News Article: Who We Might Lose to Waivers

[stranger34]

If CMac and/or Conacher get claimed tomorrow I wouldn't mind one bit.

 

[crashthenet]

I would think Strait is the most vulnerable. Fairly legit 7. I think Conacher stays.

 

[bigd]

I would think Strait is the most vulnerable. Fairly legit 7. I think Conacher stays.

I agree but the only thing that might put off other GM's is his injury history. If he can stay healthy he's a legit #7 on most teams. Personally, if he has a good camp, I think he stays.

 

[PK Cronin]

So why do they have him?

He could be a better overall hockey player than Boulton, regardless of his point total. So he could provide more of [x] while still being a physical force. Clifford had 189 hits last season, so he could be there to wear down opponents (which is something I'm fine with and that's why I'd like Martin to be kept around).

How about when Scott decides to toss an elbow into John Tavares' face? He's old enough to handle that though.... right?

Scott would toss an elbow into his face regardless of who is on the roster. Having three fighters isn't going to stop that, at all.

Ok.... and we have two, so what is the problem? lol

No, we have Martin, Boulton, and Carkner. That's too much redundancy and too little skill to have in the lineup.

How many Lucic's are there in the league? If they didn't have Lucic, Chara and McQuiad (guys that can play), do you honestly think they would go at it without a heavy to protect Bergeron? Based on reality, I can safely say no.

I think it's their organizational style to find those guys who are more tough and sandpaper-ish. I don't know or think that they'd need a designated goon to protect Bergeron.

Ok... and who on the team will respond? See... you can't name a single team without a heavy, unless of course you say "regardless of XYZ". Show me a team without a heavy and I'll show you a team that gets pushed around the ice.

Just because I can't name a team without one heavyweight doesn't mean that they belong in the NHL still (or need to have multiple). Richards or Brown would respond if need be. They aren't huge guys, but that's my point. On a nightly basis you don't need the one guy to do all the dirty work. People don't mess with the Kings because half that roster will get in your face and start getting nasty. It's not always about fighting, it's about team toughness and their willingness to retaliate as a unit by laying the body and ensuring they hit every player you have.

No I'm not.... you're making the mistake of not counting certain players as deterrents just because they're actually pretty good players. The fault in that is, there are an extreme few of those players to go around. Every team has a heavy for protection. Carkner and Boulton are here to stay, you're just going to have to get over it.

Nobody is deterred by goons. It's just not a reality. Carkner and Boulton weren't in games early in the season, yet, our team wasn't being pushed around. Why not? Were they afraid of Boulton in the press box? No. It's because you simply don't need 3 goons to protect your team.

Crosby still gets cheap shotted, Tavares still gets cheap shotted, Ovechkin still gets cheap shotted, so does Giroux, you're just not going to stop it. I already went through a bunch of the videos from hockeyfights a few months back about this and watched the different teams to see who and why the goons were fighting. 95% of the time star players weren't on the ice or weren't involve, and it was just goons doing the goon dance. They were still fighting, just not in the capacity that people are claiming they do, and you'd think that there'd be at least some fights involving what they were brought in for...unless you're going to say they are such a deterrent that NOBODY would dare fight them...but that's a bit of a stretch.

And you were rebuffed on those. Carkner came to JT's defense.... and don't you think it was funny that Carkner was out there with JT? I wonder why that was? Imagine if he wasn't there at all..... like it was a few seasons ago when players were taking advantage every single night.

Carkner was out there with JT, to protect him...how did that work out? He didn't prevent Tavares from taking a devastating/dirty hit from Phaneuf. All he did was respond, which doesn't prevent your star player from going down. Also, worthy of a note, almost the whole line responded and went after Phaneuf for that hit. That's what I'd like to see more of, everyone getting riled up and protecting each other.

You say 6 games like it's no big deal. All it takes is one dirty hit to decimate this team for an entire year or longer. When you complain about guys like Carkner and Boulton, you're asking for that to happen.... and that pisses me off. I almost hope it happens so I can immediately shove it down the throats of all the Islander fans that have short memories and can't seem to grasp this. I mean, it's not like we haven't lived it before.... all you have to do is go back to the thread where we signed these guys and you will see how welcome they were.

No I'm not. Carkner and Boulton don't stop it from happening. You're living in this dream world where they are such big deterrents. If every team has a heavyweight, why would they be afraid of Carkner and Boulton? Are they Mike Tyson and Ali of hockey fighting? They simply respond to stupid stuff, they don't prevent it. So that injury you're talking about, yeah, that can still happen with them in the lineup.

I'll be sure to point out every time Carkner and Boulton are in the lineup and they are fighting for no reason, when they are the reason goals are let in, and when our finesse players are still getting railed. It still happens.

Who is going to fight John Scott? You seem to have totally blocked the 11-12 season out of your mind.

Why is anyone fighting John Scott? John Scott hits Tavares in a dirty way. Carkner goes to fight Scott. They fight, they both sit for 5 minutes. Now Scott isn't going to hit Tavares again? I don't understand the logic here.

The team needs to respond by getting nasty with everyone on the opposition. Take out a Marleau, Hertl, Thorton, Pavelski, Burns, etc. Get tough, don't run and hide behind Carkner or Boulton.

And again, I don't want all three of Martin, Boulton, and Carkner in the lineup. Having two is more than enough. As someone else said, don't we have someone in the AHL that can come up and fill that role if needed, someone who won't cost us a roster spot for the whole season. Also, I'd like to clarify that I understand Martin is not considered a heavyweight fighter, but he's more than enough to handle most things that happen on a game to game basis.

 

[Seph]

Who is going to fight John Scott? You seem to have totally blocked the 11-12 season out of your mind.

Who needs to fight him? Just easily skate past him for the scoring chance. The Blackhawks felt he wasn't worth a roster spot, and that Bollig would be sufficient. This is essentially the same as posters here saying we don't need Boulton, as Martin should be sufficient. Same with going with Clifford instead if a true heavyweight. Neither Clifford or Bollig fights more often than Martin, and they're pretty comparable in terms of fighting ability.

It's not the ability to fight that concerns me when it comes to toughness on this team. It's the lack of team toughness from top to bottom. Adding a goon to the 4th line or to the 6/7 slot on D does little to change that if you can't rely on them to take a regular shift and not be a liability.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Ilandher - I have to side with Jester on this. Team toughness was a significant problem not that long ago. It still isn't where it needs to be, IMO. We disagree about parts here or there, but a return to the days of being treated like the weakling on the playground need to be put down for good. This will require a heavyweight and several middle weights. Boulton is actually a better heavyweight in terms of hockey skill than most of them out there.

And when we play teams like Pittsburgh who went all-in on intent-to-injure players, most of the people here beating on Clutter and Martin will change their tune (well, maybe not now that I said this out loud, but still...)

 

[Seph]

Ilandher - I have to side with Jester on this. Team toughness was a significant problem not that long ago. It still isn't where it needs to be, IMO. We disagree about parts here or there, but a return to the days of being treated like the weakling on the playground need to be put down for good. This will require a heavyweight and several middle weights. Boulton is actually a better heavyweight in terms of hockey skill than most of them out there.

And when we play teams like Pittsburgh who went all-in on intent-to-injure players, most of the people here beating on Clutter and Martin will change their tune (well, maybe not now that I said this out loud, but still...)

You say out loud what you're typing?

 

[24diving]

If players such as JT appreciate players like Boults and Carkner, and praise the fact they have the skill players backs, thats good enough for me. It allows players like JT to play with more confidence, and not play skittish or scared -- I understand how logically people can sit here and say enforcers don't prevent cheap shots, and I agree to a point. Yet regardless of that, the skill guys on the ice feel more comfortable playing their game with such players in the lineup, and that should carry a lot of weight.

 

[PK Cronin]

Who needs to fight him? Just easily skate past him for the scoring chance. The Blackhawks felt he wasn't worth a roster spot, and that Bollig would be sufficient. This is essentially the same as posters here saying we don't need Boulton, as Martin should be sufficient. Same with going with Clifford instead if a true heavyweight. Neither Clifford or Bollig fights more often than Martin, and they're pretty comparable in terms of fighting ability.

It's not the ability to fight that concerns me when it comes to toughness on this team. It's the lack of team toughness from top to bottom. Adding a goon to the 4th line or to the 6/7 slot on D does little to change that if you can't rely on them to take a regular shift and not be a liability.

That's really well said, and the point I'm trying to make.

Ilandher - I have to side with Jester on this. Team toughness was a significant problem not that long ago. It still isn't where it needs to be, IMO. We disagree about parts here or there, but a return to the days of being treated like the weakling on the playground need to be put down for good. This will require a heavyweight and several middle weights. Boulton is actually a better heavyweight in terms of hockey skill than most of them out there.

And when we play teams like Pittsburgh who went all-in on intent-to-injure players, most of the people here beating on Clutter and Martin will change their tune (well, maybe not now that I said this out loud, but still...)

You can side with who you want, and I really think we're at a chicken vs the egg kind of thing with some of the debate.

I think we can all agree that team toughness would still help our organization quite a bit. Also, I haven't beaten up on Martin or Clutter, and I'm glad we have both. Clutter isn't really a fighter, but he definitely adds some toughness to the team. They can hit, they're physical, they aren't afraid to mix it up, they can get under the skin of the opposition. And most of all, they can both play hockey. Clutterbuck is a 3rd/4th line tweener, and Martin is a quality 4th liner. Having both of them is fine.

Do we really need Boulton and Carkner, to the point that we're afraid to waive them? Someone else mentioned using AHL call ups to fill in for physical nights, I'd be much more okay with that than wasting two roster spots on Boulton and Carkner. Pick one to keep, dump the other.

If players such as JT appreciate players like Boults and Carkner, and praise the fact they have the skill players backs, thats good enough for me. It allows players like JT to play with more confidence, and not play skittish or scared -- I understand how logically people can sit here and say enforcers don't prevent cheap shots, and I agree to a point. Yet regardless of that, the skill guys on the ice feel more comfortable playing their game with such players in the lineup, and that should carry a lot of weight.

What's he going to say, that he doesn't appreciate what they do? Any teammate would love it when their team backs them up and will try and protect them. I play beer league, and I like it when my teammates have my back.

I'm 5'11" and I weigh 145lbs, usually the smallest guy weight wise when I'm playing hockey. I don't feel any different about the way I play when I have tough guys with me or not, and I'd be shocked if Tavares played differently because they are in the lineup or not. If Tavares and company feel so much more confident and comfortable, why aren't they in there every night?

My argument is that the team does not need a bunch of heavyweights, one will suffice in today's NHL. Team toughness is what this team needs more of, from Tavares, Bailey, Nielsen, Strome, Nelson, Reinhart, and de Haan.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

You say out loud what you're typing?

I usually sing it, but only if the mrs. has her bagpipes in reach.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

You can side with who you want, and I really think we're at a chicken vs the egg kind of thing with some of the debate.

I think we can all agree that team toughness would still help our organization quite a bit. Also, I haven't beaten up on Martin or Clutter, and I'm glad we have both. Clutter isn't really a fighter, but he definitely adds some toughness to the team. They can hit, they're physical, they aren't afraid to mix it up, they can get under the skin of the opposition. And most of all, they can both play hockey. Clutterbuck is a 3rd/4th line tweener, and Martin is a quality 4th liner. Having both of them is fine.

Do we really need Boulton and Carkner, to the point that we're afraid to waive them? Someone else mentioned using AHL call ups to fill in for physical nights, I'd be much more okay with that than wasting two roster spots on Boulton and Carkner. Pick one to keep, dump the other.

No, I don't think we do, but Boulton is a part timer anyway so it is like having one and a half. It is almost too bad that Carkner can't play wing, but he is so slow these days...

 

[stranger34]

Ilandher - I have to side with Jester on this. Team toughness was a significant problem not that long ago. It still isn't where it needs to be, IMO. We disagree about parts here or there, but a return to the days of being treated like the weakling on the playground need to be put down for good. This will require a heavyweight and several middle weights. Boulton is actually a better heavyweight in terms of hockey skill than most of them out there.

And when we play teams like Pittsburgh who went all-in on intent-to-injure players, most of the people here beating on Clutter and Martin will change their tune (well, maybe not now that I said this out loud, but still...)

I think ILandHer's viewpoint on this one tells a nice story but isn't reflective of the nuances that take place on the ice. I did the golf event the Islanders host around this time every year 2 seasons ago and asked some of these guys point blank if it makes a difference to them when guys like Boulton and Carkner are dressed and they said absolutely it does.

It's human nature... wouldn't you feel more comfortable if you were playing a sport like hockey and you had guys out there like that who have your back?

 

[stranger34]

That's really well said, and the point I'm trying to make.



You can side with who you want, and I really think we're at a chicken vs the egg kind of thing with some of the debate.

I think we can all agree that team toughness would still help our organization quite a bit. Also, I haven't beaten up on Martin or Clutter, and I'm glad we have both. Clutter isn't really a fighter, but he definitely adds some toughness to the team. They can hit, they're physical, they aren't afraid to mix it up, they can get under the skin of the opposition. And most of all, they can both play hockey. Clutterbuck is a 3rd/4th line tweener, and Martin is a quality 4th liner. Having both of them is fine.

Do we really need Boulton and Carkner, to the point that we're afraid to waive them? Someone else mentioned using AHL call ups to fill in for physical nights, I'd be much more okay with that than wasting two roster spots on Boulton and Carkner. Pick one to keep, dump the other.



What's he going to say, that he doesn't appreciate what they do? Any teammate would love it when their team backs them up and will try and protect them. I play beer league, and I like it when my teammates have my back.

I'm 5'11" and I weigh 145lbs, usually the smallest guy weight wise when I'm playing hockey. I don't feel any different about the way I play when I have tough guys with me or not, and I'd be shocked if Tavares played differently because they are in the lineup or not. If Tavares and company feel so much more confident and comfortable, why aren't they in there every night?

My argument is that the team does not need a bunch of heavyweights, one will suffice in today's NHL. Team toughness is what this team needs more of, from Tavares, Bailey, Nielsen, Strome, Nelson, Reinhart, and de Haan.

They don't need them every night and they don't need both of them... they need Boulton about as often as he played last year.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I think ILandHer's viewpoint on this one tells a nice story but isn't reflective of the nuances that take place on the ice. I did the golf event the Islanders host around this time every year 2 seasons ago and asked some of these guys point blank if it makes a difference to them when guys like Boulton and Carkner are dressed and they said absolutely it does.

It's human nature... wouldn't you feel more comfortable if you were playing a sport like hockey and you had guys out there like that who have your back?

You aren't the only one who has spoken with pros about this either. It is an element of a close knit group, the kind you need if you want a solid contender. Downie and that other POS just entered our division this upcoming season. I suspect they are going to see a whole lot of Martin & Clutter in their rear view mirrors.

 

[PK Cronin]

You aren't the only one who has spoken with pros about this either. It is an element of a close knit group, the kind you need if you want a solid contender. Downie and that other POS just entered our division this upcoming season. I suspect they are going to see a whole lot of Martin & Clutter in their rear view mirrors.

I'll have to ask some if I ever get the chance. It's an interesting question, and I just don't see how it really impacts you as a player. I've obviously never played at that level, but I don't play any different and I don't expect anyone else to take care of my business.

I just find it hard to believe that players are going to give an honest answer while they're on the team with the other guys. They are trained with the PR people, so do we really think they aren't going to give the PR answer at a golf outing?

 

[stranger34]

I'll have to ask some if I ever get the chance. It's an interesting question, and I just don't see how it really impacts you as a player. I've obviously never played at that level, but I don't play any different and I don't expect anyone else to take care of my business.

I just find it hard to believe that players are going to give an honest answer while they're on the team with the other guys. They are trained with the PR people, so do we really think they aren't going to give the PR answer at a golf outing?

I think I agree with you 50/50. If they are playing a west coast team and the game won't be chippy then I don't think dressing a goon will make a difference.

If they are playing the Flyers and you know if you throw even a clean hit the other side may look for a fight... if you have boulton there to take the fight you throw the hit, if it's cory conacher in there instead of Boulton then maybe you don't throw the hit...

 

[PWJunior]

I think I agree with you 50/50. If they are playing a west coast team and the game won't be chippy then I don't think dressing a goon will make a difference.

If they are playing the Flyers and you know if you throw even a clean hit the other side may look for a fight... if you have boulton there to take the fight you throw the hit, if it's cory conacher in there instead of Boulton then maybe you don't throw the hit...

My first game at the Coli was against the Flyers when I was in HS. LaFontaine got run by someone and Ken Baumgartner jumped him instantaneously and beat the living piss out of him. As the Bomber was being escorted off the ice (Game Misconduct), Patty skated over to him and tapped him on the helmet and Baumgartner just turned to him and nodded - that moment in time has always been frozen in my head ever since. It was a different time and a different game then, but that Band of Brothers dynamic is always present in team sports.

 

[13th Floor]

My first game at the Coli was against the Flyers when I was in HS. LaFontaine got run by someone and Ken Baumgartner jumped him instantaneously and beat the living piss out of him. As the Bomber was being escorted off the ice (Game Misconduct), Patty skated over to him and tapped him on the helmet and Baumgartner just turned to him and nodded - that moment in time has always been frozen in my head ever since. It was a different time and a different game then, but that Band of Brothers dynamic is always present in team sports.

I read that first sentence so many times thinking that I went all this time not knowing you played for the Islanders... in high school!

Ugh, I need a drink.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Huh, you evaded the question. Would you rather sit Lee or Conacher as your 13th forward ?

Because its not a question that makes sense to me.

I don't want Conacher on the team at all, and I don't see Lee sitting.

I don't see Lee riding the pine OR playing in the AHL. I think he'll make the top nine.

Conacher, at best clears waivers and is an occasional call up.

So, in answer to your question, neither.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

My first game at the Coli was against the Flyers when I was in HS. LaFontaine got run by someone and Ken Baumgartner jumped him instantaneously and beat the living piss out of him. As the Bomber was being escorted off the ice (Game Misconduct), Patty skated over to him and tapped him on the helmet and Baumgartner just turned to him and nodded - that moment in time has always been frozen in my head ever since. It was a different time and a different game then, but that Band of Brothers dynamic is always present in team sports.

Same thing with JT and Gillies.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Because its not a question that makes sense to me.

I don't want Conacher on the team at all, and I don't see Lee sitting.

I don't see Lee riding the pine OR playing in the AHL. I think he'll make the top nine.


onacher, at best clears waivers and is an occasional call up.

So, in answer to your question, neither.

No point discussing with you, seems you got it all figured out, might as well call off camp !

PS not meaning to sound snarky with reply but this is just how it seems to me.

 

[Darth Milbury]

No point discussing with you, seems you got it all figured out, might as well call off camp !

PS not meaning to sound snarky with reply but this is just how it seems to me.

Well, you'll have to pardon me. I've been watching the Isles for a long time and I've had my fill of Peter Regins, Andy Hilberts, PM Bouchard, etc. Every year, we sign this fringe NHL assets to be filler - and I just don't see the point. its way past time that the Isles invest in a serious way in kids like Lee, Strome, etc.


You seem to be very focused on Conacher, perhaps seeing something in him. But, there is a reason he is now on his third NHL team. Bubble player, who is only signed for one year. I honestly don't know why you seem so concerned that a few of us wouldn't care if he is lost on waivers (and that is not to be snarky).


IMO, you're kind of making a mountain out of a molehill. Conacher asset, that's it. Where he winds up or does not wind up is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Well, you'll have to pardon me. I've been watching the Isles for a long time and I've had my fill of Peter Regins, Andy Hilberts, PM Bouchard, etc. Every year, we sign this fringe NHL assets to be filler - and I just don't see the point. its way past time that the Isles invest in a serious way in kids like Lee, Strome, etc.


You seem to be very focused on Conacher, perhaps seeing something in him. But, there is a reason he is now on his third NHL team. Bubble player, who is only signed for one year. I honestly don't know why you seem so concerned that a few of us wouldn't care if he is lost on waivers (and that is not to be snarky).


IMO, you're kind of making a mountain out of a molehill. Conacher asset, that's it. Where he winds up or does not wind up is pretty irrelevant.

This is not really about Conacher as much as it hoping that our young players have to compete for a job and not have it handed to them. You have filled out the roster on this team without giving players a chance to win a job in camp. Why keep mentioning Regin and Bouchard they are two totally different players. Maybe using them early in the season took the pressure off Strome and Lee and aided them development ? Again nobody gets in the way of anyone if the kids are deemed ready then you move out the guys that didn't make it. Simple really ! But until that time arrives I don't think you can count out anyone.

 

[Darth Milbury]

This is not really about Conacher as much as it hoping that our young players have to compete for a job and not have it handed to them. You have filled out the roster on this team without giving players a chance to win a job in camp. Why keep mentioning Regin and Bouchard they are two totally different players. Maybe using them early in the season took the pressure off Strome and Lee and aided them development ? Again nobody gets in the way of anyone if the kids are deemed ready then you move out the guys that didn't make it. Simple really ! But until that time arrives I don't think you can count out anyone.

So, you don't think I've even seen Lee, Strome, or Nelson play and have a sense of what they can do?

 

[First Blood]

So, you don't think I've even seen Lee, Strome, or Nelson play and have a sense of what they can do?

K, Conacher can actually play. Would rather him be a healthy scratch then Boulton or McDonald. Those 2 guys need to be waived