Why do Leaf GM's screw up their tenure right out of the gate?

[Parkdale]

Does anyone else wonder why Fletcher is still on staff as an adviser? Then again so is Nonis.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Gotta love McGuire yelling "let the rebuild begin!!!!". LOL!!

saying Schenn is a franchise player is the biggest laugh of all.

 

[Banic]

The Burke answer is truly hilarious. Not saying he's been good, but not even remotely close to Fletcher and Nonis.

 

[jakeperalta*]

I say Burke calling a two year rebuild then playing boy scout on 'cheater contracts'. How do you rationalized a two year rebuild without going after top UFAs and RFAs?

 

[dirk41]

Would having Dougie Hamilton and a worse version of Kessel really have us 10 years further ahead?
.

A worse version of Kessel is tied for the lead in points, has a 53 FO%. On top of that, he is 4.5 years younger, makes less money, and has three times as many hits.

 

[dirk41]

You honestly think Seguin would be doing what he's doing in DAL here in Toronto if there's no Jamie Benn or Jason Spezza or Nichuskin floating around him?

.

Where was Spezza last year?
Nichuskin has played a grand total of four games this year and barely played with Seguin last year. He was a rookie, anyway. Did his 31 points drive Seguin's top five point finish? I mean of all the excuses in the world.

 

[Wendel17]

saying Schenn is a franchise player is the biggest laugh of all.

Yup. Good ol' Pierre.

 

[hotpaws]

Burke and it's not even close .

took over a bottom end team , trades 2 first a 2nd and a 3rd and then finishes 2nd and 9th worst in the league

we've been paying and will continue to pay for his blunders for years to come

 

[Joey24]

Because lately - Quinn, Ferguson, Fletcher, Burke - they all seem to think they can fix things by making trades or signing the right UFA's.

To me the question is do the Leafs keep hiring GM's who don't believe in rebuilding through the draft OR does/has ownership refused to allow GM's to build through the draft?

How does Quinn get brought into this conversation? At least Quinn put together a competive team that went deep a few times... He was trying to win its what you do when your trying to win. The Nolan injury was unfourtinate and regardless what some may say the keetch trade was a good move at the time

 

[Bomber0104]

The Burke answer is truly hilarious. Not saying he's been good, but not even remotely close to Fletcher and Nonis.

JFJ made mistakes but at least they were made with the right intentions...pushing a perennial playoff team into Cup contention. He knew what he had on his hands, and he knew what the team needed at the appropriate time. He was denied a rebuild.

Contrast that with Burke.

Brian Burke could not even perform the most basic of managerial duties...which is to understand the team and its strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. He did not understand what he had on his hands, and he made horribly risky moves based on a completely wrong assessment.

This team has been set back 5-10 years easily based on the Kessel trade alone and that's not even factoring in all the other horrible trades and draft picks he made that cost us long term.

 

[Erdinger]

Although it goes back into mists of ancient times Jim Gregory was probably the best ever Leafs GM. The guy drafted an amazing group pf players in his tenure but had the biggest ahole NHL owner ever plus the WHA to deal with. Guys like Imlach dealt in a 6 team NHL with protected territories and players who were mere tied serfs

 

[81Reasons]

Is there still supporters?!? LOL. Funny stuff.

Before the cap problem, they spent but they were spending because they thought the players they brought in meant instant PR/marketing buzz - look at the former stars they brought in - Lindros, Joseph etc. etc. - go down the line. Whether it was a trade or UFA, they were players who were past their prime or not their former selves. They did this for two reasons - the PR and the idea that their presence meant a playoff spot.

They have never had ownership which would be willing to sacrifice a few playoff seasons as that what it usually means when you do a major overhaul. Burke tried to sugarcoat his tenure with this crafty term, 're-tool' crap. While he was GM, he made some of the worst deals in recent memory and then JFJ, who supposedly wanted to rebuild, continued this destruction. If GMs come to Toronto, it's because they are willing to take the challenge of building the team quickly, on the fly, and don't mind being pressured to fix things quickly. There's still no trades, #1st rounders or good prospects coming back in trades. There is only a few weeks until the deadline. Buffalo just did a major trade and they're already around last place overall.

The Toronto media keeps parroting the idea that the Leafs ownership is willing to rebuild/blow it up (call it whatever you want) but there's no proof of this yet, at all. It's just a bunch of nonsense. Leaf fans are gullible. That's the only truth.

Sadly I agree....we are hoping with no indication of anything changing. The ONLY reason a true tear down and rebuild is a possibility is the fact that the team has absolutely packed it in (4 wins in 24 games)...for that we should all be thankful because otherwise they may have tried to add to this core.

 

[asdf]

The Burke answer is truly hilarious. Not saying he's been good, but not even remotely close to Fletcher and Nonis.

If we're only looking at the early parts of each GM's tenure, Burke was worse than JFJ and Nonis.

JFJ took over in 2003 and proceeded to load up the team for a run at the Cup. Then the lockout wiped out a year so there wasn't anything to judge him on. It wasn't until after the lockout that he started screwing up and his reputation went downhill. For a good 2 years though, he was looking pretty good. Maybe not great, but not that bad.

Nonis' approval rating was pretty high at the start of his tenure, getting the Leafs into the playoffs for the first time in a decade. He was viewed as the Midas man that came in and quickly cleaned up Burke's mess. Then Clarkson happened.

Burke came in the middle of the of the 08-09 season, so he couldn't really do much until the off-season. Once the off-season started:

- a deal for Kessel, which would have been much better in hindisight, falls apart due to a miscommunication over draft picks. Because fax machines jamming up and owners vetoing trades was so 10 years ago.

- Kubina gets traded for a package that is widely panned. I think too much gets over this trade, but it was not a popular move.

- Komisarek gets signed to a massive contract that he never lives up to. The Beauchemin signing offsets it somewhat though.

- Picks and prospects get traded to acquire the Leafs' 2nd round pick so that an offersheet can be made (or at least threatened) for Kessel.

- Offersheet is never made and instead picks which were greater than offersheet compensation are given up for a Kessel. Picks end up being very high, and this trade will be talked about for generations.


The rest of Burke's tenure was much better (I guess it would have been hard for it not to have been), but that off-season basically defined his time here and he wasn't able to overcome it.

The only one who could come close to starting out their GM tenure in such a bad way was Fletcher 2.0, but even that wasn't as bad.

 

[Jerkini]

Anyone picking Burke was not around when JFJ was the GM.

 

[Erdinger]

Anyone picking Burke was not around when JFJ was the GM.

JFJ was GM to Peddie as Nonis is to Shanahan. Both of them are/were errand boys

 

[81Reasons]

Anyone picking Burke was not around when JFJ was the GM.

100% agree...JFJ traded Rask, then a first round pick to try and correct that mistake. BUT even worse was being so unprepared after the lockout. That was a golden moment in time that I think people here are forgetting. After the lockout salaries were rolled back 24%, and teams could buyout as many bad contracts as they wanted to with no cap implications whatsoever. The Leafs were probably one of only 4 or 5 teams that could've afforded to do this seeing how much they make and how much they were saving based on the salary cap being 48 million (they had a pre cap payroll of 70 Million). There were a ton of great UFA's available and JFJ did nothing

 

[A1LeafNation]

Voted JFJ for bein unprepared for the new NHL and the rask trade.

Nonis ****-ups kickstarted the much needed rebuild. Fletcher didn't do to much detrimental damage as much as Burke and JFJ, but atleast Burke got us tradeable assets.

 

[Tak7]

Anyone picking Burke was not around when JFJ was the GM.

A lot of that has to do with the fact that team is still suffering from mistakes Burke and Nonis made, whereas JFJ mistakes more or less in the past now.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

People realize that JFJ and Fletcher were nothing but puppets for Peddie right? Peddie is the worst thing to happen to this team since Ballard. Everyone remember the Peddie/Fletcher puppet show presser? You could almost see the strings, embarrassing.

 

[Tak7]

People realize that JFJ and Fletcher were nothing but puppets for Peddie right? Peddie is the worst thing to happen to this team since Ballard. Everyone remember the Peddie/Fletcher puppet show presser? You could almost see the strings, embarrassing.

To this day, that remains the most bizarre sports press conference I've ever witnessed. Wasn't Cliff whispering Peddie's speech word for word?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

To this day, that remains the most bizarre sports press conference I've ever witnessed. Wasn't Cliff whispering Peddie's speech word for word?

Hence the puppet comment. To this day, Peddie doesn't get the flak he deserves.

 

[Pilky01]

People realize that JFJ and Fletcher were nothing but puppets for Peddie right? Peddie is the worst thing to happen to this team since Ballard. Everyone remember the Peddie/Fletcher puppet show presser? You could almost see the strings, embarrassing.

Yeah, anybody saying Fletch or JFJ is giving them both WAY too much credit. They were both simply puppets. JFJ was an errand boy and Fletcher was a caretaker. Neither of them had the mandate or the imperative of Burke

And that is to say nothing of the brash and bluster of Burke when he was ushered into town and ordained god's gift to the Maple Leafs.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Nonis: Clarkson signing, Bolland trade, Phaneuf signing, etc.

Burke: Kessel trade, Komisarek signing, etc.

Fletcher: Steen trade, Finger signing, etc.

JFJ: Rask trade, failure to prepare for the new NHL, etc.

These guys wrecked the team before getting their feet wet and spent the rest of their time cleaning up their own messes.

What do all these things have in common? A desperate move or move(s) to make the playoffs right away. Again, I have said this before and I'll say it again when the owners TELL you to do something you do it otherwise you are fired.

 

[Lobstertainment]

To be fair to JFJ, he waited a season before ruining everything forever, he was hired in 2003 so he made the Leetch trade(I'd do it again damnit!) and we went to the 2nd round. then the lockout happened, then he lost Roberts and Nieuwendyk and replaced them with Lindros, Allison, and O'Neil.(1 year deals) Fired Quinn when we missed the playoffs and then ****ed it all up.

That said I voted for him because I truly believe he, far more than any of the other gms damaged this team for years with his trades to "win now" to such a degree that I think we're still recovering from it. Fletcher, Burke and Nonis could have fixed it by now but they also tried to mortgage the future for immediate help and we've been spinning our wheels in the crater left by JFJ for 10 years now.