Why are we so easy to play against?

axlrose87

Registered User
Jul 13, 2018
1,628
1,282
I'm not going to make any excuses for the debacle against Carolina. It was the worst game I've seen this team ever play...and I lived through the Ballard era. But how is it that teams continually come into our barn and check us into the ground? Ok here comes the conspiracy theory:

Its well known we don't draw penalties..at all. I have no idea why. But we don't. I believe that's why we don't check and why teams grind us. They scout us...they see all our games. If you know going in that you can get away with things against this team that you can't if you play say a Boston or Pittsburgh, you do it. You check harder, you slash, you crash the goalie, you hold, you obstruct. You do it because you can and you know that the officiating crew, whomever they are, is not going to call anything when the score is close.
Conversely if you are the Leafs, a skilled, softer team who seem to draw an ordinate amount of ticky tack fouls almost every game, your tendency is to not engage as much because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In short , the league and its "game management" style of officiating has put this team in a no win scenario. We don't help ourselves, of course, when we fold like a cheap suit at the first sign of adversity, and mail it in the rest of the game. But how do you beat the your opponent when you have to overcome them and the league office?

And if you don't believe our games are officiated differently, I watched Boston vs Edmonton on Wednesday. 11 penalties between the two teams. And almost all of them legit calls. When was the last time you saw that many penalties in a Leaf game?

I will now put away my tinfoil hat and resume my fervent hope that this was indeed rock bottom. I mean, it can't get any worse...can it?
Do you remember those days in physed class when you were up against the nerd who didn’t care about pe class? That’s probably what opposing teams feel when they come up against the leafs.
 

lovemyleafs

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
2,881
2,029
Pretty simple. One dimensional offensively gifted players + atrocious defensive core + horrendous goaltending.
 

34

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
21,490
9,312
The team has no confidence playing in front of goaltender Andersen. He is that bad, he sucks the life out of the team. Then he turns around and puts the blame on everybody else, instead of looking in the mirror and realizing that he is a complete f***ing bum.

Things have to change in Toronto very quickly! I think the upper brass see exactly what is going on and will demand action.
 

ponder

Registered User
Jul 11, 2007
16,956
6,274
Vancouver
Non-Leafs fan opinion, of course, but I live in Oakville and watch all the games.

  • Forwards don’t play defence at all, zero commitment to a breakout or shutting down an opposition cycle. Only thing on the mind is the fast break.
  • Can’t get timely saves when you need them, other teams always seem to score goals at key times.
  • Defence cannot handle a strong forecheck, turn the puck over like crazy when they are being physically manhandled.
  • Complete lack of physicality in the lineup, arguably the softest team in the league. Zero pushback. Opponents don’t have to play with any concern against the Leafs, it’s bullying time.
Just my $0.02 CAD.
Strongly agree with this. We have a bunch of talented players, but the makeup of the team is all wrong. Soft and a lack of commitment to D throughout the lineup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: daveleaf

lottster14

Registered User
Feb 10, 2019
3,274
1,913
Anytime pressure is put on the leafs they crumble. They are not a team built to withstand that pressure and match the intensity of other teams
 
  • Like
Reactions: daveleaf

varano

Registered User
Jun 27, 2013
5,161
1,917
Theyre all stat padders. They only care about individual records.

Think long and hard about this... In post game interviews... How many times are they going to say "Our effort as unacceptable" , yet do NOTHING to fix it.

Admitting theres a problem that you know about over and over and over and not improving your game or rallying your team mates means that you just dont care about wins and losses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: daveleaf

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
The problem is most teams take on the identity of their best players. It's rare for a team to have a tough identity and then have a bunch of floaters as their top players.

You can bring in all the Clifford's you want, but they will get here and fall into the floater mentality of this core group. What's worse is that fans think a guy like Clifford or Muzzin is playing hard because they throw one hit every four games. Yes, that does stand out with our group because literally nobody hits, but it's not enough to survive with the teams built with real men that will ultimately succeed in may and June.

At this point, we have to get rid of half of the core and start again.
 

usernamezrhardtodo

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
2,281
2,720
Strongly agree with this. We have a bunch of talented players, but the makeup of the team is all wrong. Soft and a lack of commitment to D throughout the lineup.

It might be because there is no real "Stat" to crow about if you're good on D for a forward...even for D-men they don't look at plus/minus anymore. When looking at D-men we are told Barrie is really good...he scored 60pts last year. Ok...what does that tell me about his play in his own end? nothing.

So, our players are looking for stats that they can use to make more money. There is no team pride in winning a close 3-1 game...they want to make it exciting and flashy so they can make Bank on it. This is the culture problem with this team...they are a bunch of independent contractors and not a team.
 

usernamezrhardtodo

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
2,281
2,720
The problem is most teams take on the identity of their best players. It's rare for a team to have a tough identity and then have a bunch of floaters as their top players.

You can bring in all the Clifford's you want, but they will get here and fall into the floater mentality of this core group. What's worse is that fans think a guy like Clifford or Muzzin is playing hard because they throw one hit every four games. Yes, that does stand out with our group because literally nobody hits, but it's not enough to survive with the teams built with real men that will ultimately succeed in may and June.

At this point, we have to get rid of half of the core and start again.

You bring up a good point about Clifford. He never plastered anyone in his first few games...he was trying to keep up with our 'skill' guys on the 3rd line...and did nothing. He wasn't useful until he had that fight and woke up the team..but as you said..they will follow the lead of the big dogs for the most part. I don't know what the answer to this team's problem is..but it ain't going to be easy to rectify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eye Test

Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
14,744
4,835
Toronto
Sandin, Dermott and Barrie are soft, small, short armed, short sticked, low compete defenders who not only panic in their own end, but don't possess the strength to fight off forecheckers... They just get feasted on.

Dermott is not soft. Sandin shouldn’t be on the big team yet. He still needs to grow and mature. Barrie yeah he sucks
 

varano

Registered User
Jun 27, 2013
5,161
1,917
You bring up a good point about Clifford. He never plastered anyone in his first few games...he was trying to keep up with our 'skill' guys on the 3rd line...and did nothing. He wasn't useful until he had that fight and woke up the team..but as you said..they will follow the lead of the big dogs for the most part. I don't know what the answer to this team's problem is..but it ain't going to be easy to rectify.
We've had Kyle Clifford types before. We had Matt Martin and dumped him for nothing. Bringing in one player doesn't change the team to the broad Street bullies. Clifford can't go out on every shift and police things. Dubas rewarded these kids for doing nothing and that's the culture he has. He has a skilled group that wants to Deke and button hook all game. No defence, no shot suppression, no toughness. No hits ... So they just have one element of many many many hockey elements covered lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeafsRus

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,746
11,015
You bring up a good point about Clifford. He never plastered anyone in his first few games...he was trying to keep up with our 'skill' guys on the 3rd line...and did nothing. He wasn't useful until he had that fight and woke up the team..but as you said..they will follow the lead of the big dogs for the most part. I don't know what the answer to this team's problem is..but it ain't going to be easy to rectify.
The team takes on the mentality of the top down. Case in point, Kapanen. Who started the game as a carry over from the previous game? Then who quickly fell into the pattern that comes from the top?

2 options. The core either learns to compete every night (off nights should be more the exception/situation than the rule) or start gradually changing it.

Colorado had to do it. One core gradually replaced for another.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Polaris1010

Registered User
Mar 23, 2017
3,800
1,300
grandma's cellar
The team takes on the mentality of the top down. Case in point, Kapanen. Who started the game as a carry over from the previous game? Then who quickly fell into the pattern that comes from the top?

2 options. The core either learns to compete every night (off nights should be more the exception/situation than the rule) or start gradually changing it.

Colorado had to do it. One core gradually replaced for another.
I always wondered why Babcock never played Matthews and Marner together. When they did, it was only briefly.

Now we know.

Matthews and Marner on the same line is a recipe for losing.

The kids, the big three, were always stuck to a line with a vet or Matthews with Hyman the hard worker.

Just like what Mr. Ballard always said.

You do not let the inmates run the asylum.

:baghead:
 

BAM

Registered User
Nov 21, 2016
4,048
2,299
Marner is soft, Tavares is a robot, Nylander is strong on the puck but isn't exactly physical. I have noticed Matthews throwing his body around more often which is nice to see. The Leafs may be the only team that doesn't finish their hits on a player despite seeing the other team do it to them constantly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baton elevated

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,158
5,194
Hard not to blame Dubas and Keefe.

the entitled brats were given everything they asked for. Their mean coach was fired, they were given the linemates they wanted, and they were given more ice time that they asked for. Then the new young coach came in and proclaimed "you guys are so skilled! We need you to play to your god given talent".... their heads went from watermelons to beachballs!

Little by little the defensive play, disipline and work ethic dissolved from their games and more and more the shinny moves continue to grow and evolve. Instead of buckling down, limiting mistakes, making simple plays and matching the oppositions work ethic or "gasp" exceeding it... they relied more and more on their "god given talent"... they do spin orama passes and shots...they try to deke through 4 players alone. Shocking that they suck...it really is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Its not your fault

Registered User
Nov 24, 2016
1,740
474
FB_IMG_1582426701202.jpg
 

TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,062
3,572
Toronto
I just don't see the right drive from our key players.

Your best players can't enjoy winning, they need to hate losing. I feel like our big 4 have secured huge contracts and like to put up points and think winning is great, but if they lose, miss the playoffs, or go out in the first round that they aren't all that bothered by it and just go have a night on the town
 

Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,113
3,321
Milton
They are the microcosm of our generation. Everything handed to them, they want instant gratification without putting in the work, they have not built up the habits to succeed and they lack a burning desire to win. If you think about warriors that will do anything to win, fight, block shots, put there Body on the line, claw their way back or have a win or die mentality... well these guys are like the opposite of that. We had one player who was minutes away from missing an entire season because he wouldn’t get enough $$$$. Matthews takes a shorter term deal (does he want to be hear long term or f*** off to Arizona after year 5)? What does that tell his teammates. Marner is not mentality in it right now. It’s a very poor environment right now. I would bag skate these guys 4 hours every morning, every night and wait for the quitters to quit just to find out who the quitters are to get them out
 

joeyjojojrshabadoo

Registered User
Jan 25, 2009
775
375
Because we play an all-around lazy, weak-willed, weak-bodied, poorly structured, opportunistic brand of hockey. Barrie gets slammed head-first into the boards at speed and we do.... absolutely nothing. We lost (it seemed) every single 50-50 puck battle last night. I bet we lost every 60-40 and 70-30 and 80-20 puck battle, too . We have a team full of kids that don't (seem to) have any fire whatsoever. It's remarkable. Look at their faces on the bench. No one's getting angry. No one's getting fired up. No one seems to care, even a little bit. Just a collective "meh" from everyone on the team, all the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
I'm not going to make any excuses for the debacle against Carolina. It was the worst game I've seen this team ever play...and I lived through the Ballard era. But how is it that teams continually come into our barn and check us into the ground? Ok here comes the conspiracy theory:

Its well known we don't draw penalties..at all. I have no idea why. But we don't. I believe that's why we don't check and why teams grind us. They scout us...they see all our games. If you know going in that you can get away with things against this team that you can't if you play say a Boston or Pittsburgh, you do it. You check harder, you slash, you crash the goalie, you hold, you obstruct. You do it because you can and you know that the officiating crew, whomever they are, is not going to call anything when the score is close.
Conversely if you are the Leafs, a skilled, softer team who seem to draw an ordinate amount of ticky tack fouls almost every game, your tendency is to not engage as much because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In short , the league and its "game management" style of officiating has put this team in a no win scenario. We don't help ourselves, of course, when we fold like a cheap suit at the first sign of adversity, and mail it in the rest of the game. But how do you beat the your opponent when you have to overcome them and the league office?

And if you don't believe our games are officiated differently, I watched Boston vs Edmonton on Wednesday. 11 penalties between the two teams. And almost all of them legit calls. When was the last time you saw that many penalties in a Leaf game?

I will now put away my tinfoil hat and resume my fervent hope that this was indeed rock bottom. I mean, it can't get any worse...can it?
We don’t forcheck hard Kadri used to do that.
We don’t kill penalties aggressively
We don’t power play hard driving the net
We don’t see standing up for each other to any degree that indicates they actually do.
We don’t have a speed game anymore consistently, when we do we have all the above going and win.
Secondary scoring is scarce and bottom six is soft, no hard to the net and hitting everything that moves. We just don’t have them players.

The entire mystery is not a mystery if you bring up the roster and evaluate what each player brings. The amount of soft skilled players dominates the roster. So they don’t hit, don’t out work, don’t out forcheck and don’t out play defensively any opponents. They don’t draw penalties because they are not hard enough on puck, just not a hungry team. If the going gets tough, the tough get going. We aren’t tough and they disappear because they go passive instead of intense battling out working.

It’s a product of the make up of the lineup. The bottom six needs a complete do over and nothing but nadty competitiveness and players with chips on their shoulders. That would rub of and create energy. This team lack hockey energy. Hockey energy is that ingredient where teams hate you and wilt when you are pounding them hard.

Soft,not interesting,no character, passive. Yellow bellies. Pick one they will all fit.

That said, our stars are our hardest workers. Go figure why the others are kept around and how important do you see any of them to bring pride and competitiveness to the Leaf. Don’t count on it the bottom six and a couple defensemen are embarrassingly yellow and lack anything we need.

I certainly hope I didn’t miss anything in raking the bittom six over the coals. They are a embarrassment.
 

cannucky

Registered User
Aug 18, 2011
1,933
890
If you have to ask this question then you don’t get it anymore than the Leafs team.
Carolina showed you last night.
They straight up showed you.
20 guys that work hard on a nightly basis that became something even more than they had to be to protect each other and fight to the last.
Lost my Like button again so This^^^^^
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

frizzer1

Registered User
Oct 19, 2013
5,459
3,966
It’s too easy to score on their defence.
Sandin, Barrie, and Dermott are too small or too weak to handle opposing forwards.
Holl playing top two is a recipe for disaster.
Marincin is .. never mind
And Andersen fails consistently in crunch time.
That is what deflates a team,in my view.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad