Speculation: Who, on the Team, Has Checked Out?

[CaptainChef]

Simplest explanation is probably the correct one in the case. Ladd and Buff could best be described as the formal and informal leaders of the Jets. Both are without contract, and it appears more likely than not at this point that they'll both be elsewhere come 2016-17. While they're both pros, it would be naive to think that being in limbo wouldn't take some of the wind out of their sails. Even the vaguest sense that they don't have their hearts in it will likely create a ripple effect in the room.

I normally hate trying to dissect the psychology of pro sports (99% of it is just narrative), but I've felt since November that there's a sense of malaise with this team that just hasn't gone away. It's the same feeling I had with this team in the few months before Noel got fired.

The overall talent on this roster is not bad relative to the rest of the NHL; there's something more than lack of talent dragging this team down.

Yep I think you're onto something there. Ladd, Buff & a few teammates plus wives are pretty close I suspect & the fact that they is is really getting them all down a bit knowing that they won't likely be together next year

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

LOL @ Myers, Stafford or Burmi being the "problem".

Think that Buff and Ladd are clearly part of the issue. Buff's play's been meh this year. Ladd's has been pretty bad.
i wouldn't be shocked if our punchingbag, Mark Stuart, was also an issue.

Disagree with the bolded. Fewer highlight reel moments but much more solid all around play.

 

[CaptainChef]

Exactly - and leadership isn't always about emotion and "getting fired up". Maybe he's "buying in" to Maurice's style more by being measured in his responses and keeping calm in the face of adversity?

Stafford publicly complained about the reffing. That was a no-no that could come back and hurt a team that's already hurt by bad reffing...

Well good on him -- its about time someone says something because the Jets are only half the problem & IMO its about time somebody starts complaining about it to the league. Seriously, the refs can't possibly pick on the Jets any more than they have already.

 

[CaptainChef]

I've always felt like Ladd doesn't give a crap. He just doesn't give me captain vibes at all.

Wheeler you can genuinely tell the guy gives a crap and is perfect captain material.

Yes Ladd might be an OK leader, but I've never got that vibe from him either. Wheels, on the other hand may or may not be a good leader -- leaders have to deal with their teammates, not spout off to the media. Now a little bit of emotion though, yea I like that about Wheeler. Eventually I'm pegging Scheif or Lowry into that role, but Wheels will probably be it next year

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

In terms of fowards & the seeming effort I watch game in game out:

1. Wheeler A+
2. Perrault A
3. Little A
4. Scheifele A
5. Stafford A
6. Thorburn B
7. Ladd B
8. Burmistrov B
9. Copp C
10. Lowry C
11. Ehlers C
12. Armia C

Peluso doesn't play enough to warrant a ranking. I think Ladd's effort has been good, but certainly not exceptional. The captain should always be an A+. As for the sophmores / rookies, that's what you get when doing with players with so little experience. Tlusky, Stepniak, Frolik combined would certainly have outperformed Copp, Ehlers & Armia.

The forwards however aren't the problem. The vets are all putting in the effort. The younger crew are doing their best. It's the defensemen that are the problem

I won't bother with a rating. The Jets right side is supposed to be the deepest in the league, with Byfuglien being one of the alleged premiere defensemen in the league, yet he or ANY of the D-core have yet to be one of any games 3 stars once this season.

They all take too many penalties. They all expend too much effort attempting offense at the expense of their defensive responsibilities, They all rely more on their stick than their skating, hence the penalties. No one clears the crease, they are all play beneath their potential on the boards.

First off get the A off Stuart. He's the team leader on defense? Hardly. Byfuglien should be the man. Understand me though, I'm not saying his play deserves a letter, I'm saying a player of his stature in the league should be playing a much larger leadership role that what he ever has displayed.

If Hamonic ever arrives here, he should immediately be awarded a letter. He's exactly what this team needs, a true leader on the back end.

 

[Mighty Joe Moon]

Interesting.

I have my own theories on what Chevy was trying to accomplish with this year's Jets (don't really feel like sharing them in detail, at least not in this thread), but I wonder if there's a bit a brewing resentment from the veterans over how things have progressed from this past summer onwards.

With July as a starting point, It seems obvious to me.

Buff and Ladd tasted the playoffs last year, and a couple of vets that helped push them there aren't around anymore. The Jets offer wasn't that far off on what Frolik was asking for, and Stempniak seemed like he wanted to come back. Frolik would have if the money was there. For an extra $2mil in contract money over a year or two, that lineup stays intact and gets another crack. Say what you will about Tlusty, but he's better than Peluso or Thorburn. Rookies come in for injuries. I certainly believed the Jets could have made it a series against Anaheim and I have no doubts the team believed it as well. So now we got two guys age 30, looking for contracts, maybe only 3-5 years left in their careers, hoping for another cup....and the team you're on takes an obvious step back. Are they gonna wanna wait for 2019? I realise signing Frolik changes the salary cap situation for the team, but that isn't any one player's problem. That's on the GM.
Seems obvious who would have a chip on their shoulder and why, If that's the narrative we're talking about.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

With July as a starting point, It seems obvious to me.

Buff and Ladd tasted the playoffs last year, and a couple of vets that helped push them there aren't around anymore. The Jets offer wasn't that far off on what Frolik was asking for, and Stempniak seemed like he wanted to come back. Frolik would have if the money was there. For an extra $2mil in contract money over a year or two, that lineup stays intact and gets another crack. Say what you will about Tlusty, but he's better than Peluso or Thorburn. Rookies come in for injuries. I certainly believed the Jets could have made it a series against Anaheim and I have no doubts the team believed it as well. So now we got two guys age 30, looking for contracts, maybe only 3-5 years left in their careers, hoping for another cup....and the team you're on takes an obvious step back. Are they gonna wanna wait for 2019? I realise signing Frolik changes the salary cap situation for the team, but that isn't any one player's problem. That's on the GM.
Seems obvious who would have a chip on their shoulder and why, If that's the narrative we're talking about.

Completely agree. You know what breeds a winning atmosphere? Winning!! Last years team gelled & displayed everything one could hope for in terms of effort game in & game out. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

That team was broken up. This one is a shell of what it was last season.

They should have made one change. Slater out & Ehlers in.

 

[Derfel*]

Anyone consider Wheeler was calling out the younger guys who don't have the stamina/conditioning they should in the 3rd period? Just a thought.

 

[Moon Man]

I think a large part of their comments involve Ladd. Has he said anything about their comments? Has he agreed with or denied them? Is this not what Captains (unless they're silent leaders) are supposed to do?

 

[Daximus]

Anyone consider Wheeler was calling out the younger guys who don't have the stamina/conditioning they should in the 3rd period? Just a thought.

Its not just the young guys running out of gas.

 

[Thai jet*]

I am doubtfull Wheeler is calling out a fellow clique/leadership member(s). More likely pissed Ladd taken from his buddies' line. Locker room politics 101 says the token Russian.

 

[Thai jet*]

I am doubtfull Wheeler is calling out a fellow clique/leadership member(s). More likely pissed Ladd taken from his buddies' line. Locker room politics 101 says the token Russian.

In his post game coach said it was not about being negative but more about everyone buying into the Jet game. Also how they prepare, any big partiers on this team?

 

[Derfel*]

Wheeler certainly walked back his comments in the post-game today - maybe got a talking to from management, maybe had a heart-to-heart with the players involved?

 

[raideralex99]

[/B]

Well good on him -- its about time someone says something because the Jets are only half the problem & IMO its about time somebody starts complaining about it to the league. Seriously, the refs can't possibly pick on the Jets any more than they have already.

Exactly.
Sharks play Flames they only get one pp. Next game

Sharks play Jets they get SIX pps. Next game

Sharks play Oilers they only get one pp.

 

[veganhunter]

Exactly.
Sharks play Flames they only get one pp. Next game

Sharks play Jets they get SIX pps. Next game

Sharks play Oilers they only get one pp.

What a crock, at bare minimum 4 of those penalties were VERY well earned. The persecution complex and excuse making for our long standing penalty problem is, frankly, pretty embarrassing.

 

[raideralex99]

What a crock, at bare minimum 4 of those penalties were VERY well earned. The persecution complex and excuse making for our long standing penalty problem is, frankly, pretty embarrassing.

Not making excuses ... just asking why they call so many penalties. I have seen lots of games where the refs let the teams play as long as the sticks are down and scoring chances are not taken away. To quote Cherry ... "Let them play hockey!"
The problem with penalties it disrupts the lines and flow of the game.

There was 7 other NHL games tonight 4 of them had only 2 penalties in the 3rd period the other 3 games only 1 penalty in the 3rd period but the Jets game had SEVEN penalties ... really???
If you are going to call everything why did the refs miss 2 interference calls on the first and last Preds goals. How in the world do you miss the play where Buff got injuried??? Please don't tell me I'm embarrassing for calling out the refs. They are the ones who are embarrassing.

 

[Guerzy]

With July as a starting point, It seems obvious to me.

Buff and Ladd tasted the playoffs last year, and a couple of vets that helped push them there aren't around anymore. The Jets offer wasn't that far off on what Frolik was asking for, and Stempniak seemed like he wanted to come back. Frolik would have if the money was there. For an extra $2mil in contract money over a year or two, that lineup stays intact and gets another crack. Say what you will about Tlusty, but he's better than Peluso or Thorburn. Rookies come in for injuries. I certainly believed the Jets could have made it a series against Anaheim and I have no doubts the team believed it as well. So now we got two guys age 30, looking for contracts, maybe only 3-5 years left in their careers, hoping for another cup....and the team you're on takes an obvious step back. Are they gonna wanna wait for 2019? I realise signing Frolik changes the salary cap situation for the team, but that isn't any one player's problem. That's on the GM.
Seems obvious who would have a chip on their shoulder and why, If that's the narrative we're talking about.

Well said.

As for Wheeler's comments, I'm obviously not sure who they were directed at, but I think as a whole the comments were made out of frustration and Wheeler is a heart on his sleeve, emotional guy. I do not for a second think his comments were directed at Ladd (or Byfuglien). Wheeler will speak his mind in the room (going by Little's comments) and to the media as we know, but only to a certain extent. Wheeler is a pro. As far as I am concerned this is being read far too much into here and there is no damn way Blake is taking a shot at Andrew via the media. No damn way.

 

[Huffer]

/devil's advocate ... if he's figured it all out already, then he's not open to change that's needed. And who's to say his way is right?

It's not like wheeler didn't play like crap the last game, but he's super vocal about 'the room' needing to be better.

/end devils advocate

i think it's just as likely he's frustrated and he's not afraid to say words. that's how he reacts. others react differently. i think what amazingchris posted is probably just as likely as anyone else's thoughts.

I'm not saying that everyone in the room has to do everything Wheeler does, or that Wheeler thinks that either.

Just saying that it's possible that Wheeler is doing all the things he thinks he needs to do to win games and he's looking around the room and others aren't. Regardless of how each individual approaches it, if you're doing all the things to get yourself ready physically and mentally every game and you see that others are not, that's a problem.

Also not saying this is what "is" happening, just an interpretation of his message.

 

[scelaton]

Well said.

As for Wheeler's comments, I'm obviously not sure who they were directed at, but I think as a whole the comments were made out of frustration and Wheeler is a heart on his sleeve, emotional guy. I do not for a second think his comments were directed at Ladd (or Byfuglien). Wheeler will speak his mind in the room (going by Little's comments) and to the media as we know, but only to a certain extent. Wheeler is a pro. As far as I am concerned this is being read far too much into here and there is no damn way Blake is taking a shot at Andrew via the media. No damn way.

Agree completely. I watched the two of them closely away from the play last night. Wheeler was talking a lot to and very physically demonstrative with Ladd (in a good way). I believe Wheeler has Ladd's support for being the spokesman for the team, because Ladd is in a very, very difficult position. He is not playing his best, for reasons we don't understand, but, more importantly, he is a Captain without a secure future with the team, and everyone knows it.

 

[veganhunter]

Not making excuses ... just asking why they call so many penalties. I have seen lots of games where the refs let the teams play as long as the sticks are down and scoring chances are not taken away. To quote Cherry ... "Let them play hockey!"
The problem with penalties it disrupts the lines and flow of the game.

There was 7 other NHL games tonight 4 of them had only 2 penalties in the 3rd period the other 3 games only 1 penalty in the 3rd period but the Jets game had SEVEN penalties ... really???
If you are going to call everything why did the refs miss 2 interference calls on the first and last Preds goals. How in the world do you miss the play where Buff got injuried??? Please don't tell me I'm embarrassing for calling out the refs. They are the ones who are embarrassing.

Your and many others homerism is making you belive and see things that don't exist

There is no conspiracy against the Winnipeg Jets, sorry. They just happen to take an s*** of undisciplined penalties.

Interference penalties get missed a lot, guess which penalties don't? Lazy stick penalties, which happen to be our speciality. The play on Buff was not a penalty plain and simple.

Ps. Sorry about the grammar and spelling...On my phone.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Your and many others homerism is making you belive and see things that don't exist

There is no conspiracy against the Winnipeg Jets, sorry. They just happen to take an s*** of undisciplined penalties.

Interference penalties get missed a lot, guess which penalties don't? Lazy stick penalties, which happen to be our speciality. The play on Buff was not a penalty plain and simple.

Completely agree. I've noticed all season that we take an incredible amount of lazy penalties. There are so many that we DON'T get called for that sometimes I think the refs have a hard time holding back because we would be on a perpetual PK.

It's always the lazy ones that drive me the craziest. The ones where you could skate harder or position better instead of reaching with a stick. So many of our lazy penalties have the Jets player coasting and reaching.

 

[gbill2004*]

I think Ladd has checked out. Wheeler has now become the teams leader in my opinion. Strip the C off Ladd's jersey and put it on Wheeler's. Jets need a real leader and not some pretty boy who spews off cliché's.

 

[gbill2004*]

Well said.

As for Wheeler's comments, I'm obviously not sure who they were directed at, but I think as a whole the comments were made out of frustration and Wheeler is a heart on his sleeve, emotional guy. I do not for a second think his comments were directed at Ladd (or Byfuglien). Wheeler will speak his mind in the room (going by Little's comments) and to the media as we know, but only to a certain extent. Wheeler is a pro. As far as I am concerned this is being read far too much into here and there is no damn way Blake is taking a shot at Andrew via the media. No damn way.

I think Wheeler's comments were directed at Ladd.

 

[sipowicz]

I think Wheeler's comments were directed at Ladd.

obviously worked with Ladd having one of his best games in a very long time!

 

[Derfel*]

obviously worked with Ladd having one of his best games in a very long time!

If it was directed at Ladd (which I'm not convinced it was, or at least alone) it may have worked, or it may have shown Wheeler was wrong in what he said. Ladd showed effort, grit and skill last night. So did Wheeler... but he also took a horrible penalty at the very worst time.