Why did Oilers give up on J. Schultz again?

[HandshakeLine]

The biggest mistake was MacT giving him a 300% raise in his 2nd contract and announcing that he had Norris potential after 1.6 seasons of hockey. 1.6 seasons that actually were trending down for Schultz the whole way and his struggles handling top minutes so early were obvious to everyone except MacT. Instantly, he has an AAV that demands he is played high in the lineup, and he has expectations to be a top guy trying to save a terribly flawed team. It all went how most anyone would expect.

A properly managed team, Schultz gets a ~2M AAV 2 year bridge deal for his 2nd contract, and you can qualify him after that to keep him as a PP specialist that you hope keeps improving his defensive game.

While I think the premise of this is true, I think that contracts around the league for defensemen are pretty prone to inflation and the arbitration definitely skews in favor of offensive defensemen. I'm not sure it would have been entirely possible for MacT to give Schultz a lower rate without going to arbitration.

 

[Bank Shot]

Vancouver was the final runner up for him a few years back.

At the end Vancouver Canucks who a team he was actually following and always talking about during his college years, lost out to Edmonton. Mike gillis did,his best, but did not want to offer a player who was not ready for the NHL, a 1 way contract. He was not ready, they want d him, but didn't think he deserved a one way contract, so,that's why he wasn't very good to even begin with.
.

No one could have given Schultz a one way contract, because he automatically got a two way due to being only eligible for a ELC.

 

[oobga]

While I think the premise of this is true, I think that contracts around the league for defensemen are pretty prone to inflation and the arbitration definitely skews in favor of offensive defensemen. I'm not sure it would have been entirely possible for MacT to give Schultz a lower rate without going to arbitration.

I forget if Schultz had arbitration rights after his ELC, but he didn't pursue it regardless. MacT gave him his jump from 0.925M to 3.65M in late August that summer. Guess we'll never know how the negotiations went, but MacT's ranting after the signing suggested he was Schultz's biggest fan in the world, which didn't really suggest the Oilers were going that hard at protecting their interests.

I honestly think it's one of the oddest contracts I've ever seen. A 1 year deal with a massive raise as a bridge contract.


edit: just checked, he did have arbitration rights. MacT says after the signing that they decided not to go that way because he didn't want to do anything divisive. Which made sense for Schultz, since there were die hard Schultz fans on both sides of the negotiation

 

[Mr Positive]

I forget if Schultz had arbitration rights after his ELC, but he didn't pursue it regardless. MacT gave him his jump from 0.925M to 3.65M in late August that summer. Guess we'll never know how the negotiations went, but MacT's ranting after the signing suggested he was Schultz's biggest fan in the world, which didn't really suggest the Oilers were going that hard at protecting their interests.

I honestly think it's one of the oddest contracts I've ever seen. A 1 year deal with a massive raise as a bridge contract.


edit: just checked, he did have arbitration rights. MacT says after the signing that they decided not to go that way because he didn't want to do anything divisive. Which made sense for Schultz, since there were die hard Schultz fans on both sides of the negotiation

Did Schultz really get only 925k on his ELC? I see he had a nearly 4 million AAV if you included bonuses, and he probably got quite a few of them considering all the points and ice time he got here. And that's all really more to do with the way that we got Schultz. When you poach a high end prospect that the entire league is bidding on, you're going to give up a little more than you really should and we should just consider that to be the cost of business if you are stealing talent, just like if you are signing an offer sheet.

And really, why does the cash matter so much? Who cares if we're overpaying a player a little, especially during a rebuild when cap space isn't scarce? But yes, I'm aware that there is always a segment of fans who make it their business.

 

[oobga]

Did Schultz really get only 925k on his ELC? I see he had a nearly 4 million AAV if you included bonuses, and he probably got quite a few of them considering all the points and ice time he got here. And that's all really more to do with the way that we got Schultz. When you poach a high end prospect that the entire league is bidding on, you're going to give up a little more than you really should and we should just consider that to be the cost of business if you are stealing talent, just like if you are signing an offer sheet.

And really, why does the cash matter so much? Who cares if we're overpaying a player a little, especially during a rebuild when cap space isn't scarce? But yes, I'm aware that there is always a segment of fans who make it their business.

I think he got his max bonuses in year 1, but not year 2. His first season he came out on fire and tailed off in the last month, which wasn't unexpected since he was just coming out of college and played a full season including AHL games. Year 2 he struggled a lot IMO. Eakins played a part in that obviously. I never really got the justification for that big raise, aside from the "potential" that MacT spent 10 minutes ranting about after the contract was signed.

I think the AAV given does matter, and it was a reason Chia felt he had to move on from Schultz in the end. Having to qualify him at 3.6M and the expectation for small raises (3.9M AAV in his last year with the Oilers). That creates a very expensive player that you have to carry along hoping he turns things around if he's struggling. It also creates expectations for where a guy should be playing in the lineup. MacT was careless with a lot of his contracts of course, so Schultz was not special in that respect. He inherited a lot of cap space, and he blew it all in a couple years and ended up with a couple finishes near the bottom of the league again.

 

[lakai17]

He helped the rebuild for Edmonton.

 

[NeverForget06]

Its just like Yakupov, I would be pissed but his poor play here helped the stars align and got us McDavid.

 

[Aerchon]

He was absolutely terrible defensively and slow pathetic offensively his last year and was making 4+ mill a year and was due a raise.

Minus 78 in 240ish games played and literally getting worse every year.

The Oilers gave him too much money, to much responsibility, too much ice time, no support to speak of... and he completely gave up every time he stepped on the ice for them.

Schultz is every bit to blame for his play, as the Oilers, for his reaction to the situation.

I think it's great he is getting his career back on track. Be interesting to see how he continues to develop. I thought he was still terrible defensively last year but he seems at least a bit better this year.

 

[ToastedFlower*]

He just came back and saved pittsburgh. Without his 2 points they dont move on.

Hall and Schultz needed a change of scenery, one its worked out greatly for the other is to be determined but NJ is on the come up.

 

[YakDavid]

He gave up on the team and the fans gave up on him

 

[Bubba88]

He can't Play Defense...

 

[rboomercat90]

He's a front runner that is only as good as his surroundings. Ducks fans saw it when he didn't want to earn a spot there and chased as much money as he could, and oilers fans saw it when he got paid and didn't want to try hard for anything.

Nothing has changed, just circumstances.

We've seen from his past that he does have some character issues. His bailing on Anaheim for financial reasons showed he cared more about money than hockey. Not only did he quit on the Oilers but he was always accused of having poor offseason workout habits.

Now that it appears he may have turned his career back around I'm curious to see what player the team that signs him to his next contract, one that looks like will pay him good dollars for term, gets. Will it be the guys the Pens saw this season? Will it be the guy the Oilers saw who got very comfortable after signing his deal and then wasn't interested in putting much effort in?

There have been lots of players through out history who have disappeared after signing big, long term contracts. They play their butts off in contract years and then aren't willing to put in that same effort again after they get rewarded. It's possible Schultz has seen the light, so to speak now, but his past screams that he's this type of player. Let the buyer beware.

 

[North Cole]

Id agree, if it wasn't for the amount of players bashed and trashed by Edmonton...only to thrive and succeed elsewhere. It's one of the reasons I can't stand Edmonton. Eberle is getting it now. And when he's run out of town, it's on to the next. All with the same narrative...at what awful players they are to have around, etc. Its ALWAYS the players fault. Never the messy system thats only talent is getting "lucky" at the draft. I bet Tyler Seguin drops to his knees thanking God poor Taylor was buried in that hell hole and he was saved.

Justin had a strong pre NHL career...and is, today a valued member of a team that excels at TEAM BUILDING...going into the SCF with another team that has done a masterful job itself.

My problem with Edmonton is the way they treat their players, once they leave...they bash them more.

I look forward to the day when McDavid jumps ship to Toronto..where everyone knows he wants to be. Him and the best young complete player in Matthews would be one fun team.

I'd agree, if you didn't get totally delusional at the end. People said the same garbage about tavares. "Just wait until he leaves back to Toronto where he's from and wants to be"....yeah, he will retire an islander, unless he goes cup chasing like hossa did in the twilight of his career. Players don't leave teams like they used to. This isnt the NBA.

Since you're apparently all about bashing organizations, I 'can' wait until I pass away in 60 years having never seen the leafs hoist a cup. I'll enjoy each of them, so hopefully they don't go fast.

 

[blue_n_copper]

How well I remember Schultz in one of his last games as an Oiler against Montreal on the road. He skated into the corner after a loose puck with no pressure and then blindly threw it up the middle onto a Canadien's stick. Montreal goal. This was not an isolated incident, he did it again a few minutes later before I turned it off in disgust. It was so awful that I honestly thought he might be playing while concussed but no he had just quit even trying. There was no question that they had to trade him after that.

I am not surprised that he has found success playing fewer minutes on a more structured team, nor am I bitter. Good for him, but it was never going to happen in Edmonton.

 

[Duck Off]

He was terrible in Edmonton. This isn't entirely on the Oilers either. Schultz had a chance to not be rushed and play a lesser role while he developed. He chose Edmonton so he could be "the guy" quicker and it back fired in the worst way. He and the Oilers both needed a change, and fortunately for him the Pens took a chance on him and it's obviously worked well.

He is literally in the perfect spot though. Sullivan's transition game is about as good as it gets for defenseman who aren't the best defensively. Will be interesting to see if he chases the money or decides to stay with the team who's clearly a perfect fit for him.

 

[Menzinger]

You'd think the Oilers horrible player development system would be getting more attention in this thread.....

 

[DrDangles]

He can't Play Defense...

His positioning and stickwork are average. Expecting him to be a physical defender is a pipe dream.

He is what he is, and Pittsburgh utilizes him very well. That being said I'm a little concerned about the contract we'll likely be inking him to.

 

[Flair Hay]

Sometimes guys need a change of scenery and nothing will change that. Crying over spilled milk doesn't matter.

Oilers did what they had to do and Pens made a smart gamble.

 

[scb23]

Because it was going to cost the Oilers something like $4m to quality him. Wasn't worth near that to any team the way he was playing then. He might be now, but that's beside the point.

 

[Alex Jones]

Schultz would literally let the other guy get the puck so that he wouldn't have to take a hit in the corner. I saw him basically quit skating multiple times when the rush was going the other way. The only other player that I can remember so obviously quitting on a team was Sheldon Souray.

I have quite enjoyed watching Schultz this season, but that doesn't change the fact that he straight up quit on the oilers.

 

[Paralyzer]

He just came back and saved pittsburgh. Without his 2 points they dont move on.

More like J. Schultz gave up on us. And I don't blame him with our horrible former management. It was too bad the stench from them still hung onto him after the old regime. He was going to be traded. No matter how you spin it. He obviously didn't want to be here.

 

[Alex Jones]

More like J. Schultz gave up on us. And I don't blame him with our horrible former management. It was too bad the stench from them still hung onto him after the old regime. He was going to be traded. No matter how you spin it. He obviously didn't want to be here.

I would blame anybody for not trying when they are getting paid more in a year than most people make in a lifetime.

 

[JetsUK]

He sure looked like the old Schultz last night. How many passes to the point did he juggle?

I agree that the Pens generally utilize him well, as a deeply flawed defender with some strong O-zone instincts and a dangerous shot. Don't see him playing that role well in too many teams, and certainly not in EDM; not then, not now.

 

[sepHF]

Saying that a prospect was developed badly doesn't always mean they turned out to be bad players. It does in some cases, but not all cases. Jordan Eberle is a fantastic example. He's certainly a productive player, but there was a time when Eberle was one of the hottest prospects in hockey. He was a point per game player in his 2nd NHL season and scored 34 goals. But the general apathy that surrounded the team during the dark years was insidious and essentially pulled everyone down to substandard effort level and halted a lot of guys from taking the next step.

You also need to take into account how much the Oilers protected the Hall-RNH-Eberle line. Pure offensive zone starts and spoonfed them TONS of PP time. Eberle put up such impressive numbers because of a fluke season as far as shooting % goes and tons of opportunity he would have never gotten on a good team.

As soon as they actually had to play hard matchups and share PP time their stats fell. I think it has more to do with matchups and usage then it does apathy as you say.

That season will be Eberle's best statistical season by the time he retires, im sure of it.

 

[harpoon]

Id agree, if it wasn't for the amount of players bashed and trashed by Edmonton...only to thrive and succeed elsewhere. It's one of the reasons I can't stand Edmonton. Eberle is getting it now. And when he's run out of town, it's on to the next. All with the same narrative...at what awful players they are to have around, etc. Its ALWAYS the players fault. Never the messy system thats only talent is getting "lucky" at the draft. I bet Tyler Seguin drops to his knees thanking God poor Taylor was buried in that hell hole and he was saved.

Been an Oiler fan all my life. It wasn't always like that, but its hard to argue against what you are saying these days - although I can see lots of Oil fans in here trying.

Look, we don't really know what management thinks, but if you read the Oilers board we can see what 'fans' think in black and white. The vitriol directed at Taylor Hall the moment he got traded has been beyond disgusting. Schultz and Petry. Gagner, RNH and Eberle. Hell go back and read what Oiler fans had to say about Sheldon Souray when management tried to destroy his career. It was beyond sickening.

The only guys Oiler fans like after they get traded are worms like Scrivens who shoot off their mouths negatively about ex-teammates from their safety of a new gig in Siberia. Oh, and Yakupov, who apparently is still AllStar material to some.

I think you are right to identify Oiler fans as among the least loyal on the board. And its sad because Oiler fans used to be among the best in the league.

I look forward to the day when McDavid jumps ship to Toronto..where everyone knows he wants to be. Him and the best young complete player in Matthews would be one fun team.

This isn't happening and it detracts from your otherwise accurate points to throw a joke paragraph like this on the end of your post.