Why does Canucks player development suck so much?

[Balls Mahoney]

I was just reading through a thread in the NHL forum talking about what team's have the most of their 1st round picks playing for them. With trading Kesler, the only 1st round picks we have playing on this team are the Sedins and quasi-Jensen. That's absolutely pathetic.

None of our draft picks from the last three years have played a NHL game, only 37 total NHL games have been played from our picks in the last five years. And only 92 total in the last seven years. In the last seven years this team hasn't been able to develop one of it's picks into a full time NHL player. Thank goodness for the signing of Chris Tanev or this would be even more laughable.

We are by far the worse team in the league at developing NHLers and this was the biggest failure of the Gillis Administration.

This has been a problem through the organization's history but was alleviated for awhile when we had a quasi-NHL team in the Moose developing and churning out young prospects for the team. But since the Canucks shifted around affiliates and largely seem to have no idea what they're doing, the pipeline of good surprisingly undrafted prospects has dried up.

I know Canucks fans are excited about all our draft picks but if they aren't being developed properly and won't make an impact, I fail to see what it accomplishes other than hindering young promising careers.

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[Patchey*]

It should be better now that we own the Utica Comets

 

[jigsaw99]

cause our drafting sucks

 

[RealGudbranson]

I hope gillis' final parting gift, stability in Utica, will improve development. Moving from Manitoba to Chicago to Utica with the carousel of coaches and motivations (Chicago overplaying veterans) contributed to our woeful futures. Solid control of our prospects in Utica, extra practice time, as well as fan support all should help shinkaruk, gaunce, etc develop.

 

[Ryp37]

A combination of poor drafting, trading draft picks leading to a lower total amount of picks than most teams, and low picks. The team stayed competive through trades and signings the past while and it's catching up to them. Luckily Gillis realized this a few years into his regime and prioritized keeping picks and setting up a good farm system in Utica which should reap some benefit sooner than later

 

[LiquidSnake]

One thing (IMO) is then insisting not to plug in rookies immediately after being drafted.

We saw this with Luc Bourdon and Cody Hodgson.

Both looked ready and had a legitimate shot at competing and weren't given shots.

I believe Nonis said at the time he didn't want to waste a year of ELC deal on the bottom pairing for Bourdon. Which is ridiculous. The obsession of "getting more minutes" in a worse league at some point needs to stop.

And Gillis has carried on that mighty tradition with Hodgson and not giving Shinkaruk even 8 games last season despite the fact they were one of the worst offensive teams.

 

[Caspian]

One thing (IMO) is then insisting not to plug in rookies immediately after being drafted.

We saw this with Luc Bourdon and Cody Hodgson.

Both looked ready and had a legitimate shot at competing and weren't given shots.

I believe Nonis said at the time he didn't want to waste a year of ELC deal on the bottom pairing for Bourdon. Which is ridiculous. The obsession of "getting more minutes" in a worse league at some point needs to stop.

And Gillis has carried on that mighty tradition with Hodgson and not giving Shinkaruk even 8 games last season despite the fact they were one of the worst offensive teams.

Bourdon and Hodgson did nothing in their first AHL season to show they belonged on the NHL roster.

Hodgson was ruined due to his own poor work ethic and an unlucky back injury.

Bourdon lacked hockey sense and suffered a bad ankle injury. Not a defenseman worth rushing.

 

[LiquidSnake]

Bourdon and Hodgson did nothing in their first AHL season to show they belonged on the NHL roster.

Hodgson was ruined due to his own poor work ethic and an unlucky back injury.

Bourdon lacked hockey sense and suffered a bad ankle injury. Not a defenseman worth rushing.

They didn't play in the AHL after they didn't make their first season so I have no idea what the hell that has to do with anything.

Both were damaged goods by the time they were in the AHL. Bourdon with screws in his ankle and Hodgson with an ailing back.

 

[ugghhh]

This is just looking at one fact and making a quick judgment without looking at the bigger picture.

Looking at just 1st round picks:

2003: Kesler -- great pick, great development
2004: Schneider -- great pick, great development
2005: Bourdon -- can't rate this one (thought it was a good pick, though)
2006: Grabner -- good pick, so/so development (I think they could have done better)
2007: White -- bad pick, no chance for development
2008: Hodgson -- good pick, good development (injury was out of Canucks control, questionable handling of injury by AV..but otherwise, they brought him along well)

2009: Schroeder -- I don't know what went wrong here. I thought it was a great pick at the time, and obviously you think the Canucks could do better with development..but it's hard to blame the teams player development here

2010: No 1st round pick

2011: Jensen -- good pick, coming along pretty well. Should fight for an NHL spot.

2012: Gaunce -- hasn't even entered the Canucks program, development hasn't been great, but it's hard to tell with a player like him how he will adapt to the NHL

2013: Horvat + Shinkaruk -- too young to judge

Hard to blame player development on any of those.

The real problem is that the only thing we have to show from the 2005-2010 drafts at this point are Zack Kassian (from the Cody Hodgson trade).

Losing Raymond, and the Ballard trade (losing grabner and our 2010 1st), failing to develop Shirokov (who could have been a decent top-6 player, imo), and a bunch of misses from 2006-2010 is what hurts us.

Let's hope the 2011-2014 drafts turn out better.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

With that said though, the Canucks deserve a bit of a break, as if not for tragedy Bourdon would probably be on the team, and under different circumstances Hodgson may be as well.

But yeah. That 2009 draft was considered brilliant by all the experts here, yet we got zilch from it, and in 2010 we had no picks. That is pretty crippling.

 

[NoShowWilly]

a problem has been drafting older players that are "professional ready"

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

They didn't play in the AHL after they didn't make their first season so I have no idea what the hell that has to do with anything.

Both were damaged goods by the time they were in the AHL. Bourdon with screws in his ankle and Hodgson with an ailing back.

All the more reason to let them recover inn the AHL.

 

[Robert604strom]

Like someone said before me ,we did not have a steady Ahl team. We traded most of our picks,2nd rounders,3rd or 4th rounders. And if you could never tell usually it takes 2-3 years or in red wing ways of thing 3-5 years and than they are bonefide players. Lets wait and see how gaunce,jensen do this year.

 

[canucksfan]

From 2005 to 2010 the picks after the 3rd round and including it are very poor.

Not sure about 2011 and 2012 because I don't follow prospects that much

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

The other thing is that when the canucks do take it slow and develop players slowly, people on here go *******. Zack Kassian is the perfect example of this. He's still only 23 and is being brought along very slowly, giving him more minutes as he develops his defensive game and letting him build confidence. He is being developed beautifully, and I think we will really get a good player out of it. So of course the posters on here think the Canucks are imbeciles for not just chucking him on the first line and playing him 25 minutes a game. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[ddawg1950]

I think Gillis was. The first GM we had who even gave a crap about development. The system he set up will be improved upon, hopefully, by the new regime. We finally have some decent prospects in the pipeline, but it will be another two/three years before we see how they are brought along.

 

[The Optimist]

This thread is ridiculous because of its extreme bias. It just simply ignores the fact that Hodgson was traded for Kassian, Schneider for Horvat and the Bourdon tragedy. Pretty useless analysis of first rounders if you ignore 3 of them in recent history.

 

[Rex Banner]

Having a Canucks owned farm team is going to help a lot. Our prospects can get a much better chance playing big minutes instead of being buried behind career AHLers. Also emulating how the Red Wings use the same system in both leagues can be very beneficial for players making the jump.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Having a Canucks owned farm team is going to help a lot. Our prospects can get a much better chance playing big minutes instead of being buried behind career AHLers. Also emulating how the Red Wings use the same system in both leagues can be very beneficial for players making the jump.

yeah this is a big deal.

 

[LiquidSnake]

All the more reason to let them recover inn the AHL.

The point wasn't AHL. They were healthy at the end of the preseason BEFORE they were sent down.

 

[stuffradio]

It is because we kept trading our draft picks to try and win the Stanley cup. That strategy failed, and now we are paying for it, but we are slowly making up for it now.

 

[canucksfan]

This thread is ridiculous because of its extreme bias. It just simply ignores the fact that Hodgson was traded for Kassian, Schneider for Horvat and the Bourdon tragedy. Pretty useless analysis of first rounders if you ignore 3 of them in recent history.

Bourdon might not be playing in the NHL if he didn't die.

 

[The Optimist]

Bourdon might not be playing in the NHL if he didn't die.

It doesn't matter. You can't complain about the Canucks not developing first round players when 1 of them died before getting a chance.

Another 2 (Hodgon and Schneider) were traded for other prospects. Another was traded for a top dman (Ballard) and other first round pick was included in that deal.

If you want to discuss the Canucks trading too much first round talent - fine. But to claim that the Canucks can't develop it is ridiculous.

 

[Iridescent*]

Aside from our scouting staff being just awful?

We were a cup contending team with a very unique cap structure. Going back to the Sundin signing, our team was a legit threat in the west. Some teams when they are trying to win love having an ELC or two on the team to free up cap which they dump onto a big name FA vet. We went in a different direction.

With Gillis and Gilman, we pulled some serious wizardry with the cap. We'd front load deals, get home town discounts, set internal player caps, look for moneypuck'y' advanced stat players at bargains, and used some cap-tactics to be over almost every year. That is the direction we went, and well, we had the most successful era in our team's history. Weren't able to bring it home though, which totally sucks.

 

[canucksfan]

It doesn't matter. You can't complain about the Canucks not developing first round players when 1 of them died before getting a chance.

Another 2 (Hodgon and Schneider) were traded for other prospects. Another was traded for a top dman (Ballard) and other first round pick was included in that deal.

If you want to discuss the Canucks trading too much first round talent - fine. But to claim that the Canucks can't develop it is ridiculous.

I agree with your view point. I thought you were assuming if Luc didn't die he would be in the NHL.

I think it is more about the drafting. The 2004 draft was excellent. Hansen, Edler and Brown were after the 2nd round and all contributing with NHL teams. After that though, from 2005-2010, 2nd round and after only Mason Raymond has turned out. The rest haven't done anything at the NHL level.