Speculation: Who will we draft with #4? Part II

[Mess]

Well "the next Sakic" is a bit unfair to Barzal right now.

But he's a very talented player.

Barzal is often compared to the Edmonton Oilers Ryan Nugent-Hopkins who came through the same Burnaby Winter Club program. Barzal acknowledges some similarities in their games but points to another NHL star he likes to emulate. “I really like to watch Claude Giroux,” he says. “I think we have pretty similar characteristics on the ice. He’s a passer but he likes to score and he’s always there in the big moments.”

Giroux also kills penalties, something Barzal is being asked to do this year for the first time in his WHL career. “I think that really completes you as a player,” Barzal says. “I still can get better at it, I still have some things to learn.”

 

[kihei]

I've been impressed in the playoffs with Kucherov for Tampa. I want me one of those. He probably was pretty close to Marner's size at 17. Skill now, size later.

 

[Woll Smoth]

I voted for Strome as I think Hanifin will be going 3rd over all. If Arizona is dumb and doesn't choose him then take Hanifin with a HUGE smile.

I want a team like Anaheim, LA and Washington. I want to be big, I want to be skilled and I want to be intimidating and Toronto needs to make a conscience decision to go this route. If the best player available is a kid who is 5'10" then maybe moving down in the draft is the best option.

That is just my opinion and probably not the most popular one. I just see the game as the team with the best defense and a decent offence has the best chance at winning.

Crouse is your guy then.

Strome isn't physical enough to be called intimidating

 

[Nithoniniel]

Crouse is your guy then.

Strome isn't physical enough to be called intimidating

Things change. If RtooDtu wants big and intimidating, Strome has the capability even if he's not that player now.

It's all pretty moot though in my opinion. Projecting development in a general sense is hard enough, if you go down "what-if"-roads of development it all just becomes a jungle.

 

[kihei]

Because 95% of Leafs fans or NHL fans don't watch junior hockey period. They hear Stromes name in the media more than Marner or Hanifan and jump on the bandwagon.

Dunno. About the time this thread's poll went up, I thought it was assumed that Arizona was going to grab Strome which I think hampered his support considerably. Now it seems everybody's not so sure what Arizona is going to do, so Strome is back in play to some extent.

 

[Menzinger]

Things change. If RtooDtu wants big and intimidating, Strome has the capability even if he's not that player now.

It's all pretty moot though in my opinion. Projecting development in a general sense is hard enough, if you go down "what-if"-roads of development it all just becomes a jungle.

Strome would have a much easier time learning to be intimidating than Crouse will learning how to develop offense.

Regardless, I don't really see 'intimidation' as the same thing as 'good defence'.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I voted for Strome as I think Hanifin will be going 3rd over all. If Arizona is dumb and doesn't choose him then take Hanifin with a HUGE smile.

I want a team like Anaheim, LA and Washington. I want to be big, I want to be skilled and I want to be intimidating and Toronto needs to make a conscience decision to go this route. If the best player available is a kid who is 5'10" then maybe moving down in the draft is the best option.

That is just my opinion and probably not the most popular one. I just see the game as the team with the best defense and a decent offence has the best chance at winning.

I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting a team full of big, strong, skilled players.

 

[Mess]

I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting a team full of big, strong, skilled players.

Yet Marner at 5-11/160lbs is the wish list to be added to Nylander, Brown and Leipsic all < 6 feet tall and smaller skilled players as their top 4 forward prospects.

That is the exact opposite of a team full of big, strong skilled players. Therein lies the problem.

Leafs with Brown -- Nylander -- Marner are essentially trying to build TB 2nd line of Kucherov -- Johnson -- Palat equivalent. If Leafs trio worked out to be that successful it would feel like a home run drafting ...

However TB was using their top picks on Stamkos and Hedman their #1C and #1D and UFA and later round picks to build that 2nd line.

Leafs are essentially in a position at #4 now to fill that #1C or #1D quota.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Agree. Get that #1D and that's Hanifin. Get it over with.

Leafs should follow the Blackhawks exact model: Keith/Seabrook - Kane/Toews. Try to get Barzal if possible. Even if we do draft Marner; he's a Kane type. It's a win/win.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Leafs with Brown -- Nylander -- Marner are essentially trying to build TB 2nd line of Kucherov -- Johnson -- Palat equivalent. If Leafs trio worked out to be that successful it would feel like a home run drafting ....

That line would score a ton of goals, just need a big guy in that line. Look at JVR, soft as butter cause he can't hit. I'd rather go with skill and balance. Gauthier intrigues me cause of his size, he could prove valuable.

 

[Stand Witness]

Yet Marner at 5-11/160lbs is the wish list to be added to Nylander, Brown and Leipsic all < 6 feet tall and smaller skilled players as their top 4 forward prospects.

That is the exact opposite of a team full of big, strong skilled players. Therein lies the problem.

Leafs with Brown -- Nylander -- Marner are essentially trying to build TB 2nd line of Kucherov -- Johnson -- Palat equivalent. If Leafs trio worked out to be that successful it would feel like a home run drafting ...

However TB was using their top picks on Stamkos and Hedman their #1C and #1D and UFA and later round picks to build that 2nd line.

Leafs are essentially in a position at #4 now to fill that #1C or #1D quota.

I am sure teams are shaking in their skates when they have to match up against all 6'0 190 lbs of Stamkos. Or maybe it is his skill? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/steven-stamkos

You draft for skill. End of story.

If you are drafting for size in the top 5 you might as well just go home as losers already.

 

[Duffman955]

Get a #1C or a #1D. Anything less is unacceptable

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Yet Marner at 5-11/160lbs is the wish list to be added to Nylander, Brown and Leipsic all < 6 feet tall and smaller skilled players as their top 4 forward prospects.

That is the exact opposite of a team full of big, strong skilled players. Therein lies the problem.

The Maple Leafs rebuild is just beginning so they'll have other opportunities to draft players with size; there'll be plenty of good players with size available @ next year's draft.

Lets not be short-sighted and draft skill > size

 

[Maple Leaf]

Get a #1C or a #1D. Anything less is unacceptable

Nah B
Get the best player available

 

[Menzinger]

Marner AINEC. Hanifin is overrated and Strome does not have half the skill of Marner. Strome is just living off the fame of his brother.

Dylan is considered to be a much better propsect than his brother....

 

[burpsalot]

Yet Marner at 5-11/160lbs is the wish list to be added to Nylander, Brown and Leipsic all < 6 feet tall and smaller skilled players as their top 4 forward prospects.

That is the exact opposite of a team full of big, strong skilled players. Therein lies the problem.

Leafs with Brown -- Nylander -- Marner are essentially trying to build TB 2nd line of Kucherov -- Johnson -- Palat equivalent. If Leafs trio worked out to be that successful it would feel like a home run drafting ...

However TB was using their top picks on Stamkos and Hedman their #1C and #1D and UFA and later round picks to build that 2nd line.

Leafs are essentially in a position at #4 now to fill that #1C or #1D quota.

Yzerman was drafted #4 as well & he's with TB & he's 5'11" like Marner & Detroit had Larionov, Hull & Datsyuk all less than 6'.

This is destiny.

 

[onlygotmygrade10]

Didn't read all almost 40 pages now but a couple things stuck out.

If you want to pick based on need - the Leafs have been a bad defensive team for how long, yet somehow a #1 C is needed more? That doesn't make sense to me.

Back to positions of need, they need everything. A team that is having top 10 picks in successive years should not be picky. Who knows what the needs are by the time they're in the pros.

That being said, having only played C growing up, watching games, I don't watch d and think 'that guy is really good defensively'. I don't know how to judge it, so the most offensive players naturally have an appeal for me as well. Fortunately they are in the enviable position where they can just pick one of those guys, can't really go wrong.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

If I'm the Leafs, I do everything I can to get another top 10 pick. Plenty of center prospects where there upside is #1C (Barzal, Zacha, Marner, Strome). That allows you to be very aggressive in drafting Hanafin. Hanafin + one of those 4 players would be an amazing draft.

 

[TimeZone]

I see us picking Strome.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Oh so we can look back to when Anaheim won it but ignore Detroit winning it with a small roster?

More double standard in action

So you think 1 Detroit win is a better % to the 6 teams built for size and skill most recent examples I cited. LA 2X, Chicago 2X, Anaheim and Boston cup winners. You banking on low % outliers to recent size and skill working? Detroit have not gotten out of the west since they won their last cup! Wake up man, have you seen their last 4 drafts and the average size of their top picks? Keep ignoring what is working recently. Detroit and others are catching on even if you are not.

 

[Stephen]

Yet Marner at 5-11/160lbs is the wish list to be added to Nylander, Brown and Leipsic all < 6 feet tall and smaller skilled players as their top 4 forward prospects.

That is the exact opposite of a team full of big, strong skilled players. Therein lies the problem.

Leafs with Brown -- Nylander -- Marner are essentially trying to build TB 2nd line of Kucherov -- Johnson -- Palat equivalent. If Leafs trio worked out to be that successful it would feel like a home run drafting ...

However TB was using their top picks on Stamkos and Hedman their #1C and #1D and UFA and later round picks to build that 2nd line.

Leafs are essentially in a position at #4 now to fill that #1C or #1D quota.

I would say though that if Mitch Marner turns out to be exactly what he's been advertised to be, you're going to regret not taking him just because you had a Brown or Leipsic in the system.

Take the 1993 draft as an example. That's kind of like passing up on an 18 year old Paul Kariya because you have Nikolai Borschevsky in the system... Tampa didn't do so well taking Chris Gratton.

 

[Purity*]

So you think 1 Detroit win is a better % to the 6 teams built for size and skill most recent examples I cited. LA 2X, Chicago 2X, Anaheim and Boston cup winners. You banking on low % outliers to recent size and skill working? Detroit have not gotten out of the west since they won their last cup! Wake up man, have you seen their last 4 drafts and the average size of their top picks? Keep ignoring what is working recently. Detroit and others are catching on even if you are not.

Except I showed that Chicago isn't built for size whatsoever. I ain't ignoring **** all.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Good point .. Kessel to Philly for Brayden Schenn + 7th overall

Then if Leafs don't want to take Barzal at #4 they can at #7.

That's a trade I would have no problem seeing them make and chances are I think Barzal would be available at #7.

 

[Stephen]

No one is suggesting this. I keep repeating this there is a place for a Kane, Wiliams, And even Kessel on teams if the team is built with size and skill to make a long playoff run. But you do not build a team with 24 Kane's either. This is what Futa is saying. You can have a few, but not a plethora of small players.

Looking at the last 5 cup winners, and even back to Anaheim when they won it. It's obvious why Futa's philosophy has worked.

I agree with that. This is why it's critically important for the Leafs to stock up on as many picks as possible, so they can draft for the home run skill players, draft the sleeper skill guys and also go fishing for the bigger body foot soldiers. In essence, we need a lot of everything, so we need to be squeezing out an extra 1/3 or 2/3 of a draft class every single year.

 

[Stephen]

McDavid and Barzal have been considered among top top 97 born draft class for years. Barzal is regarded as one of the top options behind Erie Otters star Connor McDavid for the 2015 NHL draft class.

He doesn't get the recognition he deserves because he plays in the west. Most of the media scouts covering the draft are located in the East, in places like Toronto or New York, and may pay less attention to the teams playing in the WHL.

“It is what it is,” Barzal says. “I know at the end of the day that if you’re playing good hockey out here somebody’s going to recognize.”

I'm intrigued by Barzal but at the same time, they said Gilbert Brule was the West's answer to Crosby, and there were whispers some scouts preferred Phil Kessel to Crosby too. Sometimes things change, the gap widens and other prospects step up.

Right now, Marner and Hanifin are better prospects and so is Strome.