Who would you like to see as the next GM and next coach of the Blues?

[Robb_K]

I think it's great he won 3 Cups with Chicago, but I'm still not sold on him taking anyone else to a Cup unless he's walking into a similarly loaded situation. I have even less faith in his ability to be a competent GM.


As it is, Scotty has a largely no-touch job. At 85, his wife isn't about to let him get into a grind again. Besides, if he did help short-term it would be because the successor was Stan Bowman.

I agree. NHL GM is a very demanding job. It is wayyyyyy too demanding, and would be too much for an 85 year old. I know how that goes, working full-time at age 72, and living in 4 different countries, and traveling frequently. 70s are already a LOT tougher to work full-time and travel than were the 60s, and 80s is really tough. One has to reign in one's life quite a bit then to remain healthy. My father worked full-time through his 70s, but had to move down to 3 days per week during his 80s. No way Scotty Bowman takes a full-time NHL executive job. Best he could manage is being a part-time "advisor". Even that is very, very unlikely.

 

[Robb_K]

I would want Quenneville back for coach. Will any decent GM candidates be available. Bill Armstrong would need be an assistant GM for a lot longer, and then act as GM for a few years for an AHL team before I'd trust him with an NHL team. But, I'd rather keep him as The Blues' Head of Amateur Scouting. What good candidares for GM will actually be available this offseason?

 

[Ranksu]

One guy what this franchise can't lose this point is Bill Armstrong.

 

[Bluesguru]

There is a lot to being the general manager of an NHL team.
The job is much bigger than just making trades.

I have to chuckle when people seem to think that a former player, who was good on the ice, will make a good general manager. Can Pronger deal with agents, negotiate contracts, handle the salary cap, have good relations with the league, handle the public aspects of the job, get along with the ownership group, select and get along with the coach, etc?

Who's to say he can't? How do you know he can't? I'm sure he has a better eye for talent or feel for the game than the Gm we have now. Pronger is a competitive dude, if he wants to be a GM then that means he's willing to make the commitment.

 

[Bluesguru]

One guy what this franchise can't lose this point is Bill Armstrong.

We might be throwing maybe too much love his way. I think we might need to cool it a little and see if some of these guys develop.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We might be throwing maybe too much love his way. I think we might need to cool it a little and see if some of these guys develop.

2011 - Everyone got super hyped for Rattie and Jaskin; they both crapped out. Edmundson was the star of our picks; who knows with Binnington, because I think he'll stay buried and end up walking this summer. So, he "won" on Edmundson, but blew picks at 32 and 41 in front of that.

2012 - People got really hyped for Schmaltz; I think a lot of people are realizing that was a bad pick. And he's been overshadowed in that draft by Parayko. And, in between those two there was ... Sam Kurker, who had flashing warning lights on him before he got drafted and mailed in his hockey career. I think MacEachern gets a call-up and a few games before he's done. Lindbohm got 40 games in as a 6th-round pick, that's a win in any book.

2013 - He had all of four (4) picks to work with; Carrier has been OK but not what a handful of people said he would be. Vanelli was a total bust.

2014 - There's Fabbri, and then Barbashev (who continues to show flashes but largely underwhelm), and then Blais (who people had anointed as a future 20-goal scorer and who's showing he's really a ... 4th-line energy guy). Maybe there's Walman, maybe there's Husso.

2015 - There's Dunn so far. I think Adam Musil has a chance to scratch out a career as a 4th-liner [as long as "he's gotta score in the AHL" doesn't become the measuring stick for him getting a chance in the NHL], I think Mikkola has a chance to scratch out time as a 5/6 guy.

The other 3 years are too immature to judge, and really '14 and '15 are still technically incomplete but you're getting a sign of what to expect.

When you take a serious look at BA's record so far, what's the hype based on? Four guys, and the hopes pinned to at least 4 more.We reliably have gotten a 1st-pairing guy, a couple 2nd-pairing guys, a (one) top-6 forward, and a handful of 4th-line guys. I'm not saying he's done a terrible job, I'm just saying that's not irreplaceable by any stretch.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

2011 - Everyone got super hyped for Rattie and Jaskin; they both crapped out. Edmundson was the star of our picks; who knows with Binnington, because I think he'll stay buried and end up walking this summer. So, he "won" on Edmundson, but blew picks at 32 and 41 in front of that.

2012 - People got really hyped for Schmaltz; I think a lot of people are realizing that was a bad pick. And he's been overshadowed in that draft by Parayko. And, in between those two there was ... Sam Kurker, who had flashing warning lights on him before he got drafted and mailed in his hockey career. I think MacEachern gets a call-up and a few games before he's done. Lindbohm got 40 games in as a 6th-round pick, that's a win in any book.

2013 - He had all of four (4) picks to work with; Carrier has been OK but not what a handful of people said he would be. Vanelli was a total bust.

2014 - There's Fabbri, and then Barbashev (who continues to show flashes but largely underwhelm), and then Blais (who people had anointed as a future 20-goal scorer and who's showing he's really a ... 4th-line energy guy). Maybe there's Walman, maybe there's Husso.

2015 - There's Dunn so far. I think Adam Musil has a chance to scratch out a career as a 4th-liner [as long as "he's gotta score in the AHL" doesn't become the measuring stick for him getting a chance in the NHL], I think Mikkola has a chance to scratch out time as a 5/6 guy.

The other 3 years are too immature to judge, and really '14 and '15 are still technically incomplete but you're getting a sign of what to expect.

When you take a serious look at BA's record so far, what's the hype based on? Four guys, and the hopes pinned to at least 4 more.We reliably have gotten a 1st-pairing guy, a couple 2nd-pairing guys, a (one) top-6 forward, and a handful of 4th-line guys. I'm not saying he's done a terrible job, I'm just saying that's not irreplaceable by any stretch.

The Thomas and Kyrou picks are better players than you expect at those spots. To ignore that as plus value hurts Armstrong's resume. But I realize they're projections at this point.

Even some of your disappointments (like Jaskin / Blais / Barbashev / even maybe Schmaltz) have outperformed the usual chance of becoming NHL players at their relative draft positions. Maybe someone with more time and motivation than me could show a recap of Bill Armstrong's pics relative to their expected games played at draft position.

But I'm not convinced being a really good amateur scout director means you're prepared to be a GM of an NHL team. I wouldn't put him in my top candidates. He just got a promotion, and needs to get some road under his tires there first.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The Thomas and Kyrou picks are better players than you expect at those spots. To ignore that as plus value hurts Armstrong's resume. But I realize they're projections at this point.

Even some of your disappointments (like Jaskin / Blais / Barbashev / even maybe Schmaltz) have outperformed the usual chance of becoming NHL players at their relative draft positions. Maybe someone with more time and motivation than me could show a recap of Bill Armstrong's pics relative to their expected games played at draft position.

But I'm not convinced being a really good amateur scout director means you're prepared to be a GM of an NHL team. I wouldn't put him in my top candidates. He just got a promotion, and needs to get some road under his tires there first.

Blais is a hit, for the record. You have a 6th-round pick play in the NHL for even a game, that's always a hit.

Jaskin, Rattie, Barbashev, ... Jaskin has slightly outperformed. Rattie has clearly underperformed. Barbashev has slightly outperformed, but that's because he put up 5-7-12 in 30 games in his rookie season. Schmaltz, ... he's a better pick than Griffin Reinhart [#4 overall, 37 GP, when Vegas took him in the expansion draft that was already his 3rd franchise and he's trying to put it together in the AHL] but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. He's also not Brady Skjei or Tanner Pearson, both of who I wanted that year when we came around to draft.

But you underscore my point. BA has been ... average. All the hype is predicated on Thomas and Kyrou [and Bokk and even Kostin]. I'm not saying Thomas or Kyrou are bad picks [I think Thomas has legit top-6 upside, provided the Blues don't f*** that up; Kyrou, I'm less sold on but he should be a decent NHL player], I'm just saying if they don't pan out as some Blues fans are expecting I think it really takes the luster off of BA's work [well, until the next year's prospects come along and get massive expectations attached]. He's by no means irreplaceable, and ideas of putting him in the GM's chair even in a few years are just mind-boggling to me.

 

[Bluesguru]

2011 - Everyone got super hyped for Rattie and Jaskin; they both crapped out. Edmundson was the star of our picks; who knows with Binnington, because I think he'll stay buried and end up walking this summer. So, he "won" on Edmundson, but blew picks at 32 and 41 in front of that.

2012 - People got really hyped for Schmaltz; I think a lot of people are realizing that was a bad pick. And he's been overshadowed in that draft by Parayko. And, in between those two there was ... Sam Kurker, who had flashing warning lights on him before he got drafted and mailed in his hockey career. I think MacEachern gets a call-up and a few games before he's done. Lindbohm got 40 games in as a 6th-round pick, that's a win in any book.

2013 - He had all of four (4) picks to work with; Carrier has been OK but not what a handful of people said he would be. Vanelli was a total bust.

2014 - There's Fabbri, and then Barbashev (who continues to show flashes but largely underwhelm), and then Blais (who people had anointed as a future 20-goal scorer and who's showing he's really a ... 4th-line energy guy). Maybe there's Walman, maybe there's Husso.

2015 - There's Dunn so far. I think Adam Musil has a chance to scratch out a career as a 4th-liner [as long as "he's gotta score in the AHL" doesn't become the measuring stick for him getting a chance in the NHL], I think Mikkola has a chance to scratch out time as a 5/6 guy.

The other 3 years are too immature to judge, and really '14 and '15 are still technically incomplete but you're getting a sign of what to expect.

When you take a serious look at BA's record so far, what's the hype based on? Four guys, and the hopes pinned to at least 4 more.We reliably have gotten a 1st-pairing guy, a couple 2nd-pairing guys, a (one) top-6 forward, and a handful of 4th-line guys. I'm not saying he's done a terrible job, I'm just saying that's not irreplaceable by any stretch.

And Parayko was discovered by John Davidson's brother. Everyone keeps saying Bill Armstrong, Bill Armstrong, but I haven't seen a whole lot yet. And passing up Ryan Donato and Christian Dvorak, 2 kids with NHL bloodlines, for Maxim Letunov in the 2nd rd still bugs me. Can't believe Schmaltz is getting treated like a bust but maybe he is. Had high hopes for the kid but the organization treats him like kryptonite.

 

[tt77]

how the f*** have you guys not found a new coach yet? armstrong is a f***in joke

 

[Stealth JD]

Pronger and John Cooper. Yes, I know. No, I don't care.

 

[Saint Loser]

Steve Yzerman cut his executive teeth for three years in Detroit's organization before he was blocked and eventually bolted for the GM job in TB.

Pronger has one year of executive experience, so far, at a lower level than where Yzerman entered, but maybe he can be brought in to learn the ropes and succeed DA when it is time.

I want DA gone, but like others have rightfully pointed out, he has three years (I think) on his current contract.

Can or will DA be bought out? I hope so, but I doubt it.

 

[DeuceNine]

GM - Me
Coach - Jacques Demers

If only dealing with actual GMs was like hitting "trade" on NHL19

 

[Robb_K]

I'd want Joel Quenneville as coach. I don't know who is or will become available for GM.

 

[TruBlu]

Blais is a hit, for the record. You have a 6th-round pick play in the NHL for even a game, that's always a hit.

Jaskin, Rattie, Barbashev, ... Jaskin has slightly outperformed. Rattie has clearly underperformed. Barbashev has slightly outperformed, but that's because he put up 5-7-12 in 30 games in his rookie season. Schmaltz, ... he's a better pick than Griffin Reinhart [#4 overall, 37 GP, when Vegas took him in the expansion draft that was already his 3rd franchise and he's trying to put it together in the AHL] but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. He's also not Brady Skjei or Tanner Pearson, both of who I wanted that year when we came around to draft.

But you underscore my point. BA has been ... average. All the hype is predicated on Thomas and Kyrou [and Bokk and even Kostin]. I'm not saying Thomas or Kyrou are bad picks [I think Thomas has legit top-6 upside, provided the Blues don't **** that up; Kyrou, I'm less sold on but he should be a decent NHL player], I'm just saying if they don't pan out as some Blues fans are expecting I think it really takes the luster off of BA's work [well, until the next year's prospects come along and get massive expectations attached]. He's by no means irreplaceable, and ideas of putting him in the GM's chair even in a few years are just mind-boggling to me.

I'd say he's better than average seeing as how we've been a playoff team those years. It's not like we've been picking in the top ten all those years.

 

[Celtic Note]

Stillman could ask Armstrong to sit as President of hockey ops. Then hire a GM for underneath him. It’s been done before as a succession planning

 

[mw2noobbuster]

Still Yzerman.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Stillman could ask Armstrong to sit as President of hockey ops. Then hire a GM for underneath him. It’s been done before as a succession planning

No. We do not want DA in this organization overseeing anything. Stillman may have to eat the rest of that contract unless someone else wants DA to run their team. [Which, if DA thinks he can have a job elsewhere tomorrow, give him the boot tonight and lock the doors behind him and let him get to looking now and let someone else assume his contract.]

 

[Celtic Note]

No. We do not want DA in this organization overseeing anything. Stillman may have to eat the rest of that contract unless someone else wants DA to run their team. [Which, if DA thinks he can have a job elsewhere tomorrow, give him the boot tonight and lock the doors behind him and let him get to looking now and let someone else assume his contract.]

Didn’t say I wanted it

 

[Saint Loser]

No. We do not want DA in this organization overseeing anything. Stillman may have to eat the rest of that contract unless someone else wants DA to run their team. [Which, if DA thinks he can have a job elsewhere tomorrow, give him the boot tonight and lock the doors behind him and let him get to looking now and let someone else assume his contract.]

That's the way I see it, IB. Buy out DA or let another team take him. He will find a soft landing spot. I know Stillman is trying to save staff payroll, but not having a layer between DA and the owner is not good at all.

I'm torn. The Blues are close to being out of it, but close enough to being right back in the hunt for a playoff spot.

If, by the end of December, the Blues are only 5 points out of a WC spot, then maybe look into buying out DA and bringing in an entirely new staff WITH a president of hockey ops as insulation.

If the Blues fall further out, then Stillman must handcuff DA and bring in a new staff before the end of the season.

Good points about BA, in that he has a decent draft record.

But looking at Colorado earlier today and they have had their amateur scouts in place for a while ad they've not done very well either. Granted, they hit three home runs with Landeskog, Mackinnon and Rantanen, I guess that qualifies as pretty awesome, but beyond that they have Jost and Timmins on the roster.

Not that impressive.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I would like to see someone who is more proactive instead of reactive as GM. I’m so sick of Armstrong seeing a glimmer of hope in players who do well for a week and then are completely useless or harmful for 3 weeks. Every year we have a new “identity” due to trying to mimic a team that created an actual game plan the year before instead of finding a coach with a plan and strategy that fits the roster you create. At this point I don’t give a shit who the coach is. If everyone is so wishy-washy going forward we’re going to suck anyways. I can forgive a guy for having a string of bad games in a row but for a team to just disappear as a whole for a whole period each game is getting so frustrating to watch.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

If, by the end of December, the Blues are only 5 points out of a WC spot, then maybe look into buying out DA and bringing in an entirely new staff WITH a president of hockey ops as insulation.

If the Blues fall further out, then Stillman must handcuff DA and bring in a new staff before the end of the season.

If they're 5 points out at the end of this month, DA is going to have a partial green light to make moves and keep spending where it was at the start of the season to try and salvage the playoffs. If they're farther out, he'll have a partial green light to do what he thinks is necessary to re-position this team for the playoffs next year.

DA is a sunk cost at this point. Ownership is going to have to fork over money to get out from under him and move on. It's going to suck, and a few members of ownership aren't going to be thrilled about being asked to put up cash to do it, but for this franchise to move forward they have to dump a guy who's clearly been loose and irresponsible with the wallet and has the franchise pointing in the wrong direction.

Or, they can keep going with what they've got - which is a crappy environment and the scent of despair and job-saving at any cost - and hope that somehow things turn out different.

 

[Saint Loser]

If they're 5 points out at the end of this month, DA is going to have a partial green light to make moves and keep spending where it was at the start of the season to try and salvage the playoffs. If they're farther out, he'll have a partial green light to do what he thinks is necessary to re-position this team for the playoffs next year.

DA is a sunk cost at this point. Ownership is going to have to fork over money to get out from under him and move on. It's going to suck, and a few members of ownership aren't going to be thrilled about being asked to put up cash to do it, but for this franchise to move forward they have to dump a guy who's clearly been loose and irresponsible with the wallet and has the franchise pointing in the wrong direction.

Or, they can keep going with what they've got - which is a crappy environment and the scent of despair and job-saving at any cost - and hope that somehow things turn out different.

I can see this as well

 

[JoshFromMO]

But looking at Colorado earlier today and they have had their amateur scouts in place for a while ad they've not done very well either. Granted, they hit three home runs with Landeskog, Mackinnon and Rantanen, I guess that qualifies as pretty awesome, but beyond that they have Jost and Timmins on the roster.

Not that impressive.

Those are literally all top 10 draft picks besides Timmins, so I don't think scouting had much to do with that

 

[Saint Loser]

Then that is even less impressive.