Why are the Flames a better organization?

[HallOfGreatness4]

I've paid attention the last few years to them vs. us closely. Things just seem to really fall nicely into place for them, as painful as it is to admit. Things work out, and new players come in, and they're still a respectful organization and club.

They're like the St. Louis Cardinals in baseball. They play baseball the Cardinal way. They'll never be dreadful because of the type of organization they are. It's not acceptable.

The Flames went through their rebuild; and sure enough: they've more just re-tooled than rebuilt.

Meanwhile, year after year after year, we just don't have things 'work out'. I can go into detail on this, but I shouldn't need to.

I am not in the know, I don't follow as closely as some here; so I am wondering what is the reason that the Flames always stay afloat and we never pass them up? I think I can tell it comes down to more than pure talent.

Can we discuss? What are they doing that we are not.

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[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They have a better defense.

...That's all I can really say. They're likely to faceplant this year.

 

[Soundwave]

I personally don't think they will make the playoffs this year either.

Dallas and San Jose draw in, IMO two teams are going to have to drop out from the West.

They have a solid d-corps that can move the puck. That's the main thing, and Hartley is a good coach whereas Eakins wasn't.

 

[Evil Ernie]

The Flames are not and will never be a better organization.

IMO, they shouldn't even exist.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Strong, STABLE management

and do not change the coach every 12 months

 

[Topkatz]

I personally don't think they will make the playoffs this year either.

Dallas and San Jose draw in, IMO two teams are going to have to drop out from the West.

They have a solid d-corps that can move the puck. That's the main thing, and Hartley is a good coach whereas Eakins wasn't.

Their d-core is not just solid, it's one of the best in the league.

As long as you have forwards who can score, a good D to give them good scoring chances is always a great base to work from.

The last time the Oilers had good D, his name was Chris Pronger and look what happened.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Well over the past 2+ years with Hartley they don't just preach accountability, they act on it. Decent leadership from the vets too. They also have more depth now which breeds competition, something the Oilers haven't had in a long while.

Hopefully the Oilers young guys in the AHL can start pushing but leadership and accountability have been lacking previously. Hopefully McLellan, Chiarelli, Nicholson can impart a culture change.

 

[Narnia]

Calgary doesn't change coaches every ****ing year. Oilers need consistency in coaching and they've had 5 coaches in 6 years and that's a big issue why the Oilers struggle.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

Ok, they may not make the playoffs; but they never completely bottom out and are a complete embarrassment like we are night in and night out, season over season.

Even when you think it's coming. You guys know what I mean. I thought they were going to take their turn being the lottery pick team for a few seasons and it never really happened. Their late round selections seem to work out. I just don't get it

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Their d-core is not just solid, it's one of the best in the league.

As long as you have forwards who can score, a good D to give them good scoring chances is always a great base to work from.

The last time the Oilers had good D, his name was Chris Pronger and look what happened.

I keep hearing this but I'm not seeing it. Between last year and the year before their defense was relatively unchanged.

Hamilton has also struggled so far. Almost like playing in the West is a lot harder than playing in the East...

 

[Replacement*]

To answer the OP question orgs that have pronounced periods of radical success often have periods of failure years or even decades later.

For some of the very reasons that people postulate here. That management in these firms tends to be populated based on past, rather than present success.

In terms of hockey application similar things happened to the leafs decades ago. They were a once dominant team, and org, and have basically disappeared since.

Islanders would be another example, Philly another. Bruins are well headed down that road to futility.

In most org environments that are competitive in present sense there doesn't exist the "lets look after all these guys" mentality. the Oilers as we know are chock full of this Old boys club. They still are.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

They can put the puck in the net. No, seriously. Other than Eberle, the oilers seems to have no one who can really finish at an elite level.

 

[Husker Du]

When you have missed the playoffs for nine years in a row every organization is likely to be better. Calgary is only marginally better as an organization. One year in the playoffs after missing for several years prior is hardly a successful organization.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

They can put the puck in the net. No, seriously. Other than Eberle, the oilers seems to have no one who can really finish at an elite level.

Fair enough. On Calgary, who would you categorize at this level other than Johnny Hockey?

 

[Replacement*]

They can put the puck in the net. No, seriously. Other than Eberle, the oilers seems to have no one who can really finish at an elite level.

Really disagree with this. We have better forwards on this club. More talented and with better hands. But in Calgary the forwards get better service from the D and also go to the money scoring areas more consistently. Most times with Gaudreau you're not seeing them score from longrange or anything. Not like they're snipers, they score from the dangerous areas of ice that they are much more willing to go to.

Calgary forwards simply roll their sleeves up and get into the dirty areas more consistently than this talented Oiler team that all to often tempt themselves into thinking they can be dangerous playing peripheral hockey.

When the Oilers actually go to the paint they tend to get rewarded. Hard work and going to danger areas gets rewarded.

But the Oilers TM has somehow been built on talent whereas Flames teams have historically meant a club that just works harder. With the exception of the late 90's no Oiler team has had success as a primarily hard working team.

 

[Soundwave]

When you have missed the playoffs for nine years in a row every organization is likely to be better. Calgary is only marginally better as an organization. One year in the playoffs after missing for several years prior is hardly a successful organization.

Yeah pretty much. Since their one and done Cinderella runs in 2004 and 2006, I'd say the Canucks for example have been by far more successful overall than either Alberta franchise. By and large since the 1990s really the Canucks have been better than both (significantly).

Oilers have just stumbled into a new level of sucktitude.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

Fair enough. On Calgary, who would you categorize at this level other than Johnny Hockey?

Right now? Hudler and Monahan.

 

[Narnia]

When you have missed the playoffs for nine years in a row every organization is likely to be better. Calgary is only marginally better as an organization. One year in the playoffs after missing for several years prior is hardly a successful organization.

Oilers have had 7 coaches in those 9 years. Don't you think having 7 coaches in 9 years is part of the problem.

 

[Jet Walters]

Calgary's management/ownership never once came out and said they were going to tank for high draft picks.

 

[doulos]

Because they are not the Oilers. All organizations at this point in time are better than the Oilers. They are the armpit of pro sports currently.

 

[Kepler 186f]

Meh. They were managed better, at least until recently, but they are still a borderline playoff team. I mean good for them, and I'd love to watch Oilers playoff hockey again.

But they aren't that great. They have a good defense for sure, but I don't see them going very far this year again.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Because they are not the Oilers. All organizations at this point in time are better than the Oilers. They are the armpit of pro sports currently.

Exactly this.

This thread is like asking, 'how come that Porsche is better than my '93 Neon?'

Cause your '93 Neon is a piece of ****...

 

[Mr Positive]

following the implosion after the cup run, we basically didn't have nearly the level of talent the Flames had, who were still a playoff team for years. With veterans of value, you can cultivate new young players much easier, and you can make trades with pieces that teams will actually pay for. We didn't have any of that, so we basically needed to rebuild the way we did, and when you do a scorched earth rebuild it's an ugly process, and it was mandated by Katz. In that process, the faults of every player and manager are magnified, and on top of that our management would have probably been bad for any team. We just picked the wrong guys. The Flames had some bad managers too, who made some really bad trades. It's hard to compare them when the circumstances were so different.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Balanced team. It's not that hard to realize that we haven't had more than two top 4 defenders for the entire past decade.

 

[Dimensha]

Oilers have had 7 coaches in those 9 years. Don't you think having 7 coaches in 9 years is part of the problem.

Sure thats part of the problem, but so is the awful management unwilling or unable to make the necessary moves to improve the team, ownership unwilling to move on from the OBC despite their consistent failures, brutal pro scouting, mediocre (at best) amateur scouting, questionable training staff when you hear some of the stories about how injuries were dealt with in the past. This organization has been rotten throughout for a long time now, Hopefully Nicholson, Chia, and Mclellan can fix it, but they have their work cut out for them