Speculation: Why are Phil Kessel and Tyler Bozak attached at the hip?

[agropop]

So we now know that you agree Bolland won't carry the line. Who will?
JVR or Clarkson?

Perfectly happy giving both Bolland and Bozak the chance to do it and let their play dictate who's 2 and who's 3. There's a solid group of potential wingers to support them where ever they end up.

People justified Bozaks contract by saying he was only being paid at the 2c range, now is when he should live up to it.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

This all seems like a dream now

 

[The Apologist]

Perfectly happy giving both Bolland and Bozak the chance to do it and let their play dictate who's 2 and who's 3. There's a solid group of potential wingers to support them where ever they end up.

People justified Bozaks contract by saying he was only being paid at the 2c range, now is when he should live up to it.

If you're gonna reply to my post AND quote it, at least have the decency to make your response remotely relevant to what was asked. I don't give a damn who plays on each line as long as they're productive. You've already agreed that Bolland won't carry a line, I've already conceded Bozak can't, so who carries the offence on the second line?

To be perfectly clear, I'm not opposed to someone else playing on line 1 with Kessel. I don't think it's necessary though and counter productive.

 

[Banic]

If you're gonna reply to my post AND quote it, at least have the decency to make your response remotely relevant to what was asked. I don't give a damn who plays on each line as long as they're productive. You've already agreed that Bolland won't carry a line, I've already conceded Bozak can't, so who carries the offence on the second line?

To be perfectly clear, I'm not opposed to someone else playing on line 1 with Kessel. I don't think it's necessary though and counter productive.

Lupul/Clarkson carry the offense. Bolland has proven he has some offensive upside so it's not a stretch to say a line of those 3 would be a solid 2nd.

 

[namttebih]

So your grouping of most productive players stops at Bozak eh?
Why wouldn't you have Lupul on line one? He's a ppg player with both Kadri and Kessel, much more productive than JVR

Lupul is more productive than JVR.

Kadri is much more productive than Bozak.

 

[The Apologist]

Lupul/Clarkson carry the offense. Bolland has proven he has some offensive upside so it's not a stretch to say a line of those 3 would be a solid 2nd.

Two things:
1. If we're sticking with the reasoning that our best players should be on our top line, it would be JVR on the second line, not Lupes.
2. Neither has shown that they can carry a line at any point in their career. Lupul is a finisher, as is JVR.

 

[thewave]

Lupul is more productive than JVR.

Kadri is much more productive than Bozak.

I think that Lupul would work well with Bolland and Raymond. If not Raymond, Kulemin. On one hand you are mixing him with massive speed on the other power in the corners. Bolland is just clutch and can finish and a pretty good version of Bozak.

I don't believe playing people at certain lines because previous teams had. It makes no sense to me in some cases.

 

[The Apologist]

Lupul is more productive than JVR.

Kadri is much more productive than Bozak.

And Kadri/ Lupul and JVR/ Kessel are MUCH more productive than Kadri/ Kessel and JVR or Lupul and Bozak or Bolland.

However, it's good to know that again, the best players on best line rule only seems to apply to Bozak.

 

[The Apologist]

I think that Lupul would work well with Bolland and Raymond. If not Raymond, Kulemin. On one hand you are mixing him with massive speed on the other power in the corners. Bolland is just clutch and can finish and a pretty good version of Bozak.

I don't believe playing people at certain lines because previous teams had. It makes no sense to me in some cases.

You think they'd work based on what? And again, why is it that Kadri has to play on our topine because he's our best Center, but the same rule doesn't apply to Lupul? We already KNOW the lines work the way they are, but they apparently have to be changed to accommodate our best players on our best line, but other than 'I don't like Bozak' what other reason so you have for not applying this across the board?

 

[Banic]

You think they'd work based on what? And again, why is it that Kadri has to play on our topine because he's our best Center, but the same rule doesn't apply to Lupul? We already KNOW the lines work the way they are, but they apparently have to be changed to accommodate our best players on our best line, but other than 'I don't like Bozak' what other reason so you have for not applying this across the board?

The same rule does not apply to Lupul because JVR is putting up great numbers. The difference between JVR and Lupul is subjective but that is not the case with Bozak to Kadri. Bozak is not producing at the pace he should for a 1st line center whereas Kadri would be. Your point is moot based on that fact.

This does not mean I believe all best players have to be on the 1st line. Personally I just want to see Bozak play where he is better suited.

On a secondary scoring line you don't need someone who can "carry" the line all by themselves, or else, I would submit, they would be on the first line.

 

[ACC1224]

The same rule does not apply to Lupul because JVR is putting up great numbers. The difference between JVR and Lupul is subjective but that is not the case with Bozak to Kadri. Bozak is not producing at the pace he should for a 1st line center whereas Kadri would be. Your point is moot based on that fact.

This does not mean I believe all best players have to be on the 1st line. Personally I just want to see Bozak play where he is better suited.

On a secondary scoring line you don't need someone who can "carry" the line all by themselves, or else, I would submit, they would be on the first line.

When things are going well, why is that important?

 

[The Blue Devil]

What's ridiculous is the term 'supporter', but hey keep using it, makes you sound real cool

And again, believing that not every player on the team is not an offensive catalyst is not a slight against the player. It's simple reality.

What do you call someone who supports someone else? I don't think it was meant to be offensive, if he called you a fanboy or something else then you'd have something.

 

[seanlinden]

The same rule does not apply to Lupul because JVR is putting up great numbers. The difference between JVR and Lupul is subjective but that is not the case with Bozak to Kadri. Bozak is not producing at the pace he should for a 1st line center whereas Kadri would be. Your point is moot based on that fact.

This does not mean I believe all best players have to be on the 1st line. Personally I just want to see Bozak play where he is better suited.

On a secondary scoring line you don't need someone who can "carry" the line all by themselves, or else, I would submit, they would be on the first line.

That exact logic applies to Bozak!

The JvR-Bozak-Kessel line produces 1.1 goals per game together. That is excellent top line production. Maybe it's time to stop caring how many points each guy gets, and start worrying about how many goals they score as a unit. When Lupul was there instead of JvR, it was similar levels of production. Tyler Bozak is our #1 centre because the line is able to score at an elite pace with him on it -- simple as that.

You also seem to be of the opinion, that having a 2nd line which can produce comparably to the first, is a bad thing. Kadri & Lupul together can do that. Lupul on his own, cannot.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Scoring more goals than the other team of course wins hockey games, but it's not about how many goals your first line scores, it's about how many goals your TEAM scores.

If Kadri can turn 1.1 into 2, of course he stays there. Heck, if it's 1.5 he should stay there as swell.

2 goals per game out of that line would probably make Kessel a 140 point player. The problem is -- that just isn't remotely realistic. If we exclude Crosby's line, the best in the league tend to put up around 1-1.2 goals per game, and the upper end of that is probably a realistic expectation for Kadri on that line. That means, with Bozak, we're basically already there. It's been proven that Kessel & JvR don't need another catalyst like Kadri for them to put up big numbers.

Meanwhile, Lupul does. He's been almost completely ineffective when not playing alongside Kessel or Kadri.

He's been injured the past 2 games, his foot clearly isn't fully healed and he still managed to score.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In response to the title of the OP

Let's get back to topic here.

Bozak is tied to Kessel because:

Kadri is tied to Lupul (18 goals in 28 games with Kadri)

Bolland is our best Shutdown C, and unlike last year's #3C is producing already 10 points and is a + 5
compared to all of last year's 16 points -10 output.

Pieces fit, this is what is best for the team, 10-4 is the proof.

Winning > Compiling stats for hockey pools

 

[The Apologist]

What do you call someone who supports someone else? I don't think it was meant to be offensive, if he called you a fanboy or something else then you'd have something.

I call myself a Leaf fan. I don't care what name is on the back as long as we win the game. I am no more a Bozak supporter than I am a Kadri supporter, Kessel supporter, Bernier supporter, Reimer supporter....

 

[The Apologist]

He's been injured the past 2 games, his foot clearly isn't fully healed and he still managed to score.

An his only point in those two games came with, guess who? Oh yes, Kadri.

The beauty of this is that he actually played quite a few games long before this season with neither of these two and was largely ineffective. The point stands.

 

[The Apologist]

The same rule does not apply to Lupul because JVR is putting up great numbers. The difference between JVR and Lupul is subjective but that is not the case with Bozak to Kadri. Bozak is not producing at the pace he should for a 1st line center whereas Kadri would be. Your point is moot based on that fact.

But the line is, an the team is winning.

This does not mean I believe all best players have to be on the 1st line. Personally I just want to see Bozak play where he is better suited.

Me too. That appears to be on our top line with our ppg best player and his 60 pt winger.

On a secondary scoring line you don't need someone who can "carry" the line all by themselves, or else, I would submit, they would be on the first line.

Somebody has to carry the offense or none is generated. If there is no offensive catalyst then they become no more than a glorified checking line. I would argue two ppg lines is much better than one slightly over ppg line and three 30 pt lines.

As for being subjective, Lupul has been a PPG player since coming here, JVR is a 55-60 pt player. Would you say the difference between Kadri and Bolland is subjective?

 

[rojac]

I call myself a Leaf fan. I don't care what name is on the back as long as we win the game. I am no more a Bozak supporter than I am a Kadri supporter, Kessel supporter, Bernier supporter, Reimer supporter....

I suspect the Bozak Bashers don't even understand that way of thinking. To me, it looks an unholy alliance of people who seem to care more about individuals than the team, namely, the Grabo Gushers who feel that their boy was pushed out in favour of Bozak and the Kadri Cadre who feel that Bozak is standing in the way of their boy. Hence, anyone who opposes their witch hunt on Bozak is obviously a Bozak supporter.

The whole thing just seems utterly ridiculous to me, because like you, many of us consider us Leaf fans and much as we may love individual players, we know the team is bigger than them. Bozaks, Grabos, and Kadris may come and go, but the Maple Leaf's forever.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I suspect the Bozak Bashers don't even understand that way of thinking. To me, it looks an unholy alliance of people who seem to care more about individuals than the team, namely, the Grabo Gushers who feel that their boy was pushed out in favour of Bozak and the Kadri Cadre who feel that Bozak is standing in the way of their boy. Hence, anyone who opposes their witch hunt on Bozak is obviously a Bozak supporter.

The whole thing just seems utterly ridiculous to me, because like you, many of us consider us Leaf fans and much as we may love individual players, we know the team is bigger than them. Bozaks, Grabos, and Kadris may come and go, but the Maple Leaf's forever.

You pretty much nailed it, what has been erroneously coined as Bozak supporters is really Team Supporters.

I love Kadri as a player, say it again, bring up that thread last summer when Kadri was written off to be a bust. I said he should replace Grabo as our #2C so we can be a better team. Well before it happened and well before he became a fan favourite as he is today.

So I like both players, it's not about pitting one player against the other. It's about what is best for the team.

But there are some that like individuals more than what is best for our team. I call this fans that are poolies, they want stats for their favourites. We saw this with Grabo last year.

So in conclusion, we have one set of fans that are Leafs supporters(not Bozak supporters as they would like it to be framed) and one set of fans that are only interested in propping up individual players.

 

[thewave]

So you are all against trying different things. I see how it is, it's ok to drop Lupul to second line and bump JVR up, it's ok to try different things on other lines but Bozak is married to Kessel no matter what. This kind of thinking is toxic to the team.

Counter intuitive thinking may float your boat but not mine. I want my engine firing damn near perfect and Bozak literally misfires ALL THE TIME! If Kadri has chemistry with the top line and Lupul can work with Bolland, Bozak, Kulemin, Raymond or Clarkson and the output increased, it's as good as done in my mind.

The only combinations for this team should be the best. Your lines of thinking are what kept us in a state of mediocrity for a decade. I am ready for something better.

Grabo, was not tried for any real duration at first and had problems with the coach. He is a PPG on the third line of a crap team right now. If you were all knowing you would not have described him as a black hole etc etc.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

What's hilarious is how we have now divided the fan base into two sides, based on some phony assumption by angry posters who have been backed into a corner by statistical and physical evidence, and they have proclaimed themselves "team people", where everyone who supports playing your best playmaker with your best goal scorer only cares about the stats of individual players.

Boy, That divisive rhetoric is awfully familiar. Good work, guys! You're starting to inch your way into some charted, but un-envious waters, with that kind of nonsense.

 

[thewave]

You pretty much nailed it, what has been erroneously coined as Bozak supporters is really Team Supporters.

I love Kadri as a player, say it again, bring up that thread last summer when Kadri was written off to be a bust. I said he should replace Grabo as our #2C so we can be a better team. Well before it happened and well before he became a fan favourite as he is today.

So I like both players, it's not about pitting one player against the other. It's about what is best for the team.

But there are some that like individuals more than what is best for our team. I call this fans that are poolies, they want stats for their favourites. We saw this with Grabo last year.

So in conclusion, we have one set of fans that are Leafs supporters(not Bozak supporters as they would like it to be framed) and one set of fans that are only interested in propping up individual players.

The last line, propping up individual players, you describe yourself and friends whom wish to prop Bozak.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The last line, propping up individual players, you describe yourself and friends whom wish to prop Bozak.

Irony. This place is so full of it anymore.

 

[Damisoph]

The last line, propping up individual players, you describe yourself and friends whom wish to prop Bozak.

No one props up Bozak. Some of us defend him because the wave of **** is overwhelming in this place when it comes to 42.