Why David Pastrnak will be the NHL's next break out star

[Ten Thousand Hours]

People also forgot Lucic was kept as fourth line muscle after the Teddy Bear Dave Lewis era..It was an active move by ownership to be big and "bad" again...

I like Claude, but I also know if given his choice only it would be Yelle over Sobotka , Kelly as 2nd line center over Spooner...Even Marchand was the 13th forward behind Paille in 2011 until Paille's awful game one in Praque.

Coaches have short life spans, I don't blame him.

First of all, no he wasn't. He started that year on the 4th line with Campbell and Thornton. Caron was the 13th forward for a game. Second of all, are you really complaining about having someone who had played 20 games with only a single point not being given a spot in the top 9 over Paille (who had 3 straight double digit goal seasons and is only 4 years older)?

A lot of the examples you and LSCII are using aren't valid at all. Pastrnak is 18 and IS being given a chance (how many other 18 year olds are in the NHL right now?). Krug had done very little to deserve a spot in the playoff lineup over Redden early on in the Toronto series, but once he earned a spot (pretty quickly), he kept it. Bartkowski was 3rd among defensemen in ATOI last postseason and it wasn't until he REALLY deserved to get benched, did he get benched. How was that a matter of Claude not giving him the kid a chance?

 

[LSCII]

First of all, no he wasn't. He started that year on the 4th line with Campbell and Thornton. Caron was the 13th forward for a game. Second of all, are you really complaining about having someone who had played 20 games with only a single point not being given a spot in the top 9 over Paille (who had 3 straight double digit goal seasons and is only 4 years older)?

A lot of the examples you and LSCII are using aren't valid at all. Pastrnak is 18 and IS being given a chance (how many other 18 year olds are in the NHL right now?). Krug had done very little to deserve a spot in the playoff lineup over Redden early on in the Toronto series, but once he earned a spot (pretty quickly), he kept it. Bartkowski was 3rd among defensemen in ATOI last postseason and it wasn't until he REALLY deserved to get benched, did he get benched. How was that a matter of Claude not giving him the kid a chance?

So they didn't give Griffith and Cunningham a shot before Pasta this year? And they didn't have Kelly playing on that line in DK's spot instead of Spooner, this year? I must be misremebering things then...

 

[BoyntBergie]

Yeah never said once they proved themselves he wouldn't play them

Point is he would rather insert a Kelly into a spot he shouldn't be in over trusting a Koko or Spooner to grow into the role.

Das all.

Win-now teams often don't do this though. Sure, there are some exceptions to be found, but most teams that are all-in don't break green rookies in with a long leash. They tend to go with the safer bet.

Pastrnak has been an exception as he hasn't been a defensive liability. He doesn't play his age, at all. Add his offensive instincts and you have a player we should all be really excited about.

It's fairly depressing that a thread about an emerging star and one of the few bright spots this season has devolved into the usual suspects wailing on about Seguin, Kessel, and Claude. Not surprising, but disappointing for sure.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

I agree with that, but they are eventually given the chance after two seasons... They generally do not sign Simon Gagne's..they plug their kids in and live or die with them.

If after two years of AHL your prospects aren't regulars then deal them.

Tomas Tatar: 4 seasons in AHL. Graduated last year at 23y.
Gustav Nyquist: 2 seasons in AHL. Graduated last year at 24y.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

So they didn't give Griffith and Cunningham a shot before Pasta this year? And they didn't have Kelly playing on that line in DK's spot instead of Spooner, this year? I must be misremebering things then...

I'm not saying he has a tendency to go with kids over veterans. I'm saying I think he's pretty balanced (more specifically I said a lot of your examples are invalid - but I didn't say all of them are).

It's really rare for a late first round pick to play in the NHL his rookie year, let alone, day 1. Putting him in the AHL isn't anti-youth. It's normal. And he did give him a spot soon enough.

 

[LSCII]

Win-now teams often don't do this though. Sure, there are some exceptions to be found, but most teams that are all-in don't break green rookies in with a long leash. They tend to go with the safer bet.

Pastrnak has been an exception as he hasn't been a defensive liability. He doesn't play his age, at all. Add his offensive instincts and you have a player we should all be really excited about.

It's fairly depressing that a thread about an emerging star and one of the few bright spots this season has devolved into the usual suspects wailing on about Seguin, Kessel, and Claude. Not surprising, but disappointing for sure.

If you want to bring it back on topic, how about you answer the question I've posed to Arty multiple times with no answer?

You said teams looking to win now don't typically bring up rookies to play, yet the Bruins had Griffith and Cunningham (both rookies, no?) up on the first line before trying Pasta there. After seeing what we've seen, who do you think the best fit in that spot has been?

 

[LSCII]

I'm not saying he has a tendency to go with kids over veterans. I'm saying I think he's pretty balanced (more specifically I said a lot of your examples are invalid - but I didn't say all of them are).

It's really rare for a late first round pick to play in the NHL his rookie year, let alone, day 1. Putting him in the AHL isn't anti-youth. It's normal. And he did give him a spot soon enough.

It isn't, except when the coach is playing rookies in that spot that have no business being there. Griffith and Cunningham getting minutes on the first line is a flat out ****ing disgrace. Why would guys with limited offensive upside get a chance yet the guy projected to be a good offensive player not? It's pretty obvious.

 

[Stone Clode]

It isn't, except when the coach is playing rookies in that spot that have no business being there. Griffith and Cunningham getting minutes on the first line is a flat out ****ing disgrace. Why would guys with limited offensive upside get a chance yet the guy projected to be a good offensive player not? It's pretty obvious.

Well no, it isn't. Even THEY didn't think Pastrnak was going to be THIS good THIS fast. They went with Griffith first because he's been in the damn system longer. He earned a shot first. They brought Pastrnak to the AHL because they thought that's where he would be this year. They didn't think he was ready. NOBODY did. Lon, you're acting like you knew he was an elite offensive talent that should have been there. That's ********.

I'm sorry, you have other examples that you can use, and your using a pretty ****** example. The Cunningham thing was obviously not necessary. Can't believe he got that shot. And the whole Kelly or Spooner thing is ******** too. But to argue that Pastrnak deserved a shot before Griffith did is absolute *********. Horse. ****.

And on a side note, how the **** did Griffith have "limited offensive upside"? Because you didn't follow him closely? The guy DESTROYED the OHL, and then scored 50 points in 69 games in his first year in the AHL.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

It isn't, except when the coach is playing rookies in that spot that have no business being there. Griffith and Cunningham getting minutes on the first line is a flat out ****ing disgrace. Why would guys with limited offensive upside get a chance yet the guy projected to be a good offensive player not? It's pretty obvious.

How do you know Griffith and Cunningham have no upside? They're about as productive as Marchand in the minors and more productive than Marchand's first stint here. Aren't you trying to say he usually doesn't give kids chances?

 

[LSCII]

How do you know Griffith and Cunningham have no upside? They're about as productive as Marchand in the minors and more productive than Marchand's first stint here. Aren't you trying to say he usually doesn't give kids chances?

In fairness to them, you're right. I don't know at this point. I can say that watching them this season, it was clear they were not being put in the best possible spot to succeed. Is that a fair statement?

I also think that after seeing a small sample of Pasta, he clearly was far more suited to that spot when compared to Griff or Cunningham. Is that a fair statement?

 

[ODAAT]

In fairness to them, you're right. I don't know at this point. I can say that watching them this season, it was clear they were not being put in the best possible spot to succeed. Is that a fair statement?

I also think that after seeing a small sample of Pasta, he clearly was far more suited to that spot when compared to Griff or Cunningham. Is that a fair statement?

I like Cunningham ideally in a 4th line spot, 3rd max but that, IMO is stretching it

I think on a deep team if you had Griffith sitting on the wing of the 3rd line, you`d be doing well

 

[LSCII]

Well no, it isn't. Even THEY didn't think Pastrnak was going to be THIS good THIS fast. They went with Griffith first because he's been in the damn system longer. He earned a shot first. They brought Pastrnak to the AHL because they thought that's where he would be this year. They didn't think he was ready. NOBODY did. Lon, you're acting like you knew he was an elite offensive talent that should have been there. That's ********.

I'm sorry, you have other examples that you can use, and your using a pretty ****** example. The Cunningham thing was obviously not necessary. Can't believe he got that shot. And the whole Kelly or Spooner thing is ******** too. But to argue that Pastrnak deserved a shot before Griffith did is absolute *********. Horse. ****.

And on a side note, how the **** did Griffith have "limited offensive upside"? Because you didn't follow him closely? The guy DESTROYED the OHL, and then scored 50 points in 69 games in his first year in the AHL.

I say limited upside based on the role he was used. I think he'd probably been a far better fit on a different line and could possibly turn into a decent offensive player, but he isn't there yet.

In terms of Pasta, he just looks different. I'm not sure how I can quantify it better than that, if that makes sense to you. He doesn't look out of place or over matched. He looks comfortable, you know? I'm also a big believer of age being meaningless in sports. If you're young, but you show you belong, you belong. I just get the sense that julien is more old school and takes things like that into consideration. Like if he was coaching the Oilers back in the day, Gretzky would have had to spend a couple of years in the A getting seasoning...

 

[Stone Clode]

I say limited upside based on the role he was used. I think he'd probably been a far better fit on a different line and could possibly turn into a decent offensive player, but he isn't there yet.

In terms of Pasta, he just looks different. I'm not sure how I can quantify it better than that, if that makes sense to you. He doesn't look out of place or over matched. He looks comfortable, you know? I'm also a big believer of age being meaningless in sports. If you're young, but you show you belong, you belong. I just get the sense that julien is more old school and takes things like that into consideration. Like if he was coaching the Oilers back in the day, Gretzky would have had to spend a couple of years in the A getting seasoning...

I understand what you mean about Pasta. He definitely has "it". He's just one of those special players. But I didn't really know that until I saw him in the AHL for a few weeks. I went to the first 6 home games for the Baby B's. I could tell you after those games that I liked what I saw a lot. But I couldn't have told you that quickly that he deserved a shot right away. He definitely had things he needed to work on a bit. And he did. He adapted really quickly, which was even more impressive. At that point, he was ready.

And at that point, the Griffith experiment was over. But I don't really fault them for trying Griffith. I fault them for trying him on the first line over Eriksson. That is where Claude pissed me off. Eriksson should have been with Krejci and Lucic, and Griffith should have been with Kelly and Soderberg.

I still think Griff is gonna be a good 3rd line winger some day. He's a guy that should be dangled in trades. He's undersized, which is what deterred teams come draft time, but he's continued to bust his ass, and he has the skill. Some other team could give him a better and more immediate shot and deal with the lumps. Kind of surprised I haven't heard his name in trade talks more often, TBH.

 

[ksp1957]

If you want to bring it back on topic, how about you answer the question I've posed to Arty multiple times with no answer?

You said teams looking to win now don't typically bring up rookies to play, yet the Bruins had Griffith and Cunningham (both rookies, no?) up on the first line before trying Pasta there. After seeing what we've seen, who do you think the best fit in that spot has been?

Looks like the fish ain't biting. Pasta is going to be a player in this league if he's allowed to be himself. If the coaching staff tries to turn him into a Chris Kelly with a bit of offensive push, I'll be pissed.

 

[LouJersey]

Win-now teams often don't do this though. Sure, there are some exceptions to be found, but most teams that are all-in don't break green rookies in with a long leash. They tend to go with the safer bet.

Pastrnak has been an exception as he hasn't been a defensive liability. He doesn't play his age, at all. Add his offensive instincts and you have a player we should all be really excited about.

It's fairly depressing that a thread about an emerging star and one of the few bright spots this season has devolved into the usual suspects wailing on about Seguin, Kessel, and Claude. Not surprising, but disappointing for sure.

But Kelly is useless in a 2nd line C position. Maybe had we done all these things earlier (Spooner / Koko) , Ferlin, Bartkowski our team wouldn't be fighting for the play-offs. The argument is Pastrnak should have been up here the second he was recovered from his injury..instead of the RW du jour we had to sit through .

 

[finchster]

I understand what you mean about Pasta. He definitely has "it". He's just one of those special players. But I didn't really know that until I saw him in the AHL for a few weeks. I went to the first 6 home games for the Baby B's. I could tell you after those games that I liked what I saw a lot. But I couldn't have told you that quickly that he deserved a shot right away. He definitely had things he needed to work on a bit. And he did. He adapted really quickly, which was even more impressive. At that point, he was ready.

And at that point, the Griffith experiment was over. But I don't really fault them for trying Griffith. I fault them for trying him on the first line over Eriksson. That is where Claude pissed me off. Eriksson should have been with Krejci and Lucic, and Griffith should have been with Kelly and Soderberg.

I still think Griff is gonna be a good 3rd line winger some day. He's a guy that should be dangled in trades. He's undersized, which is what deterred teams come draft time, but he's continued to bust his ass, and he has the skill. Some other team could give him a better and more immediate shot and deal with the lumps. Kind of surprised I haven't heard his name in trade talks more often, TBH.

In my opinion, the Bruins need to get younger and cheaper. Maybe you trade Smith and give Griffith the third line role next year.

 

[LSCII]

Looks like the fish ain't biting. Pasta is going to be a player in this league if he's allowed to be himself. If the coaching staff tries to turn him into a Chris Kelly with a bit of offensive push, I'll be pissed.

It's amazing that I ask a simple question, yet none of the people arguing with me will answer it. Seriously? Weak.

 

[BoyntBergie]

If you want to bring it back on topic, how about you answer the question I've posed to Arty multiple times with no answer?

You said teams looking to win now don't typically bring up rookies to play, yet the Bruins had Griffith and Cunningham (both rookies, no?) up on the first line before trying Pasta there. After seeing what we've seen, who do you think the best fit in that spot has been?

Because it isn't the topic. The topic isn't LSC whinging about how Claude hates kids, oh wait, nope now it's he hates offensive kids. Forgot about that goal post move. My b.

The topic is that Pastrnak is an emerging stud. I'll play a little though...

How has Pastrnak's 10 games/ELC kick-in not been brought up by anyone yet? Because there's your answer. They could play Griffith and Cunningham without any worries in that regard. Pastrnak, not the case. And that's to say nothing of his injury and the fact he had to acclimate to NA hockey, whereas the other 2 didn't.

 

[LouJersey]

So where do your lines sit next year?

Lucic-DK-Eriksson
Marchand-Bergy-Pasta
Kelly-Spooner-Smith
UFA-Cunningham-Ferlin

Livable?

 

[Stone Clode]

In my opinion, the Bruins need to get younger and cheaper. Maybe you trade Smith and give Griffith the third line role next year.

Very interesting. If I'm moving Smith, its part of a package to improve that top 6 as well. He's a valuable piece there. Ideally (and thats never possible), I would like them to improve their top 6, get Smith back at a reasonable number again (based on this season they probably can), and then have a Griffith-Soderberg/Spooner-Smith 3rd line. That I think would work well.

 

[ksp1957]

So where do your lines sit next year?

Lucic-DK-Eriksson
Marchand-Bergy-Pasta
Kelly-Spooner-Smith
UFA-Cunningham-Ferlin

Livable?

Lose Kelly and I'm good with that.

 

[LouJersey]

Because it isn't the topic. The topic isn't LSC whinging about how Claude hates kids, oh wait, nope now it's he hates offensive kids. Forgot about that goal post move. My b.

The topic is that Pastrnak is an emerging stud. I'll play a little though...

How has Pastrnak's 10 games/ELC kick-in not been brought up by anyone yet? Because there's your answer. They could play Griffith and Cunningham without any worries in that regard. Pastrnak, not the case. And that's to say nothing of his injury and the fact he had to acclimate to NA hockey, whereas the other 2 didn't.

If that caused them to not put their best twelve on the ice, then shame on them but that is a very good point.

 

[LSCII]

Because it isn't the topic. The topic isn't LSC whinging about how Claude hates kids, oh wait, nope now it's he hates offensive kids. Forgot about that goal post move. My b.

The topic is that Pastrnak is an emerging stud. I'll play a little though...

How has Pastrnak's 10 games/ELC kick-in not been brought up by anyone yet? Because there's your answer. They could play Griffith and Cunningham without any worries in that regard. Pastrnak, not the case. And that's to say nothing of his injury and the fact he had to acclimate to NA hockey, whereas the other 2 didn't.

You're right it's not. But like usual, you can't see the forest through the trees. Like Lou said, it was about picking the wrong rookies to give a shot to instead of the right ones. Again though, you missed that because of your bias.

And who cares if the clock started ticking on his ELC? If he belongs it shouldn't matter, and he belongs, clearly.

 

[Stone Clode]

So where do your lines sit next year?

Lucic-DK-Eriksson
Marchand-Bergy-Pasta
Kelly-Spooner-Smith
UFA-Cunningham-Ferlin

Livable?

I still think a deal is made in the offseason for a top 6 forward. Likely at the draft. Can't tell who yet, though.

Lucic - Krejci - Top 6 addition
Marchand - Bergeron - Pasta
Griffith - Spooner - Smith
UFA - Cunningham - Ferlin

Utilize Koko/Eriksson/Soderberg's rights in a deal for a top 6 forward at the draft.

 

[LouJersey]

I think it would be ridiculous to trade Smith... I'd try to lock him up 2.5-3 per , 4-5 years.

Kid is a player and he will become more consistent. I see his makeup. I think he's a guy who plays better when comfortable with his contract situation vs a guy who gets paid then gets worse