Why did the Panthers take Ed Jovanovski first overall in 1994?

[19Yzerman19]

That's some impressive research there. I didn't realize Storr was so highly rated that year. Also, was there a lot of hype on Brett Lindros that year? From the articles you dug up, it seems like a lot of teams were interested in him. Was he expected to go higher than 9th? Interesting that neither Smyth nor Friesen was much talked about, yet they were the guys who eventually panned out.

Also, I noticed Friesen had 116 points in his draft year and made the WJC, so why was there not more discussion of him leading up to the draft?

he was thought to be lazy

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That's some impressive research there. I didn't realize Storr was so highly rated that year. Also, was there a lot of hype on Brett Lindros that year? From the articles you dug up, it seems like a lot of teams were interested in him. Was he expected to go higher than 9th? Interesting that neither Smyth nor Friesen was much talked about, yet they were the guys who eventually panned out.

Also, I noticed Friesen had 116 points in his draft year and made the WJC, so why was there not more discussion of him leading up to the draft?

friesen i remember hearing almost nothing about, other than him being unfathomably fast in the WJC. like simon gagne a few years later, probably a guy where size and ability to use his speed and find space in the NHL was a question mark.

smyth was talked about, like wiemer, but i think mobility was a concern with him.

i do remember a lot of commentators saying if lindros had a different last name, he'd have barely been a first rounder, maybe even a second rounder. he had the body but little else; a total mirage guy, or at least a project. you look at bertuzzi as a prospect the year before and bertuzzi was ten times the prospect brett lindros was in terms of wheels, vision, and scoring touch. lindros only looked good in the OHL because he had a man's body. i remember our peewee coach had played with those guys growing up in suburban toronto and he said jason allison was 100% going to be a star. lindros sucked and only got icetime because of his daddy.

O'Neill had pretty decent wheels. Nowhere near his Carolina linemate Kapanen, but he certainly got around a lot better then Tkachuk or Roberts did. Definitely not Gilmour fast though, stylistically Neely was probably the closest but O'Neill never came close to having that physical edge to him.

maybe verbeek?

he was drafted as a gritty playmaking center though, hence the gilmour comparisons. totally changed his style to become a chippy goal scorer in the NHL. i remember him best as a slow as molasses shooter, but i think that might have been after some devastating injuries.

 

[sr edler]

Brett Lindros, who reportedly had made it clear he didn't want to play with Wayne Gretzky.

One can wonder how Gretzky would have felt playing with Brett Lindros.

 

[MS]

Friesen was in the discussion for #1 overall for most of the two seasons prior and was still a consensus top-5 pick heading into the draft. Was very surprising when he dropped to #11 amidst conditioning and work ethic concerns.

Easy to forget how dominant Bonk looked heading into that draft. Scored 42 goals, 87 points, and 208 PIM (!!!) playing in a league against men. Everyone thought he would be a franchise #1 center. But the concerns about his skating played out, and he's now etched into everyone's minds as a big, plodding defensive #2/3 center. And the mean streak he showed at that age just completely disappeared.

Jovanovski came from absolutely nowhere in the 2nd half of the 1993-94 season. OHL rookie who nobody had even heard of when the year started. His was the most meteoric rise to #1 overall in the history of the draft, and something like that will probably never happen again.

 

[CCF]

i just did a little article-digging to try to better remember the discussion leading up to the draft. that was back when i used to follow prospects and the WJC much more closely than i have the opportunity to do now, as an adult with a job and responsibilities. here are a few things i've been able to dig up, starting with a couple of controversies about the draft:


on bonk falling to 3--





on brett lindros (i'd never ever heard about this before, and it's not elabourated; anyone want to chime in?)--





on tivo--



source: http://articles.latimes.com/1994-06-29/sports/sp-9822_1_nhl-draft

another article about not taking bonk because of financial considerations-- http://articles.latimes.com/1994-06-29/sports/sp-9819_1_mighty-ducks



on jamie storr-





jeff o'neill on jason bonsignore--




others on bonsignore--



source: http://articles.courant.com/1994-06-28/sports/9406280439_1_whalers-potvin-jamie-storr


on the wings possibly trading up for storr--




on the bobby orr comparison--




on the nordiques and brett lindros--



source: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1994-06-28/sports/9406270352_1_today-s-nhl-draft-quebec-red-wings


on bonk vs. jovo--




on it being a weak draft (presumably compared to the can't-miss talent at the top of the '90, 91, and '93 drafts)--



source: http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-28/sports/25832604_1_russ-farwell-flyers-gm-jerry-melnyk


on players falling--




on tivo vs. bonk--



source: http://articles.courant.com/1994-06...y-brett-lindros-nhl-central-scouting-services


the one guy i couldn't find anything on was jason wiemer. i remember a lot of the year he was considered #5, behind bonk, o'neill, bonsignore, and storr. another guy who obviously got passed with jovo coming out of nowhere and scouts banking on him continuing to improve at a meteoric rate, and tivo, who most scouts hadn't seen much of previously, having an excellent WJC tournament, outshining everyone else in the draft other than storr in that tournament.

I really enjoyed reading that. Always interesting to take a look at things then and compare it to the now.

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

friesen i remember hearing almost nothing about, other than him being unfathomably fast in the WJC. like simon gagne a few years later, probably a guy where size and ability to use his speed and find space in the NHL was a question mark.

Friesen was in the discussion for #1 overall for most of the two seasons prior and was still a consensus top-5 pick heading into the draft. Was very surprising when he dropped to #11 amidst conditioning and work ethic concerns.

Interesting to see two contrasting statements here. Was Friesen one of those wild cards where nobody knew where he would go?

One can wonder how Gretzky would have felt playing with Brett Lindros.

Why didn't Lindros want to play with Gretzky? Was there a beef between them?

 

[Dissonance]

The Brett Lindros hype that year was insane.

Apparently he refused to play in LA because of "family disdain for Gretzky." He also told Tampa Bay he wouldn't play for them, either. And after Quebec traded away the #9 pick to the Islanders and Lindros got picked, he made sure to let the media know that he would've thrown a big fit if the Nordiques had taken him:

Lindros said if the Nordiques had drafted him he would have refused to come out for an introduction, pull on a Quebec jersey and submit to interviews, these being the customary trappings of the drafting process. His attitude traced to bitterness within his family at the Quebec franchise and its president, Marcel Aubut, dating to 1991, when his brother Eric, the most sought-after player of the decade, was the No. 1 player drafted, by the Nordiques.

All this from a guy who had scored a grand total of 4 goals in the OHL.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Jovanovski came from absolutely nowhere in the 2nd half of the 1993-94 season. OHL rookie who nobody had even heard of when the year started. His was the most meteoric rise to #1 overall in the history of the draft, and something like that will probably never happen again.

i think the closest thing to jovo might be MAF. but even then, people knew who fleury was before the WJC, they just didn't have him pegged as a lottery pick, maybe not even a late first rounder yet. but was jovo even on anyone's sleeper 7th rounder lists? i could be wrong, but i don't think he was even on the radar for the WJC selection camp that year. yeah, it was nuts.

Interesting to see two contrasting statements here. Was Friesen one of those wild cards where nobody knew where he would go?

well i generally didn't follow the draft more than a year in advance, except when guys would make the WJC at 16. so i don't know what was or wasn't said about friesen in his 16 year old year. but i don't remember hearing his name at all as a top five contender when he was 17.

but there's always guys who rise or drop a lot between their 16 and 17 years, as other guys grow or their brains grow into their bodies, or as scouts start to see more of the overseas guys. i remember ashley buckberger, who ended up going in the 2nd round, being talked about as a top five guy for the 1993 draft going into their draft year. alyn mccauley slipped to the 4th round, but he had been talked about as a #1 overall contender (the other early favourite being langkow, i think) in the '95 draft.

 

[Lead Role in a Cage]

i just did a little article-digging to try to better remember the discussion leading up to the draft. that was back when i used to follow prospects and the WJC much more closely than i have the opportunity to do now, as an adult with a job and responsibilities. here are a few things i've been able to dig up, starting with a couple of controversies about the draft:


on bonk falling to 3--





on brett lindros (i'd never ever heard about this before, and it's not elabourated; anyone want to chime in?)--





on tivo--



source: http://articles.latimes.com/1994-06-29/sports/sp-9822_1_nhl-draft

another article about not taking bonk because of financial considerations-- http://articles.latimes.com/1994-06-29/sports/sp-9819_1_mighty-ducks



on jamie storr-





jeff o'neill on jason bonsignore--




others on bonsignore--



source: http://articles.courant.com/1994-06-28/sports/9406280439_1_whalers-potvin-jamie-storr


on the wings possibly trading up for storr--




on the bobby orr comparison--




on the nordiques and brett lindros--



source: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1994-06-28/sports/9406270352_1_today-s-nhl-draft-quebec-red-wings


on bonk vs. jovo--




on it being a weak draft (presumably compared to the can't-miss talent at the top of the '90, 91, and '93 drafts)--



source: http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-28/sports/25832604_1_russ-farwell-flyers-gm-jerry-melnyk


on players falling--




on tivo vs. bonk--



source: http://articles.courant.com/1994-06...y-brett-lindros-nhl-central-scouting-services


the one guy i couldn't find anything on was jason wiemer. i remember a lot of the year he was considered #5, behind bonk, o'neill, bonsignore, and storr. another guy who obviously got passed with jovo coming out of nowhere and scouts banking on him continuing to improve at a meteoric rate, and tivo, who most scouts hadn't seen much of previously, having an excellent WJC tournament, outshining everyone else in the draft other than storr in that tournament.

Thanks a ton for this. It made me smile quite a bit.

Brett Lindros had the nerve to demand not to play with one of, if not, the best ever, before even setting a foot on a NHL rink, while the team that drafted him claimed he was better than the actual Lindros.

A perfect match one might say.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Brett sounds like even more of an ******* than his brother. Refusing to play for the same team as Gretzky because your family doesn't like him? What the hell?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

because of the (eric) lindros trade, the nords had the 9th and 10th picks, similar to the previous year where they got thibault (10th) and deadmarsh (14th). it being a relatively weak draft, they traded 9th (lindros) and ron sutter to the islanders for #12 (wade belak) and uwe krupp. they also threw the #10 (nolan baumgartner), along with todd wariner and garth butcher, into the mats sundin trade, getting back #22 (jeff kealty), landon wilson, and sylvain lefebvre, along with wendel clark, who was the centerpiece.

an interesting pair of moves. neither kealty nor belak amounted to anything, though belak was eventually packaged again, with robyn regehr, for theo fleury. but if we break down the sundin trade as:

sundin > clark (but not by as much as you'd think)
10th > 22nd
warriner > wilson (both disappointing recent first rounders, but warriner was a #4 pick)
butcher's corpse <<< lefebvre

and if you also break down the islanders deal as:

9th >> 12th (but only because of the unwarranted lindros hype)
sutter << krupp

you can see how the nords looked and saw nothing they wanted, then parlayed those two high picks in a weak draft, as well as trading down on a slow-developing prospect and overpaying on wendel clark, to bring in two veteran d-men who would be instrumental to their '96 cup run.

and they had the luxury to throw away the 9th and 10th like that, even though it meant missing out on jeff friesen, because they got two really good pieces the year before... kind of the opposite of how washington fared with their years of double first round picks in the same era. and, funnily enough, that same day, those caps gave up mike ridley to trade up from #16 to #10 and grab baumgartner. and then took valeri kharlamov's son, who never played a single game, with their #15 pick.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Brett sounds like even more of an ******* than his brother. Refusing to play for the same team as Gretzky because your family doesn't like him? What the hell?

my understanding is the two boys might be moving their mouths, but really carl is speaking.

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

The Brett Lindros hype that year was insane.

Apparently he refused to play in LA because of "family disdain for Gretzky." He also told Tampa Bay he wouldn't play for them, either. And after Quebec traded away the #9 pick to the Islanders and Lindros got picked, he made sure to let the media know that he would've thrown a big fit if the Nordiques had taken him:

All this from a guy who had scored a grand total of 4 goals in the OHL.

Wow... this guy was insane.

i think the closest thing to jovo might be MAF. but even then, people knew who fleury was before the WJC, they just didn't have him pegged as a lottery pick, maybe not even a late first rounder yet. but was jovo even on anyone's sleeper 7th rounder lists? i could be wrong, but i don't think he was even on the radar for the WJC selection camp that year. yeah, it was nuts.

Would you compare Jovo's ascension to that of guys like Andrew Ladd, Benoit Pouliot, Kyle Turris, Zach Bogosian, or Ryan Johansen?

I know neither of those guys went first overall but they were all top 5 picks who were relatively unknown a year before the draft.

 

[BraveCanadian]

They felt he was the best pick available for their team

 

[JA]

the best quote, which i can't find but i'm sure many of us remember it, is isles GM don maloney calling brett lindros "the better lindros" after the draft.

i remember a newspaper quoting that and then snarkily pointing out that eric had just scored 44 goals in the NHL, while brett only managed to score 4 in the OHL (albeit in only 15 games, but eric still had easily the higher goals/game average).

It looks like he preferred not to go to Tampa Bay either. I don't think Don Maloney knew what he was doing when he drafted Lindros; the way Brett communicates seems to bring up a lot of red flags. If he were judged by today's scouting standards, I think he would scare away a lot of general managers:

Caught in the shadow; Brett Lindros knows he has to make name for himself: [Final Edition]
Spector, Mark. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 20 Aug 1994: F4.

Eric Lindros hasn't reached Gretzkian proportions in Philadelphia, but he's already casting quite a shadow.

...

"You have to accept it. You can't avoid it -- it's there and the guys know who Eric is. You can't escape it," Brett Lindros said Friday, the second last day of the national junior team tryouts in Red Deer. "Turning it into an advantage or disadvantage is almost impossible, as well."

Lindros, who at six-foot-four, 215 pounds is the same height but 20 pounds lighter than Eric, was the No. 9 pick in the June draft. He was chosen by the New York Islanders, though he may have gone sooner had he had a different surname. "That was possibly the first time it was an advantage. When I said I didn't want to go somewhere, everyone took me seriously. I turned down a lot of teams that wanted to take me higher." The London, Ont.-born Lindros really wanted to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but New York was his "second or third choice."

Whom did Lindros tell not to bother drafting him -- besides the Quebec Nordiques? "I wasn't real keen on L.A., the ownership is kind of shaky. It looks like owner Bruce McNall is going to go to jail. Tampa Bay wasn't my first choice, either. Lightning GM Phil Esposito and my family... He used to own Sault Ste. Marie. Enough said."... The Soo picked Eric in the 1989 Ontario Hockey League draft despite the family's warnings that he would not play for the Greyhounds.

After knee injuries shortened Lindros' last two seasons, Maloney is trying to gauge the 18-year-old's skill level. "He's almost a moving target -- we don't know if he'll be ready to play in September," Maloney said. "Physically, he can step in the league right now and run over people, but I don't think it's in his or our best interest to sign him and have him playing two or three shifts a game... We drafted Brett because he brings a lot of the characteristics that we're lacking right now: leadership and character. Right now, we don't know if he'll end up being a 30- or 40-goal scorer or a 15-goal scorer. But we're looking for who's going to lead this team down the road, and we think he has all the right qualities."

...

After missing the Olympics last year with a knee injury, Lindros would love a shot at helping this Team Canada win its third straight gold at the world juniors. "I was at Eric's in Saskatoon in '91 and it was awesome. Canadian soil, I was 15, and I had my face painted (red and white). It was fun."

Eric will likely be too busy to return the favor should Brett be in Red Deer around New Year's. But he figures to see enough of his baby brother this season. "He sort of expects me to play next year on the Island," Brett said.

This article seems to articulate the kind of strange character Brett was:

OTHER LINDROS SET TO SHINE: [Final Edition]
Cole, Cam. Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 16 Dec 1994: E2.

...

But Brett Lindros... couldn't escape all the Eric baggage if he wanted to. Then again, who said he wanted to? He looks like Eric, hits like Eric, and ever since he signed a three-year, $7.5-million contract with the New York Islanders, makes out at the bank like Eric. What was it, again, that was supposed to be so bad about sharing those bloodlines?

...

Brett Lindros never grew up dreaming of this, never worshipped stars he thought he'd never meet. He missed all that, being Eric's kid brother.

``I didn't even really watch hockey,'' he said Thursday, Day 2 of Team Canada's five-day selection camp for the world junior hockey championship. ``Eric would tell me who he liked and who to watch for, but I didn't have a whole lot of interest in it. I remember watching the Oilers win all the Cups -- Gretzky and all those guys, even Dave Semenko. I've always kind of admired fighters, because it was all I could do at the time.

``But I didn't really look up to anybody . . . and after a while, Eric was going to all these awards and stuff, and I was meeting all these guys, and it was a little hard to look up to them the same way. I've met guys like Wayne Gretzky, I hang out with Paul Coffey every day in the summer -- you realize they're regular guys who just have excellent skills. That takes a little of the awe factor away... In the pre-season, guys would come up to me and say, ``You're not as good as your brother.' I'd say, `Well, neither are you,' '' said Lindros II, grinning... ``Let's face it, Eric could have played in the NHL at 17, he was on Team Canada at 18 -- he's a helluva player,'' said Brett. ``He's in the top three in the NHL, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm bottom echelon right now, trying to work my way up. If and when we're ever actually comparable, that'd be quite a day for me.''

...

``Well, the first practice, I was thinking to myself: ``Geez, what the hell was that?' You know you're a good player, and you know you can do things on the ice, and they just don't happen,'' Lindros said. He's not ever going to have Eric's offensive skills. But he may be tougher.

``Oh, he'll be a good pro,'' said former Nordiques coach-GM Pierre Page, who drafted Eric for Quebec in 1991. ``He's got decent skills, and he's as tough as they come. He'll be as skilled a tough guy as there's been in a while. I mean, I saw Marty McSorley in the minors, and there's no comparison.''

There's that word again. Even Islanders GM Don Maloney made one when he traded up in the draft to steal Lindros ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Maloney said he had just drafted ``the better Lindros.''

Brett grimaced at the recollection. Better at what? ``Nintendo, maybe,'' he said.

Here are two projections of where he could have been drafted:

Wings keeping eyes on Storr; 1994 ENTRY DRAFT: [Final Edition]
Matheson, Jim. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 26 June 1994: E5.

If there are going to be big trades at the NHL draft in beautiful downtown Hartford Tuesday night, Eric Lindros's nasty brother Brett and goalie Jamie Storr, the most-talked about kid since high-schooler Tom Barrasso 11 years ago, are the hottest items.

...

In Lindros's case, he'll probably go from seven to 10, even though his stats are suspect.

And wouldn't it be a juicy twist if Quebec, which gets the ninth and 10th picks, goes for Lindros, then trades Brett just as they did with Eric.

It would be on a much smaller scale but it would be interesting stuff with Brett saying he wants no part of Quebec, either.

The Kings choose seventh, but the Lindros family reportedly isn't all that chummy with Wayne Gretzky or his clan. L.A. could always take Brett and move him, however. So could Tampa at No. 8.

Brett doesn't have anywhere near Eric's talent.

"I think he'll be like Sergio Momesso as a player. I don't think he'll have any higher skill level than that. But I like his belligerence, and you can never underrate that category," said one NHL source.

Brett would be a nice fit for the Rangers. A name and a power forward, with limited offensive skills maybe but brash, like the city. And playing with Mark Messier would help. But it's a longshot.

"With the 26th pick? I don't know about that. And trading up is hard," said general manager Neil Smith.

After top four, field wide open for NHL draft: [MET Edition]
McKenzie, Bob. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 27 June 1994: C9.

...

THE LINDROS FACTOR:

Next to Storr, the one player some teams would pay a premium for is Lindros.

All things being equal, Lindros isn't expected to be taken in the top four picks. After that, though, there may be a team - Philadelphia comes to mind - interested in pitching hard for Lindros.

That No. 5 selection owned by Hartford could be pivotal in both the Storr and Lindros factors.

Edmonton, with No. 6, likes Lindros for itself. Failing that, though, L.A.'s No. 7 pick could be had for any team willing to ante up.

The Kings have some interest in Lindros - his size and strength is just what they need up front - but Wayne Gretzky and Lindros would be like oil and water.

Tampa Bay, at No. 8, has legitimate interest in Lindros, as do San Jose (No. 11) and the Islanders (No. 12).

If he isn't gone between Nos. 5 and 8, he will be by the time the Sharks and/or Isles are finished.

Genes factor in draft; Lindros looks like wild card; family statistics; (Genes factor in NHL draft -- Early): [Final Edition]
Matheson, Jim. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 27 June 1994: D5.

What's in a name? If it's the Sutter family tree, lots. If not, you don't always shake out an NHL player at the draft just because of his roots.

Eric Lindros's baby brother Brett - a 6'4", 215-pound winger - is one of the draft wild cards Tuesday in Hartford.

He could go as highly as No. 6 (the Edmonton Oilers like him) or somewhere in the top 10, even though he doesn't have the stats to back that up.

Why then? Because he may be nastier than Eric and he competes hard.

And he's probably ready to play right now.

...

"I'm always reminded of an old George Jessel story where somebody asked him about his son, who was a maverick, and whether he was disappointed. Georgie laughed and said `well, the apple falls far from the tree,' " said Murray Smith, the Oilers sports psychologist.

"Mind you, there's always a flip side . . . in the Sutters case, I guess the apples fell very close to the tree."

Smith says the study of family trees is a fascinating one.

"Look at the swimming Smiths. . . . To grow up in that family meant you had to be a great swimmer. My daughter's a dancer and her Russian accompanist is a sixth generation classical pianist. You're brought up with those expectations and if it's nurtured, you develop," said Murray Smith.

Smith, who's worked on psychological questionnaires for draft-age kids, says you still have to be wary of the gene pool, however.

"In the interest of a balanced conclusion, I don't think you can draw one. . . . When you're looking to draft players, you judge them as you would any other player; then if you want to look at the brothers and how they jibe, fine," said Smith.

Whatever genetic factor was there with Gretzky and his brothers doesn't automatically equate to NHL success.

The interest was there but Keith, a third-round draft of the Sabres in '85, was too small and Brent, while he played a few games for Tampa last season after being a third-round draft, doesn't have his brother's hands.

Works Cited

Cole, Cam. "OTHER LINDROS SET TO SHINE." Calgary Herald: 0. Dec 16 1994. ProQuest. Web. 10 Nov. 2013 .

Matheson, Jim. "Genes Factor in Draft; Lindros Looks Like Wild Card; Family Statistics; (Genes Factor in NHL Draft -- Early)." Edmonton Journal: 0. Jun 27 1994. ProQuest. Web. 10 Nov. 2013 .

Matheson, Jim. "Wings Keeping Eyes on Storr; 1994 ENTRY DRAFT." Edmonton Journal: 0. Jun 26 1994. ProQuest. Web. 10 Nov. 2013 .

McKenzie, Bob. "After Top Four, Field Wide Open for NHL Draft." Toronto Star: 0. Jun 27 1994. ProQuest. Web. 10 Nov. 2013 .

Spector, Mark. "Caught in the Shadow; Brett Lindros Knows He has to make Name for Himself." Edmonton Journal: 0. Aug 20 1994. ProQuest. Web. 10 Nov. 2013 .

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

I find it interesting that people said in those articles that Brett had leadership skills, yet, all I'm seeing is a spoiled whiner. Not exactly the attributes of a leader if you ask me.

 

[ForsbergForever]

I still don't get why Lindros hated Gretzky...

 

[Hobnobs]

On Clarke saying jovo would be better than Bonk

While this is true he also said that about other big canadians vs smaller players. Just to give the worst one of them all. He projected Eric Daze would be much better than Paul Kariya in a few years.

Good old demented Clarke.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Brett sounds like even more of an ******* than his brother. Refusing to play for the same team as Gretzky because your family doesn't like him? What the hell?

The "family disdain for Gretzky" bit seems a bit odd to me. Was it ever reported that Eric and Wayne didn't get along too?

 

[Killion]

Brett sounds like even more of an ******* than his brother. Refusing to play for the same team as Gretzky because your family doesn't like him? What the hell?

... odd Clan, the Lindros's. Back when Eric was still a tadpole but causing a stir as "the next one" his parents went up to Parry Sound to meet with Bobby's mom & dad seeking advice on how they should nurture both of their boys. Doug Orr replied with "do nothing". Two word answer apparently & didnt bother to expound upon it. Do nothing at all. Let the kids have fun first of all & build character through play. I dont think Bonnie & Carl Lindros' ever quite grasped that concept demanding instead (and instilled in both boys) that the klieg lights be shone on their treasures exclusively, the rest of the cast of players on the stage to be entirely ignored. I can only assume that as Gretzky's light shone brighter, there could well have been some enmity, a certain kind of ugly & unhealthy avaricious jealousy that existed, something Gretzky & his family had been living with since he was about 8yrs old.

 

[Big Phil]

You never know with the Lindros family. Maybe it's true about Gretzky. Maybe it isn't. If they didn't like him very much then that is just a whole other page in the life of that family. They didn't like a lot of things, or places. Bonnie and Carl made one huge error, they made their son bigger than the game. Eric that is. He wasn't bigger than the game at all. He had no right to demand to be traded from Quebec or in the OHL, the Soo. You have a privilege to make all of this money at the NHL level, and if you have to live in a city you may not like at the beginning, then so be it. It beats working in a factory right?

Never liked the attitude either Lindros had. Bonnie and Carl............the Canadian version of the Kardashians.

 

[Dissonance]

Here's a rather odd New York Daily News story from 1997 on the supposed Lindros-Gretzky rift:

WAYNE WRITES OFF LINDROS BAD BLOOD
BY JOHN DELLAPINA / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

FRIDAY, MAY 16, 1997

To this day, a poster of Mark Messier hangs above Eric Lindros' bed in his family's house in Toronto. There is no truth to the rumor that a Wayne Gretzky dart board hangs on the opposite wall.

But it is clear that, if not bad blood, at least some coolness and rivalry has characterized the Gretzky-Lindros relationship that is in stark contrast to the mutual admiration society of the Messier-Lindros relationship.

And, as the story goes, it dates back to when Lindros was a teenager and his parents, realizing they had The Next One on their hands, sought out advice from the family of The Great One on how to deal with the situation. The Lindroses never received a reply, which is said to have perturbed them and created a rift that has never really been bridged. "We did write a letter to the family and we didn't get a response," Lindros' father, Carl, told the Daily News yesterday. "But I'm sure there are people who try to get in touch with us and never do. So, in terms of the story, there is some truth to it. But I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

" Neither would Gretzky, who dismissed the notion that there is anything but mutual respect between him and Lindros and between their families. "I don't know where these things come from," Gretzky said. "It's just fabrication. I don't know Eric's mom, but I've met his dad and he's a very nice guy.

" Carl Lindros similarly downplayed the idea that any bad blood exists between the families. "It's just competitiveness," he said.

It's hard to say what's going on here. The NYDN reporter certainly seems to think there's some sort of coolness between the two camps (and quite a few news outlets in 1994 were under the impression that Brett Lindros refused to play for the Kings). But both Gretzky and Carl Lindros deny it, for whatever that's worth.

 

[sr edler]

Eric would tell me who he liked and who to watch for, but I didn't have a whole lot of interest in it. I remember watching the Oilers win all the Cups -- Gretzky and all those guys, even Dave Semenko. I've always kind of admired fighters, because it was all I could do at the time.

That's kind of sad actually. The guy didn't seem to have a lot of interest in it, unlike Eric, or skill, unlike Eric, but was forced to do it by his family.

my understanding is the two boys might be moving their mouths, but really carl is speaking.

Who was this Carl Lindros guy? Did he have a background in hockey himself?

 

[Big Phil]

Who was this Carl Lindros guy? Did he have a background in hockey himself?

Carl is Eric and Brett's father. He was also Eric's agent for a while and it is widely believed that he and Eric's mother - Bonnie - were behind a lot of the decisions made. Heck, it isn't even a rumour, they wrote a book with Eric in 1991 called Fire and Ice and they try to explain why Quebec is a poor NHL location.

I'm not sure why the Lindros' would be upset if they didn't get a letter back from the Gretzky family in the early 1990s (I would assume Walter and Phyllis then?). Can you imagine the mail that Walter himself would have gotten at the home? There was no email back then. Just a house phone and letters from the mail man. It could easily have gotten lost, or they could have just simply not had time to read them all. You know Carl, you could have given them a call, it isn't as if Walter was anything but a kind person.

 

[Killion]

Who was this Carl Lindros guy? Did he have a background in hockey himself?

Just a regular guy really. Chartered Accountant. Went to the University of Western Ontario in London where he'd played football, drafted 30th overall in like 1970 or something by a CFL team but never did play. His wife & the two boys mother Bonnie a Nurse. Go figure.