Why do we hate all our coaches?

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Beacon, Apr 12, 2018.

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  1. Tawnos

    Tawnos A guy with a bass

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    It’s incredibly easy to say you’d do this or that when you have no personal relationship with the players, no plan you are committed to follow, no direct experiences with the team, and no direct personal stake in what happens with the team.

    The job isn’t an easy one.

    And 95% of you would play Glass too, in AVs place.
     
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  2. GeorgeKaplan

    GeorgeKaplan Registered User

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    Even going beyond that series, I probably would've put Yandle on the first power play unit a lot faster than half way through his second season here. But who knows, some 'Coyotes beat writer' on the main boards told me Yandle is a worse choice than McDonagh on the power play because he's bad at defense
     
  3. Bob Richards

    Bob Richards Mr. Mojo Risin'

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    Coaches wear out their welcome whether it is justified or not.

    Look at the Quenneville threads on Chicago's board from the past year. This is a guy who almost has as many Cups as our entire franchise.
     
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  4. All Might

    All Might Save Us

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    Oh man. Just took a look. It's like he's Antichrist himself.
     
  5. SingnBluesOnBroadway

    SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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  6. Inferno

    Inferno Registered User

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  7. Miamipuck

    Miamipuck Al Swearengen

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    Some of you guys are writing a thesis, the correct is answer to why we hate all of the Rangers coaches is : Why not?
     
  8. NYR

    NYR Registered User

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    I don't hate all coaches.
    What I do hate is incompetence.

    Those that are able adjust to the changing times and more importantly, adjust to the game in front of them are the ones that succeed.

    Those that do not (AV) because they're too stubborn and think they own the hockey world because they've had some level of success are doomed for failure.

    It's all about counter and attack.

    If you don't have the personnel then adjust your system accordingly to maximize their strengths..

    There are only 12 notes on a guitar and there's even less systems.
    Depending on how you use them, either you can rock it or you can't..
     
  9. Phoicon

    Phoicon Take these broken wings and learn to fly again.

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    Confession: I actually liked Tortorella.

    I have heard that he may have done some unsavoury things (perhaps outlined in Avery's autobiography) but I don't know the details of what he did. When he came to the league with Tampa, he was a very offensive-minded coach so one could say he adapted to the circumstances in New York.

    He had players like Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi and Avery to start with. And he moulded a team out of them. If anything, he was undone by his assistant not figuring out our powerplay, cough, cough.

    In regards to AV, I think the word "hate" paints a picture of us emotionally disliking him for no reason. When the truth is that most people have gotten tired of seeing the following the past 2 years:



    Even prior to this season I thought Vigneault could salvage his reputation and become one of the top coaches in the league by simply adjusting, I mean what was Ruff here for, if not to help AV to adjust?

    I still don't understand what Ruff did for us this season and why he is with our organisation. Not that I dislike him. But what was Lindy up to here? AV clearly decided to go forward with his own offensive and defensive schemes and ignore any alternatives. That was a disaster. He was fine the first 2 seasons here though. Just the game moved forward and he got figured out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  10. haohmaru

    haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    And look who's in the playoffs now and look who isn't.

    Torts has his ups and downs when he opens his yap to the media but it's hard to dispute that the guy is a good coach and AV inherited, and was successful with, a Torts team that got worse and worse as it was chipped away at.
     
  11. Dr Chin Richalds

    Dr Chin Richalds RIP John Amirante

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    A lot of revisionist history in here about Torts.

    I thought he was a good coach too, but the dude rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. His act had worn very thin by the time he was canned. Maybe he has matured a bit and learned to keep it a bit more under wraps in Columbus.

    Polar opposite of AV. Brutally honest and passionate to a fault, whereas AV was bland, agreeable, and never said a bad word about the team, even when they deserved in in the worst way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  12. Phoicon

    Phoicon Take these broken wings and learn to fly again.

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    The difference between AV’s and Torts’ teams was visible last night: Columbus goes down 2:0 and comes back to win 4:3 - with AV it felt like when games mattered when we went down we stayed down.

    No grit (I don’t mean toughness). We used to have that.
     
  13. mandiblesofdoom

    mandiblesofdoom Registered User

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    why do we hate the coach?

    First of all I don't hate the coach. I get frustrated at the coach.

    Second, hockey is supposed to be fun. I wanna see my guys do well and make nifty plays and get the contested pucks and win. It's not fun if they fail & the coaching appears to be the reason.

    Three, with AV, his flaws were so obvious. Playing sub-par talent when he had better available. Sticking with a system that didn't work. With that mismanagement hockey becomes no fun. I don't hate AV, but I'm glad he's gone.

    Fourth, the scene around the Rangers contributes to the dissatisfaction. AV's failings were obvious, but he never got called on them by any reporter or broadcaster. Well, maybe by TV guys from other teams. Now that he's out, Larry Brooks feels free to mention that we gave up a ton of golden opportunities. Thanks, Lar.

    AV's fourth line 2013-2014 was so good. And then he went for Glass and next McLeod. Anyone with a memory could see what we were missing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  14. Phoicon

    Phoicon Take these broken wings and learn to fly again.

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    The point is not to evaluate Torts, the point is we do not just hate coaches for no reason.

    People are just giving quick, slightly vague takes to show that even on a gut level hate is not how most fans feel. At least that is what I am doing.
     
  15. Off Sides

    Off Sides Registered User

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    I don't hate coaches, I just do not weigh player traits the same as most coaches do. If any coach puts the most talented roster they can on the ice, and deal out the minutes/lines in some fashion that makes some sense, I really would not disagree with that coach often. In such a case they played the cards they were dealt.

    It's the other stuff that happens, where they pick favorite players, or when they start thinking hey if we were only a little tougher, or more energetic things would be going better. That stuff works in very small doses, but it's fleeting yet once it starts failing coaching usually sticks with it through that failing. It's a card that should only be played by emergency, not one you really want to play over and over again because most of the time it loses.

    I do not hate management either but I find their choices, including who to hire as coach, and when they extend or fire them, to be more likely to peeve me off. What bothers me most there, they get a pass, if they build a poor roster they just fire the coach or bring in a new player, they can manufacture hope and change where coaching has limited options to do so.
     
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  16. Nopuckluck

    Nopuckluck Registered User

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    Coaches responsibility is to put players in a position to be successful and to gameplan and motivate. Some guys want players to play a certain way even when they don’t have the personnel (AV). Some guys adjust based on the personnel they have (Torts).

    I LOVED TORTS
     
  17. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    I liked Torts. Why he wouldn't coach offense idk and I have no problem with him being fired when he was but I still liked him.

    I liked Renney too.
     
  18. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    In his book Avery is particularly angry over Tortorella's handling of Derek Boogaard. According to Avery when he asked Glen Sather only a handful of Rangers were even planning on attending the funeral--that there was no imperative from the coaching staff and that Tortorella who didn't want Derek on the team was not planning on attending either. Sather basically made sure of the team's attendance but Torts declined citing some kind of knee issue--something like that anyway. Torts was not there though and IMO he should have been. There were a bunch of other issues---those two just did not like each other.

    I like Avery a lot--FWIW when a coach is getting results you should allow him as much freedom as possible to do the things he needs to get those results--and Tortorella got very good results for us for the most part. After the first couple angry press conferences those things got old for me though. I never really understood why all the belligerence with the press. To me he was a good coach--but he had his run and then he kind of lost the team and it was time to go when Sather fired him.
     
  19. Wamsutta

    Wamsutta I'm Glen Sather IRL

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    I don't know much about any off-ice stuff but I liked the Torts years with the team. The last time they had a clear identity was when he was coaching, IMO. And that doesn't mean I'm big into OLD TYME HOCKEY or anything like that - but they had a definitive team plan and they all bought in an executed on it. I don't think we ever saw that under AV.
     
  20. JT Kreider

    JT Kreider FIRE AV

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    And look at what Torts has done with Seth Jones. And Anderson. And Dubois too. Dubois would have been dead in the water with AV as his coach.

    But Jones in particular was extremely raw when he first got traded from Nashville. Yes the tools were all there and maybe it was inevitable that Jones would be a top 10 defensemen in the NHL.

    Waching Jones last night I can't help but be reminded of what Ryan McDonagh was during that 2012 season.
     
  21. Off Sides

    Off Sides Registered User

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    Torts was not so great either, no transition, stretch pass, tip, chase, change, protect the house, they are not good enough to play another way thing came off just as stubborn as what AV was doing.
     
  22. White Plains Batman

    White Plains Batman Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!

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    A lot of what's being said about Torts is total revisionist history. We loved him but everyone here was frustrated with him in 2013. The McD double shift where he took the delay of game penalty in the Caps series put many of us, including myself over the edge, and then when the dressing room thing with Van/Cal happened in early 2014, a lot of us were like thank goodness he doesn't represent our team anymore.

    Great coach and I got to meet him a few days before Gaborik was traded and he was super nice, but it was time to make a change. He coached the Rangers over the course of five seasons.

    He seems a little but more mellow now but it doesn't seem like Gorton and comp would go in that direction.
     
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  23. Nopuckluck

    Nopuckluck Registered User

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    I loved what Torts did in the Vancouver Calgary lockeroom incident. Stood up for one of his guys. Over the top and extreme yes. But I’d rather have that personality than a gum chewing smug moron every time
     
  24. SnowblindNYR

    SnowblindNYR Registered User

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    The 2014 and 2015 teams were infinitely better than the 2012 team. Relatively speaking that 2012 team had mediocre talent.
     
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  25. JT Kreider

    JT Kreider FIRE AV

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    Of course. That 2012 team played their freaking dicks off night in night out every shift of every game though and it says so much that they were able to accomplish just as much as the 2015 team with significantly less talent
     

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