Who will McDavid surpass for best single peak regular season? Jagr vs Ovi vs Crosby vs Malkin

[bobholly39]

In my opinion - Connor McDavid's best season so far doesn't surpass any of Ovechkin's, Jagr's, Crosby's nor Malkin's best. Here's my justification:

2017-2018, good season, but behind the other 4
2018-2019, Good season, but beaten for all awards
2019-2020 Pandemic cut short, and also beaten for awards
Current season - not done yet

Maybe some of you disagree - but in my mind it's pretty clear he's in 5th place among this group for best full regular season so far.

That being said - in terms of offensive talent, he's every bit as good as those players, and has the potential to surpass them all for peak season. His current pace 30 games into this year is insane, and he probably has more to come in coming years.

So make a prediction. By the time McDavid retires - who will McDavid have surpassed among these players for best single peak season? (if you think he already surpassed some of them - just vote for them).

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[The Moose is Loose]

Went with Malkin and Crosby. Which I know is saying a lot, but his play this year is hitting another gear, we need to see how the last 20 games play out but if he holds this pace, that’s over anything the Penguins duo did in my opinion, largely due to health. I wish we saw 82 games of Crosby in 2010, but in scenarios like this you give the nod to the healthy guy over the “what if”, which is unfortunate they can’t exactly be compared head to head.

Ovi is a trickey one for me since he couldn’t care less about defense especially in his early years, but offensively the guy was a machine. Winning the Art Ross while blowing the competition away in goals is a hell of a feat. Hard to say how that compares to McDavid, likely better but if McDavid can up his pace slightly and get 100 points in 56 games, then that’s probably the best season since Lemieux

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Hasn't he already surpassed Malkin's best year?

 

[Madap]

If McDavid can continue this pace for the season then he'll have passed them. 50 goal + 145 point pace? Insane. Obviously there's still a bunch of games to go, but if he does it, I hope we don't hear anything about a "weak division" or "short season", because its just another lame excuse to discredit him.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Hasn't he already surpassed Malkin's best year?

No way. Malkin's 2012 season was quite excellent. 50 goals and 109 points in the lowest scoring season post lockout.

 

[Canovin]

If McDavid sweeps the awards, then he beats all of them

 

[Fataldogg]

He will surpass Crosby and Malkin in terms of peak season. I have a hard time seeing him surpass Ovechkin or Jagr's peak.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If McDavid sweeps the awards, then he beats all of them

That's an interesting standard seeing as how Ovie swept all of the awards.

 

[Midnight Judges]

In a shortened season there is a real disadvantage. Maintaining a productivity for 56 games is far easier than for 82. So there is less opportunity to do something amazing.

 

[Adamantoise]

Right now, Mcdavid is playing more dominant hockey than Crosby, Malkin or OV ever did. He leads the league in goals and assists and has mindblowing advanced stats.

I guess if he scores 100 points In 56 game season, itll be up there with 07-08 OV for the best season in the 2000s. If he manages 140+ points over a 82 game season while maintaining his good defensively play, hell be a tier above.

 

[Canovin]

That's an interesting standard seeing as how Ovie swept all of the awards.

65 goals and 112 points or if McDavid finished the season with a 50g and 145 point pace?

McDavid is more impressive

 

[McFlash97]

No way. Malkin's 2012 season was quite excellent. 50 goals and 109 points in the lowest scoring season post lockout.

Yah ok. McDavid crushed him in 78 games 3 seasons ago then put up a ridiculous 97 In 64 games..on pace for 130 points ..now he is on pace for 144 points.

109 points ....lol


Some posters man

 

[Midnight Judges]

View attachment 412836

Yah ok. McDavid crushed him in 78 games 3 seasons ago then put up a ridiculous 97 In 64 games..on pace for 130 points ..now he is on pace for 144 points.

109 points ....lol


Some posters man

There was a significant difference in league wide scoring between those seasons.

The scoring environment is an important factor.

And Malkin played 75 games BTW - but I don't think players missing games somehow bolsters their case. McDavid scoring 0 points in a game provides far more value to his team than McDavid in the press box. People rampantly get this wrong.

 

[Video Nasty]

In a shortened season there is a real disadvantage. Maintaining a productivity for 56 games is far easier than for 82. So there is less opportunity to do something amazing.

If people are consistent, he would get the same full credit that Crosby does for his 3 season stretch of missing 41, 60, and 12 games in a shortened season.

And realistically should get more because he will have played all the games and will sweep the awards (with a shot at a Rocket even).

This is a tough question. What is Jagr's peak season? I'm guessing minus Mario, so 1998-1999 or 1999-2000. He lost the Hart by a single vote in 1999-2000, but still won the Art Ross despite missing 19 games. On one hand, you're useless if you miss 1/4 of the season. On the other hand, still winning major hardware is impressive.

What is considered Crosby's best year? Crosby simply doesn't have a truly special regular season past his sophomore campaign. I understand he won his only other Art Ross by 17 points in that time frame, but that year looks a lot more ordinary if Malkin, Tavares, Zetterberg, Stamkos don't miss 22, 23, 37, and 45 games respectively. Minus Crosby, that's 4 of your top 5 PPG getters missing significant time, peppered in with Ovechkin's ho hum 79 in 78 and even #3 PPG Getzlaf dispelling the "Crosby scored a 100 when no one else scored 90" stipulation, if he plays even just a few more games to match Crosby's 80.

What is Crosby's peak? A PPG bolstered by playing minimal portions of a season?

Ovechkin's peak speaks for itself. 65 goals 112 points and an absolute game tilting ability for three consecutive campaigns where he was mere goals and points away from collecting all hardware. This is going to be hard to beat.

McDavid is well on his way though. Since his shortened rookie year and assuming nothing catastrophic happens in the remaining 22 games, in 5 seasons, we're talking about 2 Harts (and an additional nomination, as well as being top 5 every year), 3 Lindsays, 3 Art Rosses (also a repeat winner), 5 top 2 scoring finishes, 4 First Team All Star nods, 3 100 point seasons, 97 in 64, and 90-100 points in 56 games. A Rocket is also in contention.

Jagr has that insane run, half with Mario and half without. I think McDavid at least equals it. Ovechkin's 3 year run is also special, but in danger for short term runs.

In the end, McDavid could very well have the greatest collection of trophies outside the Big Four, and it will give him a very real case at #5 of all-time.

But we're talking single season. I think he has already toppled Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If people are consistent, he would get the same full credit that Crosby does for his 3 season stretch of missing 41, 60, and 12 games in a shortened season.

I would give McDavid far more credit because the short season doesn't reflect on McDavid as a player, whereas Crosby's fragility is directly tied to his attributes as a player.

 

[Video Nasty]

I would give McDavid far more credit because the short season doesn't reflect on McDavid as a player, whereas Crosby's fragility is directly tied to his attributes as a player.

Agreed. I was speaking more about the general population here.

We have a lot of posters who grew up with Crosby, so we're going to see many contradictions in the years to come.

 

[filinski77]

As far as Ovi's 07/08 goes:

	Points	Goals			Points	Goals
McDavid	60	21		Ovi	112	65
#2	50	21		#2	106	52
#10	37	16		#10	87	40
% over #2	20%	0%		% over #2	6%	25%
% over #10	62%	31%		% over #10	29%	63%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Some other things to consider:
- Ovi played in a full season, where maintaining high /gp stats is significantly harder
- Ovi had 150% more goals than #2 on his own team, and 62% more points than #2 on his own team
- The North this year is about a 7.5% higher scoring environment than the NHL in 07/08
- Comparing stats from a shortened intradivisional season is not reflective of what the results would be in a normal season. As of right now, McDavid has never scored points/gp or goals/gp that are as high as he is this season. There is no way to tell if this is due to progression or the oddity of this season.
- The guy is only playing the same 6 teams. Similar to the point above, this makes it impossible to pull any results from this. He has a 0.9 points/gp against the only teams in that division that are top-12 in GA/GP in the league. Yet he has a 2.125 point/gp on the other 4 teams.

 

[Crow]

He’ll pass Crosby and Malkin. People comparing points and goals in two very different scoring eras are out to lunch. Each one of these people should be compared to their peers, and not just a few of them.

 

[authentic]

Right now, Mcdavid is playing more dominant hockey than Crosby, Malkin or OV ever did. He leads the league in goals and assists and has mindblowing advanced stats.

I guess if he scores 100 points In 56 game season, itll be up there with 07-08 OV for the best season in the 2000s. If he manages 140+ points over a 82 game season while maintaining his good defensively play, hell be a tier above.

Can someone finally post these? I'm not denying them I just would like to see and how they compare to previous great seasons.

 

[Adamantoise]

Can someone finally post these? I'm not denying them I just would like to see and how they compare to previous great seasons.

My access to evolving-hockey has somehow stopped working, but EH posted them on his Twitter.





The best non-Mcdavid/Datsyuk seasons have been aruond 30 GAR for reference. Crosby in 10-13 was playing at around 35/82 pace though.

 

[authentic]

I would give McDavid far more credit because the short season doesn't reflect on McDavid as a player, whereas Crosby's fragility is directly tied to his attributes as a player.

A blindsided hit to the head, a random puck to the jaw and a misdiagnosed neck injury are directly tied to his attributes as a player?

 

[authentic]

My access to evolving-hockey has somehow stopped working, but EH posted them on his Twitter.





The best non-Mcdavid/Datsyuk seasons have been aruond 30 GAR for reference. Crosby in 10-13 was playing at around 35/82 pace though.

Okay makes sense. Those are more or less the 3 best overall players I've seen since those stats have been tracked since Malkin and Ovechkin definitely did not dominate defensively like Datsyuk.

 

[Adamantoise]

As far as Ovi's 07/08 goes:

	Points	Goals			Points	Goals
McDavid	60	21		Ovi	112	65
#2	50	21		#2	106	52
#10	37	16		#10	87	40
% over #2	20%	0%		% over #2	6%	25%
% over #10	62%	31%		% over #10	29%	63%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Some other things to consider:
- Ovi played in a full season, where maintaining high /gp stats is significantly harder
- Ovi had 150% more goals than #2 on his own team, and 62% more points than #2 on his own team
- The North this year is about a 7.5% higher scoring environment than the NHL in 07/08
- Comparing stats from a shortened intradivisional season is not reflective of what the results would be in a normal season. As of right now, McDavid has never scored points/gp or goals/gp that are as high as he is this season. There is no way to tell if this is due to progression or the oddity of this season.
- The guy is only playing the same 6 teams. Similar to the point above, this makes it impossible to pull any results from this. He has a 0.9 points/gp against the only teams in that division that are top-12 in GA/GP in the league. Yet he has a 2.125 point/gp on the other 4 teams.

McDavid has 50% more points than any other player in his division other than his own teammate and its the division with the best scoring talent in the league.

You can adjust using his opponents average ga/gp either from this season or last. But saying that there is notihing to be taken from this season just speaks to insecurity over your favourite player.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

OV is the last player to sweep all of the major awards.

IMHO his 08 season is the gold standard post 06-lockout.

I'm as big of a McDavid homer as the next Oiler fan, but the inter-divisional lockout shortened season will puts a lot of question marks next to this achievement.

He has to follow up next season with insanely gaudy numbers for the rest of the hockey world to fully accept it.

 

[filinski77]

McDavid has 50% more points than any other player in his division other than his own teammate and its the division with the best scoring talent in the league.

You can adjust using his opponents average ga/gp either from this season or last. But saying that there is notihing to be taken from this season just speaks to insecurity over your favourite player.

Based on last year (other than McDrai), the next best Canadian players were Matthews at 9th in points and Connor/Scheifele at 15th.

Even though Ovi's 3 year peak all came in slightly lower scoring environments, I'm only including that as something to consider, not the be-all-end-all.

If you can't see the difference between an 82 GP normal season and a 56 GP season playing only the same 6 teams, then that's not my fault. No-ones doubting that he wouldn't still be first in points if this was a normal season, but it 100% makes it harder to try and compare it to normal seasons. Nothing insecure about that. The exact same arguments can be used for Crosby and Malkin (I just don't have enough time to deep dive into them as well).