Who might Dubas trade first, Marner or Nylander?

[egd27]

can you blame them ?

Dubas goes out and signs JT to a massive deal then expected our kids who dragged us out of toilet to take discounts . Willie stood firm and got a few hundred K more than his comparable's then Mathews and Marner looked at JT and said we're better than him and used his deal as the floor ,

Matthew camp likely said (correctly) that he is more valuable than JT and should be compensated as such. Dubas agreed.

Marner camp likely said (correctly) that he is the top point producer on the team and should be in a similar income bracket to JT & AM. Dubas agreed.

Here we are with with three $11M forwards.

And yet the HF Contract Experts can seem to grasp such a simple and obvious scenario.

 

[kb]

I'm so glad this thread is about who to trade, and not personal agendas where the GM's name keeps coming up.

 

[egd27]

so where was Marner's massive offer sheet ?

It was reported that there were 2 offer sheets for Marner. I wonder why he didn't sign them?

oh wait..........

 

[Dekes For Days]

it was reported that no one was willing to offer sheet Marner at the money and term he wanted

It was reported that multiple teams presented Marner/his agent with an offer sheet. Marner wanted to stay in Toronto.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthew camp likely said (correctly) that he is more valuable than JT and should be compensated as such.
Marner camp likely said (correctly) that he is the top point producer on the team and should be in a similar income bracket to JT & AM.

UFA contracts have nothing to do with post-ELC contracts. They had their own post-ELC comparables, that they fit properly within.

 

[egd27]

I'm so glad this thread is about who to trade, and not personal agendas where the GM's name keeps coming up.

Click the "Ignore Thread" link (above the first post on any page, right side)

 

[hotpaws]

I'm so glad this thread is about who to trade, and not personal agendas where the GM's name keeps coming up.

Why do you care so much about what people think of the Dube ?

 

[hotpaws]

It was reported that multiple teams presented Marner/his agent with an offer sheet. Marner wanted to stay in Toronto.

oh , so it's now Marner actually had these huge offer sheets which were much larger than what he signed for but he wanted to stay in Toronto

do you even believe a 1/4 of the bs you post on these boards ?

 

[egd27]

UFA contracts have nothing to do with post-ELC contracts. They had their own post-ELC comparables, that they fit properly within.

Sure......the Matthews & Marner camps never referenced the JT contract in their negotiations. I thought you claimed to understand how negotiations worked?

BTW...since you seem to respond to almost every post I make, I'm still waiting for how you know what sources Marc Savard does or does not have.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I thought you claimed to understand how negotiations worked?

Yeah, I do. UFA contracts have no relevance to post-ELC contracts. Their contracts are based on post-ELC comparables.

what sources Marc Savard does or does not have.

Savard is not a reporter. Savard is not an insider. Savard was not in the NHL at that point. Savard has no connections to the Leafs. His random claims on twitter is not a valid source.

 

[egd27]

It was reported that multiple teams presented Marner/his agent with an offer sheet. Marner wanted to stay in Toronto.

So these offer sheets were so amazing that Marner was worried about Kid Kyle not matching them and he would have to leave Toronto?

Or could it be that he knew he could extract more out of the Leafs than any offer sheet that was presented given the way contract negotiations had been handled under Dubas?

I have a pretty good idea which option most objective people would think was more likely.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So these offer sheets were so amazing that Marner was worried about Kid Kyle not matching them and he would have to leave Toronto?

He didn't want to leave Toronto, so he continued negotiating. You don't sign the offer sheet unless you're prepared to leave.

 

[Bomber0104]

"I know who Marc Savard knows and what he knows!" - Random HFboards user

 

[Notsince67]

Bench Nylander for a year without pay until he comes to his senses. Leafs literally held all the leverage. Dubas squandered it, and thus the Marner contract, who IMO is overpaid by 3 million.

3 million eh? Put up your comparables.

 

[HC7]

Despite the question I voted Mitch cause his contract is ass and he's not engaged in the playoffs.

Marner for Ekblad +
Sign Pietrangelo

 

[Dekes For Days]

"I know who Marc Savard knows and what he knows!" - Random HFboards user

You're the one claiming that, so that you can use opinions from a random on twitter as your source, while you mock actual reports and insider information from actual valid sources when it doesn't suit your argument.

 

[egd27]

Savard is not a reporter. Savard is not an insider. Savard was not in the NHL at that point. Savard has no connections to the Leafs. His random claims on twitter is not a valid source

Ok, he's not a reporter.

Ok, he's not an insider (a made up term by anyway)

Ok, he was not in the NHL at that point. (neither are most "insiders" for that matter)

I'll concede all these points if it helps.

What I'm wondering is how you know "Savard has no connections to the Leafs" (or the Nylander camp)?

How do you know, who Savard is connected or not connected to?

 

[Bomber0104]

You're the one claiming that, so that you can use opinions from a random on twitter as your source, while you mock actual reports and insider information from actual valid sources when it doesn't suit your argument.

Tell us all more about who Marc Savard knows bud.

It's fascinating stuff.

 

[seanlinden]

Matthew camp likely said (correctly) that he is more valuable than JT and should be compensated as such. Dubas agreed.

Marner camp likely said (correctly) that he is the top point producer on the team and should be in a similar income bracket to JT & AM. Dubas agreed.

Here we are with with three $11M forwards.

And yet the HF Contract Experts can seem to grasp such a simple and obvious scenario.

JT was of course absolutely a contributing factor.

What Dubas needed to do however -- is simply explain to Matthews that he is an RFA, not a UFA. Tavares was added without giving up a single draft pick. Any team who wants to sign Matthews had to do so with the understanding that it's also going to cost them 4 first round picks.

All he had to do was look back at John Tavares himself -- advertised as a generational player (he literally re-wrote the rule-book) -- who paid his dues with a $5.5m 6 year deal to go to UFA, and strike his payday; or slightly more recently, Steven Stamkos, who in his sophomore season won the Rocket, and finished 5th in league scoring.

The concept that RFAs get paid less per production than UFAs simply seemed to evade Kyle Dubas.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How do you know, who Savard is connected or not connected to?

You don't just randomly walk into connections and insider information about contract negotiations for teams and players you had no connection to. I don't know the personal lives of many randoms on twitter. That doesn't mean we can use them as valid sources for information.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I think it would be Mitch although it’s tough. I don’t think either if I’m being honest.

When it came time to sign Matthews/Marner all the media said it could never be done they’d have to trade one.

We’ve seen Dubas time and time again pull something out of left field. I think the most likely answer on how they make room for Pietrangelo is trading Andersen. I think they have some faith in Campbell and know they can add someone cost-effective like Greiss in free agency. Plus we also have Woll in the pipeline.

And as much as the pundits are saying that no one will trade with the Leafs because they will all know that any cap-clearing move is to get Pietrangelo, there are plenty of GMs in similar positions who need to make moves to cut salary and still hit the cap floor.

The Leafs have a lot of contracts that were bonus laden and have very little cash payable compared to the cap hits. But I guess that helps make the strongest case for Mitch to be dealt...

 

[CertifiedGoat]

please show us your work

You can easily go look at wingers in the league and figure if he is top 5 or not.

He's not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What Dubas needed to do however -- is simply explain to Matthews that he is an RFA, not a UFA.

Matthews signed an RFA contract within his post-ELC comparables.

All he had to do was look back at John Tavares himself -- advertised as a generational player (he literally re-wrote the rule-book) -- who paid his dues with a $5.5m 6 year deal to go to UFA

Tavares was not considered a generational player in the NHL (or even when drafted). His level of play and production prior to signing his post-ELC contract was more in the Nylander tier than Matthews/Marner.

The concept that RFAs get paid less per production than UFAs simply seemed to evade Kyle Dubas.

He understands this perfectly well.

 

[al secord]

Click the "Ignore Thread" link (above the first post on any page, right side)

Direct yourself to the "stay on topic" portion of the rules.

 

[al secord]

Why do you care so much about what people think of the Dube ?

Might have something to do with being the GM of the team who's board you happen to be on. To you, he's that young, good looking, successful, smart man that you can't help but envy. Your jealousy shines like a diamond mine.