Why did the Leafs finish last in pp time?

[Daisy Jane]

Soft, small non physical teams do not tend to draw a lot of penalties.

Its the physical contact and retaliation penalties and hard fought battles on the ice that draw more penalties and get more players involved.

Leafs 3 biggest hitters & physical players in Komarov, Martin and Polak are all gone so I would imagine that Leafs being near the bottom of the PP list will continue.

that is such bumpkis.
tripping, high sticking, interference, etc has nothing to do with being small, or soft, or not physical.

 

[Liminality]

Soft, small non physical teams do not tend to draw a lot of penalties.

Its the physical contact and retaliation penalties and hard fought battles on the ice that draw more penalties and get more players involved.

Leafs 3 biggest hitters & physical players in Komarov, Martin and Polak are all gone so I would imagine that Leafs being near the bottom of the PP list will continue.

You keep saying this but you're wrong about Komarov, Martin and Polak. They don't draw more penalties than the Leafs skilled, "soft" players.

Komarov

2016-17
0.182 penalties drawn per game

2017-18
.092

Martin

2016-17
.261

2017-18
.120

Polak

2016-17
.078

2017-18
.148


Lets look at the Leafs most skilled players

Matthews
2016-17
.261

2017-18
.261

Nylander
2016-17
.08

2017-18
.247

Marner
2016-17
.253

2017-18
.213

Who's also really good at drawing penalties? Tavares

2016-17
.416

2017-18
.256

The closest is Martin and he'd probably have offsetting penalties which doesn't help the Leafs at all anyways.

 

[al secord]

Soft, small non physical teams do not tend to draw a lot of penalties.

Its the physical contact and retaliation penalties and hard fought battles on the ice that draw more penalties and get more players involved.

Leafs 3 biggest hitters & physical players in Komarov, Martin and Polak are all gone, replaced by 5-10 Johnsson, 5-8 Ennis and 5-10 Carrick, who don't intimidate anyone, so I would imagine that Leafs being near the bottom of the PP list will continue.

Kadri tends to draw the most penalties, but he plays with and edge.

The Leafs have been turned into more of a figure skating team than a hockey team, and while watching figure skating I've never seen a lot of penalties called.

I'm embarrassed for having read this right until the end.

 

[Sypher04]

Soft, small non physical teams do not tend to draw a lot of penalties.

Its the physical contact and retaliation penalties and hard fought battles on the ice that draw more penalties and get more players involved.

Leafs 3 biggest hitters & physical players in Komarov, Martin and Polak are all gone, replaced by 5-10 Johnsson, 5-8 Ennis and 5-10 Carrick, who don't intimidate anyone, so I would imagine that Leafs being near the bottom of the PP list will continue.

Kadri tends to draw the most penalties, but he plays with and edge.

The Leafs have been turned into more of a figure skating team than a hockey team, and while watching figure skating I've never seen a lot of penalties called.

For all the penalties we don't get allegedly for not being physical we are blazing fast which should result in a lot more stick infraction calls than we get.

 

[notDatsyuk]

29th in PP opportunities, but 6th in PP goals. Maybe the other teams were too scared of our PP to take penalties.

Also, it's hard to foul what you can't catch?

 

[A1LeafNation]

29th in PP opportunities, but 6th in PP goals. Maybe the other teams were too scared of our PP to take penalties.

Also, it's hard to foul what you can't catch?

Fast teams get the hooking calls and holding calls because the other team cannot catch up.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Im part of the side that wonder if it is because Babcock ran his mouth too much.

Fast skilled teams often get a lot of PP opportunities due to trips/hooks to deny a 2 on 1 or a slash to deny a shot, trip because Marner is so bloody shifty etc. Yet the leafs werent getting any it seemed.

I also looked last year and noticed a lot of the really poor teams on the verge of bankruptcy were near the top in PP opportunities (Ottawa, Arizona etc). Not sure if it ended that way but ya it does seem odd.

 

[Mess]

29th in PP opportunities, but 6th in PP goals. Maybe the other teams were too scared of our PP to take penalties.

Also, it's hard to foul what you can't catch?

Take away the PP and you take away Leafs most dangerous weapon.

Its an easy game plan for opposition coaches to defend, simply play them physically as many Leafs players shy away from contact, and just do not take silly penalties. Very few Leaf players like to play in traffic, nor take the puck hard to the net, or battle in the blue paint, where most the contact occurs to draw penalties, so you allow the Leafs to skate around on the perimeter unobstructed.

At 5v5 the only Leafs line that was effective and dangerous was the Matthews line.. Otherwise the Bozak line and Kadri feasted on the PP.

Hopefully JT makes his ES strength line more effective so that Leafs will not have to rely so heavily on PP opportunities to be competitive.

 

[Liminality]

Take away the PP and you take away Leafs most dangerous weapon.

Its an easy game plan for opposition coaches to defend, simply play them physically as many Leafs players shy away from contact, and just do not take silly penalties. Very few Leaf players like to play in traffic, nor take the puck hard to the net, or battle in the blue paint, where most the contact occurs to draw penalties, so you allow the Leafs to skate around on the perimeter unobstructed.

At 5v5 the only Leafs line that was effective and dangerous was the Matthews line.. Otherwise the Bozak line and Kadri feasted on the PP.

Hopefully JT makes his ES strength line more effective so that Leafs will not have to rely so heavily on PP opportunities to be competitive.

First of all, the Leafs finished 2nd in 5 on 5 goals with 187 behind Tampa who had 196. Second the Leafs finished with 105 points with the 3rd lowest amount of powerplay opportunities, how are they only relying on the PP? Third, you think the Leafs didn't clog up the front of the net? Where do you think most of their shots came from?

 

[moon111]

In the last 10 years on the Leafs, Bozak has 104 PP points, JVR had 88, and Kadri had 86.
As an opposing team, you have to respect the Leafs old guard. But wait... you're now faced with
having to put your 2nd PK unit on against Matthews, Nylander, Marner. Whatever combo of
PP lines the Leaf's played, an opposing team was in major trouble. The reason the Leafs wouldn't
get power-plays is respect.

 

[Pookie]

Oilers play a physical game and they are the only team that drew fewer penalties than the Leafs. The Avs, Penguins, Stars, and Lightning are all soft and were all up there in penalties drawn. So I think we can say that's not it. The only thing that makes sense is that it's all Kadri's fault, even though he drew by far the most penalties on the team. In other words, I don't think it would hurt if you did some research

Didn’t the gentleman in this thread show that Kadri was drawing fewer penalties over the years?

This wasn’t publish as his numbers dipped?
Nazem Kadri may be earning reputation with officials - Sportsnet.ca

Seems you’d rather look for a fight.

Unless I missed your reply to @Liminality , who introduced the hypothesis with data, it’s pretty transparent what you are trying to do.

 

[IPS]

Soft, small non physical teams do not tend to draw a lot of penalties.

Its the physical contact and retaliation penalties and hard fought battles on the ice that draw more penalties and get more players involved.

Leafs 3 biggest hitters & physical players in Komarov, Martin and Polak are all gone, replaced by 5-10 Johnsson, 5-8 Ennis and 5-10 Carrick, who don't intimidate anyone, so I would imagine that Leafs being near the bottom of the PP list will continue.

Kadri tends to draw the most penalties, but he plays with and edge.

The Leafs have been turned into more of a figure skating team than a hockey team, and while watching figure skating I've never seen a lot of penalties called.

If you're going to keep painting your subjective opinion as fact, please respond to the posts countering your points.

 

[IPS]

Take away the PP and you take away Leafs most dangerous weapon.

Its an easy game plan for opposition coaches to defend, simply play them physically as many Leafs players shy away from contact, and just do not take silly penalties. Very few Leaf players like to play in traffic, nor take the puck hard to the net, or battle in the blue paint, where most the contact occurs to draw penalties, so you allow the Leafs to skate around on the perimeter unobstructed.

At 5v5 the only Leafs line that was effective and dangerous was the Matthews line.. Otherwise the Bozak line and Kadri feasted on the PP.

Hopefully JT makes his ES strength line more effective so that Leafs will not have to rely so heavily on PP opportunities to be competitive.

Oh god there he goes again.

You do realize the Leafs were SECOND in even strength goals, right? And wouldn't the PP technically be every team's most dangerous weapon? Who's more dangerous at ES than the PP?

From subjective opinion to provably false nonsense, you're really on a roll in this thread.

 

[Liminality]

Didn’t the gentleman in this thread show that Kadri was drawing fewer penalties over the years?

This wasn’t publish as his numbers dipped?
Nazem Kadri may be earning reputation with officials - Sportsnet.ca

Seems you’d rather look for a fight.

Unless I missed your reply to @Liminality , who introduced the hypothesis with data, it’s pretty transparent what you are trying to do.

I just thought it was interesting, his drawn penalties has gone down but he's still doing the same stuff out there. He's pretty much forcing the refs to call blatant penalties on him and still he draws the most penalties. I think that just goes to show his effort on the ice.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Fast, soft and skilled and yet we don’t get any respect. Such a joke

 

[Brown Dog]

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Didn’t the gentleman in this thread show that Kadri was drawing fewer penalties over the years?

This wasn’t publish as his numbers dipped?
Nazem Kadri may be earning reputation with officials - Sportsnet.ca

Seems you’d rather look for a fight.

Unless I missed your reply to @Liminality , who introduced the hypothesis with data, it’s pretty transparent what you are trying to do.

I don't remember seeing him blaming Kadri for why the leafs powerplay totals are low despite leading the team

 

[81Leafs50]

I did notice that the Leafs were not getting many calls last season. NHL.com shows the Leafs are 3rd last in PP OPP.

LINK

 

[rent free]

it's a combination of not getting a lot of pp opportunities relative to the rest of the league and scoring quicker on their pp opportunities relative to the lest of the league

 

[Commander Clueless]

A proper analysis of why this happens would rely on NHL officiating being reasonably consistent, or at the very least a basic understanding of what is a penalty and what is not.

Since I'm sure most of you gave a sardonic chuckle at that remark, the only proper and well thought out conclusion to this question is: "I dunno cuz reasons sometimes".

 

[Pookie]

I don't remember seeing him blaming Kadri for why the leafs powerplay totals are low despite leading the team

Of course you didn’t.

Leading the team is relative when its dropped off.

Anywhoo, not getting into this with you. Their leading “draw” isn’t able to draw as much based on his rep and they play a soft game overall which doesn’t result in teams getting too worked up playing against them.

Those would help explain the OP.

 

[Notsince67]

Babcock’s not the first coach to complain about officiating so I don’t see that as a variable.

I do think Kadri’s diving history results in a degree of skepticism from the officials on plays involving him.

I’d also argue that we play such a soft game, the opponent doesn’t get riled up when playing against us.

Maybe those two factors explain the variance.

I was just waiting for you to blame Kadri.

 

[thewave]

The more interesting question is... Our pp/pk ratio and time vs US opponents vs Canadian and then again home and away.

Then crack out the tin foil.

 

[Notsince67]

Didn’t the gentleman in this thread show that Kadri was drawing fewer penalties over the years?

This wasn’t publish as his numbers dipped?
Nazem Kadri may be earning reputation with officials - Sportsnet.ca

Seems you’d rather look for a fight.

Unless I missed your reply to @Liminality , who introduced the hypothesis with data, it’s pretty transparent what you are trying to do.

Top line forwards do not get called for a lot of penalties. Maybe you don't think Kadri is aggressive enough

 

[Liminality]

Of course you didn’t.

Leading the team is relative when its dropped off.

Anywhoo, not getting into this with you. Their leading “draw” isn’t able to draw as much based on his rep and they play a soft game overall which doesn’t result in teams getting too worked up playing against them.

Those would help explain the OP.

I didn't blame Kadri for our drop in PP opportunities, don't try and use me for your agenda.

You're also just as wrong as Mess was thinking that the teams with the most PP opportunities are the toughest teams. Did the Leafs play a soft game last year or the year before when they were ranked 11th in PP opportunities and 17th in PP opportunities?