Who should win the Calder?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by HOCKEY_GURU, Nov 8, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. HOCKEY_GURU

    HOCKEY_GURU Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Messages:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    I know its early but so far my favorite is Phaneuf, 10 points in 17 games so far and playing very solid D, like a 10 year veteran, and his points have been timely enough thats its helped Calgary win many games otherwise they would have lost, I know one can easily argue for Croby or Ovechkin, and perhaps they are as deseving, but of no Fault of Ovechkin ( given an impossible task with a weak supporting cast) seems like no matter what he does washington still gonna be bad, and seems to me like Crosby often ends up with easy third assists ( not to say hes not playing great) just by the players that are around him... so for my money thats who Id vote for now.....
     
  2. Roughneck

    Roughneck Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Calgary
    Home Page:
    I can't argue against Phaneuf, but there is still alot of hockey to be played. Crosby is doing remarkable for an 18 year old in this league, and I acn't see him not winning if he leads rookies in scoring, by whatever margin. But I think if Dion can keep up with his scoring and get reasonable points (at least lead rookie d-men in goals for example) and make the highlightes with his hits, then there is a good chance he could pressure the two.

    Its unlikely as far as I'm concerned, I'd just be happy with a nomination for the guy, so I will definitely be pulling for him. Its still Crosby's to lose and Ovechkin's to win right now (he will get bonus points for playing on such a weak team).
     
  3. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY
    Crosby will win it unless he goes down with a serious injury.
     
  4. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,776
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Trophy Points:
    186

    Crosby will win it unless somebody takes it from him by vastly outplaying him. The hype is worth something, specifically that you can not tie him and hope to win, or even nudge slightly above him and expect to win. I am not saying it is right, though he earned that hype with amazing play over the past few years, but that is the reality.
     
  5. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY

    I just can't see that happening.
     
  6. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not sure what an easy third assist is but so far
    Almost all of Crosby's assists have been first assists and I can only think of one
    second assist.Most of them have been the key to the goal and not the actual
    goalscorer.
     
  7. The Frugal Gourmet

    The Frugal Gourmet Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,489
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New York, New York
    Home Page:
    I think Ovechkin's been more impressive than Crosby.

    Christ... 10 goals? Come on.
     
  8. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Anyway,the best player at the end of 82 games should win the Calder.Let's
    leave it at that for now. There's still some hockey to play.

    Had there been an NHL last year most all these contenders would have been sophomores this year.That's why it's a heck of a race.
     
  9. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,776
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Trophy Points:
    186
    For what it is worth, Crosby was 17 as recently as 3 months ago.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/players/3737/

    I would actually call them about equal right now, but I will give Crosby one edge, I am not entirely sure that AO would be up to this level when he was only a handful of months into his 18th birthday. But strictly looking at each of them, right now, it is a wash.
     
  10. chara

    chara Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ovechkin: 10 goals and on pace for 60 playing without the likes of Lemieux, Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, etc...

    He is Washington's MVP by a landslide. Same could not be said of any other rookie in the league.
     
  11. The Frugal Gourmet

    The Frugal Gourmet Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,489
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New York, New York
    Home Page:
    I can honestly say I'm floored by your argument that less experience makes a player a better rookie. Never heard that one before.

    And, I don't think it's a wash. AO looks better to me.
     
  12. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just another point-anybody notice how each time some has a 3 point night
    then all of a sudden there's a thread about how they will win some award.
    So why didn't the threadstarter make the thread when Phaneuf had 7 points in 1 less game.
     
  13. tick tock...tick tock...tick tock...tick tock...
     
  14. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    Crosby.

    He's been the most impressive rookie...
     
  15. Biscuit Bullet

    Biscuit Bullet Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    6,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Home Page:
    Crosby plays on a line with Recchi and Leclair, correct?

    AO plays with Halpern (career high 22 goals I think) and Willsie (AHL veteran, NHL newcomer)

    Even if Crosby gets 20-30 more points than Ovechkin, I think Ovechkin is deserving. The argument that he has no supporting cast relative to Crosby simply CANNOT be refuted.

    Also, being 2 years younger should not give SC any leverage in the race. He very well may turn out to be the better player by the time he's AO's age, but the Calder goes to the most impressive rookie performance. I would venture to say that AO would have 5-10 more points at this point playing on the Pens.

    I am not bashing Crosby or overhyping AO in any way whatsoever. I just think that producing a PPG on a team full of scrubs is more impressive than producing 1.5 PPG on a team loaded with skill and veterans who have scored hundreds of goals during their careers.
     
  16. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    74,264
    Likes Received:
    35,507
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    South Cackalacky
    Henrik Lundqvist is the best rookie in the NHL right now. Hopefully he gets enough starts to contend for the award.
     
  17. Nash

    Nash Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Vancouver
    You state that Ovechkin is doing well without gifted linemates. Then you make a point that he is his team's MVP by a landslide and that no other rookie is in the same boat. I guess that must be hard to be a standout on a sub par team. Wouldn't Crosby be a standout on the Capitals if he and Alex changed teams?

    By the way, most hockey columnists have said Crosby has been the best player (MVP) on the Penguins so far this season. It probably isn't as much of a landslide, but it is still very impressive considering his teammates' past accomplishments.

    Personally, I think that Ovechkin, Crosby, Phaneuf and Lundqvist are all pretty damn close right now and that it will likely be a race to the end. I think it is tougher for an 18 year old to adjust to the NHL and that Crosby will likely have a better second half then the other 3, but that's just my opinion. Also, European leagues tend to have shorter seasons and many Euro rookies tend to burn out a little towards the end of the year because they are not used to such a lengthy grind.
     
  18. Charge_Seven

    Charge_Seven Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The question is: How much should +/- come into play for the Calder?

    Phaneuf, Crosby, Vorobiev, Meszaros, Steen, Ovechkin, and Miller have all been great thus far (I apologize for leaving anyone out).

    But at the end of the season, if Crosby has 82 points, and owns a -45, and Steen has 74 points, but owns a +25, should Steen get consideration?

    I think we all know it'll be Crosby or Ovechkin, and that's fine, they're both phenominal, but how much should something like +/- come into play?
     
  19. salty justice

    salty justice Registered User

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    7,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Seabrook has been playing just as good as Phaneuf. Both guys look like they have been in the league for 5 years. But neither of them will be able to play so spectacular to take the spotlight away from Crosby.

    Unless something seriously goes wrong Crosby should easily win the votes. I like Ovechkin a lot more, but they would be shooting themselves in the foot if Crosby didnt win. If Crosby doesnt win it then it will go to AO, I dont think anyone else will be able to keep up with these two, including guys like Vorobiev and Steen who are fairly close behind at the moment.
     
  20. bert

    bert Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    16,713
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    Trophy Points:
    215
    Home Page:
    At this point Crosby and Ovechkin have been in a league of their own. While most seasons play like Phaneufs could warrent serious calder consideration this year he is simply outclassed.

    Phaneuf falls under the same category as the likes of Vorobiev, Seabrook, Richards, Steen, Meszaros, Miller, Wellwood, Perezhogin, Ward and many others. He has been a great rookie so far but Crosby and Ovechkin have been the best players on there respective teams. Phaneuf hasnt even been the best defenseman on Calgary.
     
  21. Claypool_*

    Claypool_* Guest

    I Love how peoples excuse for Crosby to NOT get the Calder is because he plays with experienced veterans. Crosby is the Penguins bets player too ya know. :biglaugh:
     
  22. pitthockey81

    pitthockey81 Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    For PR sake in the league it is really a two man race no matter what anyone says. Picking any other player would hurt the league as far as outsider perspective is concerned since Crosby and Ovechkin are considered the Labron James type players of the NHL.

    Do you go with Ovechkin's goal scoring ability, or Crosby's great vision and passing ability?

    My vote goes to Crosby. Ask anyone who has watched him play more than once, he does things that don't often show up on the scoresheet (ie, drew 7 penalties in a recent game)
     
  23. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    74,264
    Likes Received:
    35,507
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    South Cackalacky
    Thankfully the media vote on the Calder trophy and it isn't just chosen by the league. Lindros didn't even get a sniff of the award in 1993, he was something like 4th in the voting. Which shows that hype only goes so far with the media, and hopefully the same thing will happen this year.

    Here's the best argument for Lundqvist: if the season were to end now, it's very likely he would be a Vezina trophy nominee. No one else, not Crosby, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, Vorobiev, or anyone, is as close to the top of the NHL heap at their position as Lundqvist is.
     
  24. Jester

    Jester Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    34,075
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    St. Andrews
    normally you make very good arguments, but you have to know that has NOTHING to do with whether a player does or does not deserve the Calder. A rookie is a rookie, the comparison begins and ends there... shouldn't be affected by how old they are when they are rookies. if that was the case, explain Ichiro?

    IMO, if Ovechkin and Crosby end with the same point total then Ovechkin CLEARLY deserves the Calder over Crosby given the difference in talent that the two players are playing with.
     
  25. PatrickRoy

    PatrickRoy Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Good Old USA
    Pitthockey81,
    I would have been shocked if you had said anyone other than Crosby. :)

    Since everyone keeps suggesting that Crosby is the Pens best player are you Pen fans admitting that your rebuilding w/ overprice vets has been a bust??
    I mean to say Crosby is better than the likes of Mario,Plaffy etc is a huge statement.

    The winner of the Calder is months away and could go in any direction yet this arguement of Crosby /Ovechkin goes on.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"