitar]

I guess Noah Hanifin is exciting.

Exciting like Jay Bouwmeester was exciting for his first 3/4 seasons



I wasn't aware they raised prices. Results would dictate they should have gone down....I hope sales continue to struggle, just a bit, under principle

Only for the top 1%. The other 99%, wages haven't grown in 30 years vs cost of living increases.

1%'ers concentration of wealth also steadily increased since the 80's.

 

[68 Z-28]

Me and a couple friends ended up going to Saturdays game and sat in 106 for 60something a ticket(plus fees). I remember commenting a couple times how empty it looked.

It makes more sense to me now why they Sharks have been so aggressive with the e-mail and phone call marketing to generate ticket sales this year.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Me and a couple friends ended up going to Saturdays game and sat in 106 for 60something a ticket(plus fees). I remember commenting a couple times how empty it looked.

It makes more sense to me now why they Sharks have been so aggressive with the e-mail and phone call marketing to generate ticket sales this year.

Now that the team looks better, I'd be willing to buy tickets last minute at a cheaper price. Did you buy from Stubhub?

 

[SoftDumpInTheCorner]

There was a Warrior and Stanford football game that night, plus its the ****ing Hurricanes. The Sharks will not see any increase in attendance until they close out the season and hopefully into the playoffs.

 

[OrrNumber4]

This is bull, you just want an excuse to blame the Sharks for everything exclusively. Do you live in the Bay Area?

I did mention the strength of other entertainment options as a reason.

I don't need to live in the bay are a to look up data.

Only for the top 1%. The other 99%, wages haven't grown in 30 years vs cost of living increases.

You cannot start the conversation talking about short-term local price increases and then talk about wages using long-term nationwide data.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I did mention the strength of other entertainment options as a reason.

I don't need to live in the bay are a to look up data.



You cannot start the conversation talking about short-term local price increases and then talk about wages using long-term nationwide data.

Yeah, because data trumps the experience of actual human beings living in the area. Listen to yourself.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Yeah, because data trumps the experience of actual human beings living in the area. Listen to yourself.

In a conversation about charity and welfare, sure. But in terms of a discussion of capital inflows and spending habits?...

 

[Painful Quandary]

In a conversation about charity and welfare, sure. But in terms of a discussion of capital inflows and spending habits?...

Wages matter more than capital inflows as far as disposable income goes. Demand creates supply. And if necessities such as rent eat up the majority of most people's income, things such as entertainment take a hit (or people just go into debt).

 

[Juxtaposer]

In a conversation about charity and welfare, sure. But in terms of a discussion of capital inflows and spending habits?...

Bay Area resident: "Housing costs are going up too high compared to wages for non-billionaires, so I no longer feel I have the disposable income to attend hockey games."

OrrNumber4: "Well actually if you look at this data, you shouldn't feel that way! Of course you have the money!"

 

[ChubbChubby]

Now all I need to do is find all this money I apparently have in excess and I'll be good to go.

 

[hohosaregood]

I might speculate that a lot of the new tech money influx is going to people with no hockey fandom. Lots of people moving to the Peninsula and SF who just move there cuz it's SF and it's trendy.

I never buy tickets at face value myself and usually go off stubhub so I can't really say much about the prices but if they're going up then I can see why people wouldn't go just because of a $10 difference. $40 ain't too bad but $50 feels like a lot.

 

[CanadienShark]

Bay Area resident: "Housing costs are going up too high compared to wages for non-billionaires, so I no longer feel I have the disposable income to attend hockey games."

OrrNumber4: "Well actually if you look at this data, you shouldn't feel that way! Of course you have the money!"

Using aggregate, non-specific data obviously paints a much different picture than looking at income distribution between more specific areas/people/gender/ages/etc. As an economics student, that's what bothers me about the subject - too many people forget about individuals and their personal welfare and just focus on the whole entity.

Orr is focused on a much too simplistic view. When you get into the details behind the numbers (I've done zero research, just speculating), I'm assuming it's more in line with your side.

 

[hockeyball]

Bay Area resident: "Housing costs are going up too high compared to wages for non-billionaires, so I no longer feel I have the disposable income to attend hockey games."

OrrNumber4: "Well actually if you look at this data, you shouldn't feel that way! Of course you have the money!"

Moving to Reno solved both for me. Housing is cheap, and I can't go to hockey games anymore either...

bleh!

 

[weastern bias]

Bay Area resident: "Housing costs are going up too high compared to wages for non-billionaires, so I no longer feel I have the disposable income to attend hockey games."

OrrNumber4: "Well actually if you look at this data, you shouldn't feel that way! Of course you have the money!"

This

Income figures are skyrocketing disproportionately in particular fields, enough so that it skews the raw averages

However people who work outside of tech/analysis/data mining/like industries are basically where they've been for 10-15 years now

 

[OrrNumber4]

Let me make it as simple as possible:

If it were truly a majority about wages and costs, entertainment spending overall would be down. That is how a general effect would work.

The fact that other entertainment fields, even sports, are churning along just fine suggests it is something inherent to the Shark's product. I would also add the trendmendous recent success of other Bay Area sports teams as a reason.

 

[ChompChomp]

In 93-94, they made the playoffs. In 94-95, they made it again. In 95-96, they missed the playoffs.

What was attendance like to open the 96-97? Was there a dip too, having followed a season of missing the playoffs? Or was there another dynamic in play then?

My point is, it's likely nothing more than a dip due to missing the playoffs last season.

 

[Ninja Hertl]

Let me make it as simple as possible:

If it were truly a majority about wages and costs, entertainment spending overall would be down. That is how a general effect would work.

The fact that other entertainment fields, even sports, are churning along just fine suggests it is something inherent to the Shark's product. I would also add the trendmendous recent success of other Bay Area sports teams as a reason.

Want to back this up with some data?

From last year: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...rs-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

What gains have been made, have gone to the upper income brackets. Since 2000, usual weekly wages have fallen 3.7% (in real terms) among workers in the lowest tenth of the earnings distribution, and 3% among the lowest quarter. But among people near the top of the distribution, real wages have risen 9.7%.

From August: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/04/economist-explains-12

Yet firms in America seem not to have got the message. Inflation-adjusted wages for typical workers are stagnant. In fact, they have barely grown in the past five years; average hourly earnings rose 2% year-on-year in February of 2015: about the same as in February of 2010.

Now compare this with % increase in things people spend money on, like rent: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...inflation-experts-say-its-going-to-get-worse/

The average U.S. rent has climbed 14 percent to $1,124 since 2010, according to commercial property tracker Reis Inc. That’s four percentage points faster than inflation,

As someone who lived in the Sunset District of SF in 2008-2009, the prices on some rental properties have gone up 100%. 100%. This has happened in the South Bay as well... where $1800 a month will get you a barely decent 1 bedroom apartment in Campbell/San Jose.

If you have something to illustrate 'general effects', please inform.

 

[Ninja Hertl]

Let me make it as simple as possible:

If it were truly a majority about wages and costs, entertainment spending overall would be down. That is how a general effect would work.

The fact that other entertainment fields, even sports, are churning along just fine suggests it is something inherent to the Shark's product. I would also add the trendmendous recent success of other Bay Area sports teams as a reason.

I do agree that the Sharks' level of sucktitude last year affected ticket sales, which also adds more to the theory that people just don't have that much money to throw around. People can't afford to keep spending money (increasing every season) on a sub-par product because of environmental factors.

 

[Levie]

I believe I read the median price for a 2 bedroom apartment in SF was $5,000.00/mo how can anyone say that everyone's wages have risen to that level.

Even in the neighboring regions prices have gotten crazy. 1.5 years ago I was looking at a 1 bedroom for $1350.00 (which is pretty expensive on its own) in Sonoma County. They exact same complex right now is charging $1950.00 for that same room. As a fairly recently graduated person there's no way to afford a one bedroom apartment on your own here, and it's not anywhere near as bad as it is in SF. Most entry level college required jobs around here are paying around $15.00-$19.00/hr here. I was fortunate to have connections but without it I would be living at home.

 

[68 Z-28]

Now that the team looks better, I'd be willing to buy tickets last minute at a cheaper price. Did you buy from Stubhub?

yes, seat geek is another place to check.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Bay Area resident: "Housing costs are going up too high compared to wages for non-billionaires, so I no longer feel I have the disposable income to attend hockey games."

OrrNumber4: "Well actually if you look at this data, you shouldn't feel that way! Of course you have the money!"

Orr isn't saying you *personally* have the money, but he is saying someone somewhere in the Bay Area does. And he's right. A lot of someones do.

*I* can't afford to spend $3,750/seat + $80k for a seat license (+$11/beer) for 10 crummy football games per year.....but clearly some someone can, and is.

And that is really all that the sports franchise owners care about. Are there 17.5k fans (or 19k, or 42k, or 70k, or whatever) who are willing to shell out what they are asking for. And there are. That's why you can demand seat license payments that cost more than a new car. And then on top of that charge even more for admittance to special elite clubs.

Jed York, Hasso Plattner, et al, aren't concerned about whether or not it's affordable for most fans. Frankly, they probably don't want it to be affordable to most fans. They would lose a lot of money if they made club level tickets affordable for most fans. So long as there are millionaires and billionaires in Silicon Valley who are willing to pay for those seats and those special stadium clubs, your personal ability to afford an upper deck seat is barely a consideration.

They only need to find 17k+ who can afford it each night. Even that isn't necessary. The Sharks can actually be MORE profitable at around 16k+ in attendance. More profitable to raise ticket have 16,500 who are willing to pay $80/ticket than to get 17,500 who are only paying $75/ticket

 

[SJGoalie32]

I believe I read the median price for a 2 bedroom apartment in SF was $5,000.00/mo how can anyone say that everyone's wages have risen to that level.

He's not saying everyone's wages have risen to that level, but enough people's wages HAVE risen such that the median price of a 2-BR apartment can be $5k/month. If nobody could afford it, prices wouldn't be that high. But enough people CAN afford $5k for rent on a 2 BR apt in SF that it is now the median.

Same holds for the local sporting scene. If nobody could afford anything after housing, the Warriors wouldn't be selling 19k tickets to every game this year. If nobody could afford anything after housing, you wouldn't see even 16k fans in San Jose show up to a weeknight hockey game between 2 teams that missed the playoffs last year.

No, not everyone's wages....but enough that 16k people were willing to pay more than last year to attend a game against the Hurricanes.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Want to back this up with some data?

From last year: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...rs-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/



From August: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/04/economist-explains-12

National averages don't accurately reflect what's going on in micro-economies like the Bay Area.

What's happening to wages in Des Moines has no bearing on what is going on here with Google, Apple, Tesla, Facebook, Oracle, Cisco, Symantec....etc.

Yes, national wages have stagnated. But the wages of young tech workers here have clearly gone up. Those people have the money to pay more for housing in SF, Peninsula, South Bay. Those people have the money to pay more for sporting entertainment options.

If you and 9 of your neighbors can't afford $5k/month in rent, but 10 new tech workers can....your landlord won't care. He'll take the people who have higher wages and can pay the higher rent, regardless of whether you personally (or some average person in Cleveland) are earning higher wages or not.

Same goes for Plattner, York, Baer, Davis, Wolffe, and Lacoub. Maybe you can't afford to pay 10% more for tickets. But they're betting someone here can, and will. And for the most part, they are right. 16k+ are still willing to pay big bucks to watch a mediocre Sharks team on a weeknight in October. If you can afford it, they'll gladly take your money. If you can't afford it, they'd rather take the money of your more affluent neighbors.


Wages and housing prices really haven't changed much in the last year or two since the Sharks were selling out every game. What has changed is that, for the first time in a decade, the Sharks weren't a playoff team. And their prospects for this season aren't significantly higher. Combine that with entertainment dollar competition from a reigning NBA championship team, and there is your attendance drop-off. If the Sharks had advanced to the WCF last year, the disposable income would magically be there.

 

[hohosaregood]

Declining attendance:first step to a franchise being sold and moved.

 

[LeeIFBB]

The GM is a greased up and bronzed moron.