Who will retire with more individual awards: Crosby or Ovechkin?

[izzy]

messier award means nothing

 

[ricky0034]

Ovi with 3 more rockets?

Not a chance, age will see to that.

We're already seeing the decline this year, and it will only get worse.

way too early to say that based on one bad year where he's still finishing top 10 in goals right after he literally just won 4 consecutive rockets

he's the only player to put up 50 goals in the past few years which he did 3 years in a row and nobody else even put up 40 more than once,this was literally last year

but he slumps for a few months and now he's done?

age will be a factor going forward but it's WAY too soon to count him out

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Calder should be in it since they both entered the league at the same time and the Messier should be dropped.

Will be close, maybe Ovi.

They entered at the same time, but Ovechkin was 2 years older. I have no horse in the race, but Crosby was a much better player at 18 than Ovechkin.

 

[FinProspects]

Shocking, but I just looked and this is Crosbys points totals last seven years...

66
37
56
104
84
85
84 (so far)

One season was great - but other than that, nothing really that impressive or "best on the planet". Injuries are a major part of it - but the numbers are still the numbers.

Don't be surprised in 2 years when Crosby is ovi's age he's also in the 70 point range. It's close to that already.

Yes, 127 missed games during the timespan could have a bit of an effect.

But I agree with you, numbers=numbers: Sid has 516 points in those games. Ovie has 503. Only player that has more points in the last 7 years is Kane with 520. It really is shocking.

 

[FinProspects]

Ovechkin gets the 09 ross, 10 ross+rocket+hart if not for a couple of flukey missed games.

It's strange how people want to give Crosby fantasy rosses/harts in seasons he was the PPG leader after 30 games, but they don't give the same benefit to Ovechkin even though he was the leader over 70+ games.

07/08: Crosby led the scoring after 40ish games (tied with Vinny Lecavalier), then injured. Yes, Ovie was red hot then, but you never know how that would have ended.

12/13: Crosby led the scoring (yeah, as well as the PPG) by 10 points after 36 games. The missed the last 12, but finished 3rd in the scoring, 4p behind St Louis.

10/11: Crosby led the scoring by 8 points after 41 games.

In all these three seasons: Not ppg, but scoring.

I definately give Ovie the 09/10. But remember, he also got the Hart in 12/13 because of Crosbys injury. I reeeally, really dont see that Ovie has been missing out any individual trophies, simply because has always been healthy. Kudos to him for that. I think his hardware is very much in line with his performance during the years. With Sid, its really not, since he has missed approximately 160 regular season games. That is two full lost seasons.

As for the topic, Ovie will win this, just waaay too many maurices that guy has.

 

[Sam Spade]

Yes, 127 missed games during the timespan could have a bit of an effect.

But I agree with you, numbers=numbers: Sid has 516 points in those games. Ovie has 503. Only player that has more points in the last 7 years is Kane with 520. It really is shocking.

It is very impressive.

I also find Ovechkin's 42 more goals over the next closest player during that time period pretty impressive as well. Basically an entire season better than anyone else.

91 more than Crosby.

 

[Voight]

I definately give Ovie the 09/10. But remember, he also got the Hart in 12/13 because of Crosbys injury. I reeeally, really dont see that Ovie has been missing out any individual trophies, simply because has always been healthy. Kudos to him for that. I think his hardware is very much in line with his performance during the years. With Sid, its really not, since he has missed approximately 160 regular season games. That is two full lost seasons.

As for the topic, Ovie will win this, just waaay too many maurices that guy has.

Ovy would have won the Ross in both 2009 & 2010 if he had played just 2-4 more games. So now he'd have

2009
Art Ross

2010
Art Ross
Richard
Hart

So in total he would have 3x Art Ross (all in a row), 7 Richards and 4 Harts. Quite the haul.

Ovi with 3 more rockets?

Not a chance, age will see to that.

We're already seeing the decline this year, and it will only get worse.

Elite goal scorers seem to do fine in their 30s. Gartner still put up 40 G seasons, Brett Hull was top 10 in goals 3x after turning 30, Robitaille twice same with Esposito, Selanne, Jagr etc. & he's playing hurt this year, so not a shocker his goal scoring is down.

I can't wait till he leads the league next year and half the people in this thread put their foot in their mouth.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

I can't wait till he leads the league next year and half the people in this thread put their foot in their mouth.

Just a quick question.

If Ovie regresses a bit more next season, will you agree to put your foot in your mouth?

 

[Refuse]

I still don't see the point. They weren't in competition for the best in the world that year and the calder is clearly a lesser award. If you're comparing the trophy case of two players, I've never seen the value in using it.

This topic is about individual awards Crosby vs Ovechkin. The Calder trophy was a two horse race between these exact two players we're comparing here. Ovechkin got it. It's a lesser award because it went to the wrong player or what?

 

[FinProspects]

Ovy would have won the Ross in both 2009 & 2010 if he had played just 2-4 more games. So now he'd have

2009
Art Ross

2010
Art Ross
Richard
Hart

So in total he would have 3x Art Ross (all in a row), 7 Richards and 4 Harts. Quite the haul.



Elite goal scorers seem to do fine in their 30s. Gartner still put up 40 G seasons, Brett Hull was top 10 in goals 3x after turning 30, Robitaille twice same with Esposito, Selanne, Jagr etc. & he's playing hurt this year, so not a shocker his goal scoring is down.

I can't wait till he leads the league next year and half the people in this thread put their foot in their mouth.

In the what if game he would have missed out the 12/13 season Hart. But yes, youre correct he probably would have won the Art in 09 as well. Still, even if he would have won it, I personally wouldnt see Ovie any different. He is a legend, arguably top3 goal scorer ever, had the best peak for any player in 2000's and is a lock to hhof. His personal hardware is already so stacked, it really even doesnt make any sense. We just need to see him having at least one good run for the cup, that would make a big difference in his legacy.

And I couldnt give a rats ass if he wouldnt win any Richards anymore. He simply doesnt have anything to prove anyone, especially in goal scoring. People can look at those seven 50goal seasons and keep it silent. If he is able to score 30g seasons for the rest of his career, that would be enough to put him ahead of anyone basically in terms of goals.

 

[Regal]

This topic is about individual awards Crosby vs Ovechkin. The Calder trophy was a two horse race between these exact two players we're comparing here. Ovechkin got it. It's a lesser award because it went to the wrong player or what?

It's a lesser award because it's a lesser award. I can't believe people think otherwise honestly. Everyone's rightfully dismissing the Messier. The Calder has just as little value to me. I don't care who's better.

 

[Regal]

Ovy would have won the Ross in both 2009 & 2010 if he had played just 2-4 more games. So now he'd have

2009
Art Ross

2010
Art Ross
Richard
Hart

So in total he would have 3x Art Ross (all in a row), 7 Richards and 4 Harts. Quite the haul.



Elite goal scorers seem to do fine in their 30s. Gartner still put up 40 G seasons, Brett Hull was top 10 in goals 3x after turning 30, Robitaille twice same with Esposito, Selanne, Jagr etc. & he's playing hurt this year, so not a shocker his goal scoring is down.

I can't wait till he leads the league next year and half the people in this thread put their foot in their mouth.

I would argue it's harder to speculate when you're looking at tiny samples like 3 games. The awards for 2010 make sense, because I can't see Ovechkin not scoring at least a goal and 3 points in those 10 games he missed. Having to score 3 points in 3 games in 2008 is a lot less of a sure thing.

 

[KnoccOut]

Crosby fans bring up points vs Ovechkin

And

Crosby fans bring up goals vs Mcdavid


Picking and choosing

 

[Caps8112]

It's a lesser award because it's a lesser award. I can't believe people think otherwise honestly. Everyone's rightfully dismissing the Messier. The Calder has just as little value to me. I don't care who's better.

obviously not as glamorous as a hart or ross but if crosby had won it we would be hearing how he revolutionized the Calder and made it the trophy to win

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

If the penguins ever keep a somewhat healthy lineup for some upcoming seasons. Crosby could win a few more Art Ross trophies.